High RPM stalling problem

[CRSMP5]

summer takes me 5-10 min to get it up over 50*c.. till it exceeds that i keep my foot out of it... once up to 80*c.. i dont hold back... temp gauge just starting to move... no... my water temps will be up to temp a good 5 min before oil.. aka 80*c...

yep it can be your pump... can be lots of things to be honest... but i asked oil pressure vs temp.. and offered a what if..

[gldgti]

But the injector pump is still spinning that fast???

One good thing I can tell you is unless you are in danger of getting ran over by a train there is no need to ever take the engine over 3,000RPM when it is still cold. I think if you stop beating on it when it is  cold this may have a way of fixing itself over time. I put an oil temp gauge in mine and sometimes when it was cold outside it took 15minutes of driving for the oil to get up to running temp.

I appreciate your concern, but I do not "beat on" my engines. Reving it out like I did was purely a one time case to try and see if my problem was caused by oil pressure. There is pretty much no chance of doing any damage to the engine reving it out when its cold just to try something - you just dont make a habit of it.

 If you read my first post, you will see that I have already clearly stated the conditions about when this problem is occurring.

In my (not insignificant) experience, in my country (Australia), 10-12 minutes of cruising at 60-80km/h is plenty of warm up time. Usually, I would not rev the engine past 2500rpm in the warmup period. But when I'm trying do diagnose a weird problem, I'll rev it to whatever the heck I need to, honestly.

cheeers

[8v-of-fury]

When we say a cold engine, what temperatures do we mean?? He lives in Australia, and I'm pretty sure its at least like low to mid 20's over there right now. If you are not pegging 100psi with like a straight 40 weight oil, I don't see an issue with revving a cold (not to operating temperature) engine.

Who warms up their engine when it isn't minus temperatures?? lol

[theman53]

I warm mine up and probably more important let it cool. Oil doesn't have great properties until almost around operating temps. Much more shear and less cushion in it until warm. If it isn't up to temp and the rotating assembly isn't warm, then when you run it hard that is when the bores and such wear in funny egg shapes and the sort. You do not have to do it, it usually won't make worlds of difference until you get up to super high miles, but it does make a difference. I did this with my engine...along with everything I could do correctly and it still died at 40,000 miles...and it looked perfect except for that #3 hole with the busted precup.

OP: I did read it and thought you said "Basically what happens is, when the engine is cool - or rather, not really really warmed up - if you give it full throttle, when you get to say.... above 4000, maybe up to 4500, the engine will completely stall"   You didn't offer how frequently you do it, but you did say " if I've only been driving for 1-15 minutes"

So sorry if I upset you, but I didn't have anything to go by but what you posted. IMHO, that is beating on it and I will not say it isn't, if you are doing that you are beating on it. BUT you have now posted that it isn't something you regularly do and only for diagnostics, I understand. So what you are saying is your problem is solved then??? If you never go above 3,000 until warm then you will never see it again, like it isn't there. Either way, good luck.

[gldgti]

theman53,

my OP has a pretty annoying typo, I'm sorry.

yes, it says 1-15 minutes.... its supposed to read 10-15 minutes.

I maybe come across this problem once a fortnight when I forget the engine is not really hot yet, and get stuck into it.

I appreciate what you are saying about the problem going away because I can avoid it - but - it shouldnt be doing it. I put many miles on another 1.9TD (in a mk3, not a mk1) and it had it tuned WAY more than this one is..... and I never had a similar issue in that engine (in 140,000km).

It bugs me because I don't feel like I can tune this engine up any more until I figure out and fix whatever is causing the problem.

sorry to get defensive.... wish my post didnt have that stupid typo. Thanks.

Its hard to give a good description about how warm we are talking about... but let me put it this way: I would, 95% of the time, drive what 95% of people would consider "very gently" until the gauge is just below halfway up the scale (its a mk1), and/or until the air coming out of the heater is good and hot.

8V-of-fury - it is ofcourse winter here atm, and the coldest I've seen where I live this year is 4.5C...... positively sun-bathing weather for you guys huh? :-)

[theman53]

I have found at 40F or 5c temps the coolant temps will heat up in 10 minutes of driving or less. The oil temps will take at least 10 minutes longer than the water.

Good deal on your post.

[RadoTD]

Sorry if this has been mentioned already, I just read through quickly, but what about your fuel filter? Maybe it's plugging up when cold and just starving the pump when you jump on the noise pedal harder

[gldgti]

not mentioned yet - good thought but no, the filter is good and its definately not that particular problem - which I have experienced numerous times before (mainly because of biodiesel gelling in the cold or a filter full of crud).

When this happens, I get a nailing noise, quite similar to the noise you get when starting the engine when its really cold weather and you crank it with your foot flat on the accelerator but your glow plugs havent glowed yet or they arent working. (havent done that for years and years either, since I was a poor student with a n/a 1.5D and no money for new glow plugs)

it sounds just as if there is fuel igniting in the cylinder way before it should be.

[theman53]

Is this a TD or TDI? In your first post it said something like "just like the aaz" but then you had something like you put .271 nozzles in it and those are DI nozzles not IDI. Just wondering what kind of pump setup you have. If it is nailing in the injection I would start looking at the pump.

[745 turbogreasel]

Try fueling from a can on the hood.

[gldgti]

Is this a TD or TDI? In your first post it said something like "just like the aaz" but then you had something like you put .271 nozzles in it and those are DI nozzles not IDI. Just wondering what kind of pump setup you have. If it is nailing in the injection I would start looking at the pump.

number 273 nozzles like this:

86->90 ME 1.6 068130211D 0434250138 DN 0 SD273
MF (All NA +TD Hyd)

it is a 1Y IDI.... you know, its basically an aaz, but they came out n/a but they have the larger piston pins (like the 1Z tdi I believe)

I am using the original 1Y pump, but I had to rebuild it (it had some water in it from a trip from the UK to australia). All the parts were OK, except the vane pump and there was a little surface corrosion on the camplate.
Regardless, I replaced the vane pump, replaced the head (stock was ~8mm?) with a 9mm one, replaced the camplate with a new 1.9TD camplate and did a fairly conservative governor mod (shimmed the main spring only about 2.5mm, just as the most recent version of the governor mod).

[theman53]

OK, just checking there.

[gldgti]

Well, I have installed oil pressure gauge (as suggested earlier) and can confirm that oil pressure is normal - i.e, when the engine is cod (say 10C) outside in the morning, the startup pressure at idle is 55-60psi, and max pressure I am seeing when cold and driving and testing is 70psi - so clearly the releif is opening properly.

When hot, the pressure is dropping to 20psi at idle (that is at the filter housing).

I have tried a few more things to solve the problem - I changed fuel filters to make sure it wasnt that, and I have also tried tuning the pump up a bit more to see if extra fuel is causing any problems... infact, its just faster and I havnt come across the problem again.

I did find a pinhole in my old fuel filter which was letting air into the fuel system (only when it was warmed up a little bit) so I dont know if maybe air in the lines had something to do with it.... it was a weird problem though.

regardless, I havnt encountered it again for a while. I have been being extra careful not to give it too much before its nice and warm though... ahh well, who knows?

I just polished the cabby today:





and a VAG diesel that you guys in north america don't have access to: