1.6 NA timing belt wear/oil leak/fuel leak - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• 1.6 NA timing belt wear/oil leak/fuel leak by quanstrom on 07 Nov, 2012 23:37
• Hi everybody,
  
  Several months ago several of you helped me along as I changed my timing belt for the first time.  The job went well, but I'm afraid I must have gotten the belt on a little tighter than necessary. A few weeks ago I was doing a routine "engine check" before a longer drive and noticed bits of timing belt sticking to the front of the engine.  Upon cover removal, it was obviously shot again.  Little rips in the belt etc.  It had maybe 500 or 700 (city) miles on it at that point.
  
  When I changed that belt, I realized what was causing the wear, which was only evident on the inboard half or so of the belt...biodiesel (see photo of belt wear.)  I assumed that by over tightening the first time, I had caused a small fuel leak at the IP drive shaft.  The fuel was/is spattering radially at times from the shaft/pulley (photo below)
  
  Anyway, I couldn't find a new IP shaft seal anywhere within a few days time, but needed the car to commute so I just bought a $10 Gates belt and replaced again.  Went pretty quick the second time...unfortunately, I immediately noticed an oil leak after replacing the belt the second time.  It's dripping down the front of the engine (meaning pulley/belt front) and ultimately dripping off the front side of the engine, aft as it is mounted (photo below of wet oil pan).
  
  At any rate, this is bugging me because I need to get the fuel leak sorted out and I am beginning to suspect that the reason the belt is wearing the way it is has something to do with a worn intermediate and/or IP shaft bearing/seal.  I have the new IP shaft seal now and am ready to replace it along with another new belt.
  
  I am thinking of getting all new shaft seals as well as an intermediate shaft seal and intermediate front bearing to do all at the same time.  But if there is play on the IP shaft I guess Ill need a new bearing for that as well...the intermediate shaft bearing seems like a huge job in and of itself.
  
  Thoughts?  Maybe it's not as bad as I make it sound...?
  
  Anyway, the car continues to drive beautifully.  Every day I drive amidst folks in disgustingly expensive flashy cars getting 20 mpg and I am wholly satisfied to be clattering away in the Jetta...it's really a great car!
  
  Thank you for reading and for your help,
  Ted
  
  
• #1 by Blocksmith on 08 Nov, 2012 09:46
• Hate to be the one to tell you, but your fears are correct--if the belt is wearing on one edge and the IP is leaking out the front seal, then the IP main shaft bushing is shot. Just changing the seal out won't help (I know this from past experience  ). If this hasn't been going on for a long time, then there's a pretty good chance the IM bearings are okay--they have much more surface area and better lubrication than the IP main shaft bushing and should hold up better. If they are bad though, it is indeed a chore to replace them, as you'll have to remove the motor to access them.
  The most convenient way to fix your problem is if you've got a spare pump on hand, just swap it in. If not, you'll need to either purchase one or tear down the pump and replace the worn bushing.
• #2 by quanstrom on 08 Nov, 2012 10:13
• Thanks.
  
  Partsplaceinc.com has rebuilt pumps for 500, and I presume the core charge is included, meanin the real price is more like 350? Does anyone have experience buying from them? Other recommendations?
  
  So I have this oil leak though, maybe one drip every 5-10 seconds at idle once oil is hot. I haven't had to add oil since the last change, 200 city miles, so it's not a terrible leak but I want to fix it. I realize I'll have to tear into the front of engine in order to really see where it's leaking from, but int. shaft bearing is the only place I can guess its really coming from...
• #3 by Dakotakid on 08 Nov, 2012 12:08
• The intermediate shaft seal holder not only has the obvious seal, but also needs the spagetti-strap little green o-ring seal. If you did not install it, you got leak.....simple as that.
  
  When I install a seal like this over a keyway, I use a protective wrap of electrical tape over the keyway to ensure the sharp edges of the slot do not cut the seal as it slides by. I do the same with the camshaft seal, etc.
  
  I also use a little vaseline to help slide the seal into place. I use vaseline because it breaks down much sooner than grease residue and I have never had a seal back out.
  
  If you remove the int. med. seal holder, go ahead and renew the big seal using the above protection. It may be cut. At a minimum, clean it and inspect it very closely. Get up to speed as this is rudimentary stuff.
• #4 by Blocksmith on 08 Nov, 2012 18:27
• Quote from: quanstrom on 08 Nov, 2012 10:13

  So I have this oil leak though, maybe one drip every 5-10 seconds at idle once oil is hot. I haven't had to add oil since the last change, 200 city miles, so it's not a terrible leak but I want to fix it. I realize I'll have to tear into the front of engine in order to really see where it's leaking from, but int. shaft bearing is the only place I can guess its really coming from...
  

  
  Most likely it's coming from the IM seal, but it really could be any number of places. I wouldn't take stuff off until after I had thoroughly cleaned off the fuel & oil already covering everything. Degrease / pressure wash, then take it for a short test drive and see where newly-leaked oil shows up; should help you to zero in on it and verify that it is indeed the IM seal.
  
  As for the pump, $350 for a rebuilt pump sounds a little on the questionably-inexpensive side (assuming that they refund you $150 for the core), and I don't know if I would order much of anything from PartsPlace anymore--word on the street is that the guy who started it and ran it for a long time recently sold it to his daughter, who's made a lot of changes, most for the worse. From looking at their catalogs they keep sending me, it kinda seems like she's trying for a higher profit margin, selling poorer quality parts for higher prices; they lost my business a couple years back. Now, in all fairness I don't know if they do their pump rebuilding in-house or farm it out, so it may still be good work that's a good value. But anyway, speculation aside, if your pump was serviceable before this happened, and you're just looking to get the pump working again and aren't necessarily looking for a fully rebuilt pump, there are more cost-effective options, if you're willing to take the plunge and take apart the pump to one degree or another.
  
  To replace the main shaft bushing the entire pump needs to be disassembled. Now, granted, it looks very difficult and intimidating when you're doing it for the first time, but it's really not bad at all if you have or can make a few special tools, follow directions, and work methodically. If you can assemble a Lego kit then you can do basic work on an injection pump. There are excellent how-to threads, with step-by-step instructions all photographed that make it pretty straightforward, all things considered.
  
  If you'd rather not have to tear down the pump entirely, another option would be to purchase a known-to-be-good, used pump with old rotted seals from one of the members of the forum and reseal it yourself. This would require a only a small amount of disassembly, and might not require any special tools at all, depending on which style pump you have. It's actually pretty easy to replace the main outer seals if you don't want to crack it open completely and do a 'proper' reseal. Genuine Bosch seal kits are available on ebay for under $25.
  
  
  
  
  
• #5 by quanstrom on 12 Nov, 2012 01:52
• Thank you for your recommendations.
  
  Yesterday I removed the pump to reseal shaft. I already had the part and figured it was worth a shot. I found a pretty huge chunk of what I can only presume was timing belt material wrapped around the shaft right up against the seal. I couldn't see it until I got the IP pulley off. I had a runaway several months ago which is what started this whole timing belt escapade; it is certainly a remnant of that disaster...
  
  Anyway, working in the rain at night under the light of a headlamp isn't ideal circumstances, but the reseal was fairly straightforward. Old seal looked pretty good I must say, even after being destroyed during removal.  Shaft play while the seal was out seemed minimal. If I really reefer on it I could get it to move. Clearly something I may need a professionals opinion on in order to determine if IP bearings/bushings need overhaul.
  
  Anyway, another new timing belt went on after the pump was mounted and I am still playing with timing a bit. Oil leak is worse than ever - might grab a handful of new seals and try to do intermediate, camshaft and crankshaft all one of these days as I understand they all use the same part. After bleeding air initially and running for several minutes while playing with the pump until the engine sounded somewhat smooth, I had a friend kill the engine and I saw three or four relatively large bubbles of air travel back up the fuel line between the IP and filter.
  
  Belt appears to be tracking very well to my untrained eye. Cover will stay off for a while to keep an eye on things.
  
  Any thoughts about degreasing and pressure washing? Am I going to hurt anything if I spray down all the pulleys wih degreaser and then blast them at the car wash? I have an aerosol can of some citrus foaming degreaser; will it harm the timing belt?
  
  Thanks for reading and please offer any suggestions you might have.
  
  Ted
• #6 by TylerDurden on 12 Nov, 2012 09:29
• I just degreased and pressure-washed two engines (out of the car). I would not recommend it with a good belt in place, nor can I recommend running the vehicle without the cover (unless wrenching).
  
  Solvents, debris & oil/grease can cause a belt to jump - bent valves are a high price for the minor convenience of easy access or saving an hour of belt R&R for cleaning.
  
  If the pulleys are soiled, you can hand-clean each one in place. You usually need to wipe off the oily residue from pressure washing anyway.
  
  
  On the positive side, it sounds like the IP bushing might be ok. It is not unusual to see a handful of bubbles come out of the IP after shutdown, since air is being whipped like a blender in the IP when the motor is running and won't easily float to the top until the engine is stopped. A few run/stop cycles should purge all the air out of the IP, then re-starting after sitting for a few hours should show if air is leaking in through the IP seals or injector return lines (IP leaks look like fine mist, injector returns will be larger bubbles).
  
  
  Pulling an engine to do all the seals is not too difficult, but will take a couple of weekends and the evenings in between. It's a good summer project, since washdown is messy and drying-time will be favorable.  It's one of those "While-i'm-at-it" landslides that make good sense if you budget the time, since you really don't want to go back in again: Shaft seals, clutch, tranny seals, leaky gaskets... all much easier with the engine and tranny removed. (Rings are easier then too, if compression is dipping.)
  
  These are great little cars; but after 1/4 million miles, a thorough refreshing is a good start on the next 1/4 million.