81 Caddy starter motor question

[theman53]

You do realize when you press a bushing into the hole it closes down some.

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

You do realize when you press a bushing into the hole it closes down some.

Yes that thought did come up in my mind. How much it closes down depends on how tight the interference fit is. How much? It can't be that much.

Do you know what the acceptable clearance limits are between starter shaft and bushing?

[theman53]

I don't know for sure, but I had one that was .011" bigger than the new one and it wouldn't start the car. I would guess it closes about. 010".

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I will go ahead and replace the bushing. It'll be interesting to see how much less play the new bushing will have after pressed in.

How did you drive the new bushing in? Did you make a press with a plate on the tranny starter mounting holes and a bolt or made a tool with a shoulder and tapped it in with a hammer?

Edit:

Just spoke to a starter rebuild shop and was told VW is about the only mfg he can think of where one of the starter bushings is in the tranny. Every other manufacturers, both bushings are in the starter motor.

[R.O.R-2.0]

I made a plug gage the same diameter as the starter motor shaft and found the bushing in the Caddy tranny is not worn at all! It actually has less play than a new bushing! Saves me from having to R&R the bushing. I'll just grease it up. Pulling the starter was a breeze in the Caddy compared to a MK2. I'll be taking the starter apart to see what's wrong with it.

thats quite impossible..

the mk1 starters are direct drive, huge, and power hungry..

the mk2 and later starters are gear-reduction starters.. they have a set of planetary gears inside them, they draw much less amperage, and put out MORE power because of the gear-reduction..

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I made a plug gage the same diameter as the starter motor shaft and found the bushing in the Caddy tranny is not worn at all! It actually has less play than a new bushing! Saves me from having to R&R the bushing. I'll just grease it up. Pulling the starter was a breeze in the Caddy compared to a MK2. I'll be taking the starter apart to see what's wrong with it.

thats quite impossible..

the mk1 starters are direct drive, huge, and power hungry..

the mk2 and later starters are gear-reduction starters.. they have a set of planetary gears inside them, they draw much less amperage, and put out MORE power because of the gear-reduction..

What's quite impossible? That the new bushing has more play than the old bushing? Well that is what I felt with the gage I made. Maybe the cheapo new bushing is crap and out of tolerance? May when the new bushing is driven in it shrinks a little? I'll find out when I install the new bushing.

Do you have an exploded view of a MK2 gear reduction starter? Would starters from a TDI fit in MK1 or MK2 and will it spin faster?

[R.O.R-2.0]

I made a plug gage the same diameter as the starter motor shaft and found the bushing in the Caddy tranny is not worn at all! It actually has less play than a new bushing! Saves me from having to R&R the bushing. I'll just grease it up. Pulling the starter was a breeze in the Caddy compared to a MK2. I'll be taking the starter apart to see what's wrong with it.

thats quite impossible..

the mk1 starters are direct drive, huge, and power hungry..

the mk2 and later starters are gear-reduction starters.. they have a set of planetary gears inside them, they draw much less amperage, and put out MORE power because of the gear-reduction..

What's quite impossible? That the new bushing has more play than the old bushing? Well that is what I felt with the gage I made. Maybe the cheapo new bushing is crap and out of tolerance? May when the new bushing is driven in it shrinks a little? I'll find out when I install the new bushing.

Do you have an exploded view of a MK2 gear reduction starter? Would starters from a TDI fit in MK1 or MK2 and will it spin faster?

only TDI starter that will work is a starter from an AHU, with an AUTOMATIC.. mk3 TDI auto..

they dont spin any faster than a good mk2/3 gear reduction starter.. the TDI starter uses no bushing on the end of the shaft tho..

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

When I did it I just inserted the tap and kept turning until the bushing started spinning. Then I kept turning and pulled at the same time and it came out. Use the most course tap that you have.

Thanks for this tip. I used a 12 x 1.75 tap and it came out easily on a junk 020 tranny to practice on.

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I made this mandrel bushing driver to practice on the junk tranny before doing the Caddy.



Also made this simple jig to insure the bushing is driven in straight.


Bushing is in the junk tranny, all the way to the bottom. The hole is deeper than the bushing and I think it should not be bottommed out for better support of the starter shaft. I will modify the mandrel driver for controlled depth.

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

You do realize when you press a bushing into the hole it closes down some.

The starter shaft measured 0.430". I made the gage slightly larger, around 0.435.  The 0.435 gage fit in the old bushing but not the new bushing after it was driven in, confirming it closes down a little in a press fit hole.

[tyb525]

So do the mk2 starters spin as fast as the mk1 starters, even though they use gear reduction?

[shorttimer]

Using a MK2 starter sounds like a good thing to do, however more info on what years they were made would be helpful. Or what to ask for in a parts store, ebay, etc. Bosch #? Any info would be nice. Thanks

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

Using a MK2 starter sounds like a good thing to do, however more info on what years they were made would be helpful. Or what to ask for in a parts store, ebay, etc. Bosch #? Any info would be nice. Thanks

Look for a starter from a 91 or 92 Jetta diesel. Here's a reman from Advance auto for $89 + $22 core charge. Don't know about its quality though it does have 1 positive review.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_starter-worldwide_5847435-p?searchTerm=starter#fragment-3

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

My spare gear reduction starter stopped spinning for some reason? Anyone taken one of these apart? I am stuck at the stage as in pic below. I've got the C retainer clips off on both ends of the armature but it does not seem to want to come out. What do I have to do next? These are supposed to have permanent magnets. Maybe that's why they are such compact starters? Is the magnets holding it in?

Edit: There's a C clip in this pic but it's been removed.

[8v-of-fury]

OH yeah..