questions changing water pump on Mk2 with AC and power steering

[CRSMP5]

i turn crank ccw by alt if belts installed.. or stick 2 allen bolts in crank pully, stick screw driver between and turn.. but never ccw on crank bolt...

experiance on ccw.. not in a book.. seen too many idiots screw up... its like those who put a wheel on snug by bad habbit then forgetting to torque them... never snug it down till your to the point of torquing them.. or installing a drain plug and not tighten at same moment.. you will soon or a later forget.. then things fall out/off...

so start with simple rules life good...
1.) never turn crank bolt ccw...
2.) never put drain plug in unless tight right now
3.) never snug down or install all lugs till you torque time..

just good rules to live by if you work on cars...

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

i turn crank ccw by alt if belts installed.. or stick 2 allen bolts in crank pully, stick screw driver between and turn.. but never ccw on crank bolt...

its bad habit to put things on crank bolts.. to forget wrench on it, hitting key.. that will ruin a good day.. breaks that bolt loose so nicely...

key on pump shaft... how else can you find #1 inside the fuel pump?? key to pully finds pumps tdc... then those brackets bolt to engines all in same way with titch of slop.. why ok if you got to turn the crank a titch this way or that to get pin out when at tdc is allowed.. but that hole is from the 77 1.5 thru aaz... it does not move, change so on... the flywheel tdc mark should line up with it... if it does not.. something is wrong...

mismatched parts.. aaz stuff on 1.6... d style tdi sprocket.. are the only ways it will not line up unless its sprocket is failing...

so install the pump pin and see if the flywheel can read tdc... if not... ignore me if you want... but i will say told ya so if it does fail and i see it...

I disconnected the battery so I can't spin the motor by accident. It did not take much torque to turn crankshaft bolt CCW and felt safe to me. I will convert to safer practice from now on.

[CRSMP5]

all i am saying.. ive watched a many employee screw this up thru my youth... father had a few wizbangs in the 80s show me what not to do...

but the pump pin to tdc.. that self lesson there... i was able to install new pully as no damage to crank yet.. ive had ones with damaged cranks be able to be saved with red loctite.. when it sets up forms a nice hard spot to fill the imperfect crank.. but a tdi style crank sproclet is best fix if its really damaged..

but to catch it now.. does not damage head/valves.. and if they do not line up.. you have to find out why...

[theman53]

If I do it right, i.e.

1 flywheel at TDC
2 cam plate in cam slot
3 IP pin in

It ends up IP is at the end of adjustment and can't advance to spec timing.

What am ai doing wrong?

Tools are bought and fit snug

You don't have the "cam sprocket is loose" in that description.

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

If I do it right, i.e.

1 flywheel at TDC
2 cam plate in cam slot
3 IP pin in

It ends up IP is at the end of adjustment and can't advance to spec timing.

What am ai doing wrong?

Tools are bought and fit snug

You don't have the "cam sprocket is loose" in that description.

 I think you hit the nail on the head. I was trying to save some work but it's the wrong way to do it.

 Timing belt and tensioner has a little over 30 k on it. I have a new timing belt and tensioner. Should I throw that in?

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

New timing belt and tensioner and it's running better than ever. The old tensioner w 30k had a little play. Maybe belt tension was too tight? On the new belt I made the tension slightly less (by feel). Wish I have a belt tension gauge.
I set the timing more advanced to 1.03 mm.

Tried the Libby tension method and cam timing was off after belt tensioning and had to redo. Don't know what I did wrong.

A while ago, I made this IP sprocket puller out of 020 tranny bell housing bolts and a bracket I had laying around and used it on the car the first time and it worked great! The ram bolt is pointy already and fit the IP shaft dimple perfectly.

 

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

Another view of the puller.

Thanks for all the help! Everything is all lined up this time.
FW TDC
Cam plate in cam slot
Pin in IP sprocket
timing set to 1.03 mm

 

[libbydiesel]

Here's my procedure for easily setting the cam timing precisely and accurately every time.  I'm sure I've posted it before, but here it is reiterated.

Remove the cam sprocket.
Clean the cam sprocket and the taper on the end of the cam with brake clean.  
Place the crank at TDC.
Place the cam at TDC using the cam lock and install equal feeler gauges on either side so that it is both snug and parallel to the head.
Install the pump lock in the pump sprocket.  
Place the timing belt on the engine correctly around the crank, int shaft, tensioner and pump sprockets.  
Place the cam sprocket into the remaining part of the belt and put it onto the cam taper.
Install the bolt onto the cam sprocket until it is snug but the cam sprocket can still turn easily.
Remove the pump lock.
Rotate the crank counter clockwise a few degrees (maybe 10°) and then rotate back to TDC without going past - this step is of utmost importance as it places any belt slack at the tensioner.
Tension the belt using the correct VW tension measuring tool on a 1.6 or the spring loaded tensioner on a 1.9.
Check to be sure the crank has not moved - if it has, then you did not load the slack at the tensioner correctly.
Tighten cam bolt to 25 ft-lbs.
Remove cam lock and feeler gauges.
Hold the cam sprocket by hand (or use a pulley holder if you are weak) and torque to 45 ft-lbs (I know the book says 33 ft-lbs but IMO it is not enough).
Tap the cam bolt with a hammer and recheck the torque.  
Rotate the crank two full rotations back to TDC without going past and double-check the cam timing with the bar and feelers.

Tried the Libby tension method and cam timing was off after belt tensioning and had to redo. Don't know what I did wrong.

The cam sprocket bolt should be torqued AFTER you tension the belt.  If the correct order is used the cam timing will be correct.  

[CRSMP5]

i do not tighten the cam bolt till tenson acheived... else willl move cam timming when you do.. why the cam gear spins free... but unless you know how loose to set it.. tightening it makes belt more tight.. you tend to have to do it couple times.. but if you knew all you had to do was loosen the cam bolt.. tap the pully to release it.. turn cam, then retorque the cam bolt life was good.. if not.. now you know...

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I pretty much did exactly as you have written below but the cam plate would not fit in the slot w flywheel at TDC after the tensioning belt then tightening cam bolt. At that point I rotated however slight till cam plate fit, loosened the cam bolt, knocked the cam sprocket loose, turned flywheel to tdc with screwdriver via timing inspection hole, tightened cam bolt and everything is perfect.

When I rotated the engine ccw 10 deg then cw to tdc (w/o going past tdc), it did not shift the belt tension. It reverted to before I did the ccw rotation. A video would help.

Here's my procedure for easily setting the cam timing precisely and accurately every time.  I'm sure I've posted it before, but here it is reiterated.

Remove the cam sprocket.
Clean the cam sprocket and the taper on the end of the cam with brake clean.  
Place the crank at TDC.
Place the cam at TDC using the cam lock and install equal feeler gauges on either side so that it is both snug and parallel to the head.
Install the pump lock in the pump sprocket.  
Place the timing belt on the engine correctly around the crank, int shaft, tensioner and pump sprockets.  
Place the cam sprocket into the remaining part of the belt and put it onto the cam taper.
Install the bolt onto the cam sprocket until it is snug but the cam sprocket can still turn easily.
Remove the pump lock.
Rotate the crank counter clockwise a few degrees (maybe 10°) and then rotate back to TDC without going past - this step is of utmost importance as it places any belt slack at the tensioner.
Tension the belt using the correct VW tension measuring tool on a 1.6 or the spring loaded tensioner on a 1.9.
Check to be sure the crank has not moved - if it has, then you did not load the slack at the tensioner correctly.
Tighten cam bolt to 25 ft-lbs.
Remove cam lock and feeler gauges.
Hold the cam sprocket by hand (or use a pulley holder if you are weak) and torque to 45 ft-lbs (I know the book says 33 ft-lbs but IMO it is not enough).
Tap the cam bolt with a hammer and recheck the torque.  
Rotate the crank two full rotations back to TDC without going past and double-check the cam timing with the bar and feelers.

Tried the Libby tension method and cam timing was off after belt tensioning and had to redo. Don't know what I did wrong.

The cam sprocket bolt should be torqued AFTER you tension the belt.  If the correct order is used the cam timing will be correct.  

[fatmobile]

 Don't use the injection pump pin.
 Line up the lines.
 Get the cam/crank timing right first, then deal with pump timing.

[srgtlord]

I highly suggest getting the tension gauge... it takes the guess work out of getting the correct tension

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I highly suggest getting the tension gauge... it takes the guess work out of getting the correct tension

 Which one do you have? VW210 Is the factory tool and I'm not sure if it's available anymore.

 Found this universal  one on eBay.  How would you know how accurate it is? Nothing worse than a tool you cannot trust.

 www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-VW-Audi-Volvo-Timing-Cam-Drive-V-Belt-Tension-Tensioning-Gauge-Tool-/261269186172?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item3cd4db667c&vxp=mtr

[Jetmugg]

Nice find.  It would be interesting to learn how accurate that tool is. 

Based on the design, it appears that it relies on a spring placed inside that micrometer-style housing.

If the spring is of the correct dimensions, I hope it should be reliable.

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

Bentley says to use crankshaft bolt, so it must be safe as far as not loosening the bolt.   
 I like turning the wheel in 5th better.

quote author=TylerDurden link=topic=33811.msg317617#msg317617 date=1377004222]
Bentley doesn't say much.

I jack up the passenger side and turn the wheel, tranny in 5th.

Regarding Libbydiesel's method:

... You need to preload the belt by turning the crank CCW a little and then CW back to TDC without passing TDC so that all of the slack of the belt is in the tensioner area.  If that is done, then the crank will NOT move when tensioning the belt.  If that is not done, then then crank will move and the cam timing will be retarded.

[/quote]