Author Topic: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel  (Read 47991 times)

Reply #105September 02, 2013, 07:47:28 am

theman53

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #105 on: September 02, 2013, 07:47:28 am »
They will normalize at 9-11 amps but I think when it is cold at first pull they will draw way more. IIRC someone was saying that they will pull around 60 each and then it comes down really fast, less than 1/2 second to the 9-11 amp area.

Reply #106September 02, 2013, 07:50:05 am

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #106 on: September 02, 2013, 07:50:05 am »
I am running all four on the 88 off of a single 40A automotive 4 blade relay.

It still started with no issues last winter. The relay was used when I put it in, and is still fine. I have it setup with power directly from battery, relay, plugs. So like 13" tops.

Reply #107September 02, 2013, 09:30:01 am

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #107 on: September 02, 2013, 09:30:01 am »
I have 10 amp individuals on each GP.  Only started popping one as it started to go bad.  Moved to a 15 AMP and didn't have a problem.  Individual 40 amps is overkill and probably not what you want to do.  It would have to be a monster direct short to pop that off. 

Reply #108September 02, 2013, 09:32:55 am

Gizmoman

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #108 on: September 02, 2013, 09:32:55 am »
I have 10 amp individuals on each GP.  Only started popping one as it started to go bad.  Moved to a 15 AMP and didn't have a problem.  Individual 40 amps is overkill and probably not what you want to do.  It would have to be a monster direct short to pop that off. 
Thanks, I moved the discussion to herehttp://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=33874.0 as I was sidetracking the OP's thread.
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost

Reply #109September 02, 2013, 11:29:50 am

theman53

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #109 on: September 02, 2013, 11:29:50 am »
Yeah a 10 or 15 amp should be fine unless it is super fast acting as the initial draw is only in milliseconds then it goes to the approx. 10/plug

Reply #110September 02, 2013, 01:20:58 pm

Gizmoman

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #110 on: September 02, 2013, 01:20:58 pm »
I have 10 amp individuals on each GP.  Only started popping one as it started to go bad.  Moved to a 15 AMP and didn't have a problem.  Individual 40 amps is overkill and probably not what you want to do.  It would have to be a monster direct short to pop that off. 
Yeah a 10 or 15 amp should be fine unless it is super fast acting as the initial draw is only in milliseconds then it goes to the approx. 10/plug

I have 15 amp fuses on each of the four GP's. What I was asking about was the relay(s), and I have decided to use 2-40 amp jobs - two GP's for each. They will feed to the 15 amp fuses.
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost

Reply #111September 04, 2013, 10:37:35 am

flowmastergfunk

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #111 on: September 04, 2013, 10:37:35 am »
Oh wow! I am happy that the glowplug deal sparked so much interest! Matter of fact, I was kinda waiting for someone to say "Don't you think 60amps per plug is a little bit overkill?" lol I only went with the 60ampers because that is what came in the fusebox (except for the extra 40amper at the end that I removed)

This worked out because I was a bit curious how much they actually drew. My rough draft setup (2 glass fuses, each feeding a pair of GP's) I had started with 25a fuses, only to burn them out rather quickly. I went up to 30a, and it was better...but IIRC I had still blown a few. I was thinking that 20a or 25a would do fine for individual plug fuses, for a little extra headroom.

Since doing the timing again, the car has been running great! EGT's were still climbing when going up a grade, but not nearly as much! I still backed off the max fuel about a quarter turn, because I noticed a position in the throttle cable where EGT's would start to climb if I passed it. There's the governor mod workin!!! ;D

Even though we all know this got off to an abusive start, I am still taking precautions to keep engine temps safe and stable. The fan that I made certainly works great, but I picked up a piece of aluminum yesterday to make a bracket for my flexalite dual fan. I would rather have an extra fan on demand, just incase I ever need it. My gasser temps would never fluctuate like this motor, so I think the diesel is more deserving of it. I am also going to be on the lookout for an oil cooler setup next time I am at the junker. I heard the volvo turbo's have a cooler that is a direct fit, you just have to get creative with the hoses. I read briefly about water wetter and picked up a bottle at the parts store yesterday. I guess antifreeze isn't a huge factor here in So Cal. The water wetter label recommends running a minimum of 15% coolant on a street car, but I am not sure what the "boiling" qualities of a 15-85% mix would have. One review I looked over said that this sauce does NOT lower the boiling point of water, it just helps "hot spots". Having a vented system, I do not want my system to boil and start puking out the cap! Hopefully I get the blend just right! I am also looking to change the setup for my upper radiator hoses. The way I had to cut and splice the stuck hose is a little wonky. I want to simplify the bends, have the hose sit more "flat" and get the filler neck closer to the head, so it's not hovering over the alternator. I should be able to shape something up with whatever they have in stock at carquest. I have a couple close friends that work there, so we should be able to go back and forth to the parking lot and eyeball a pair of hoses that will work out.

Now that I have advanced as a technician and have been studying the flow characteristics of gasser heads, I am excited to do headwork on a diesel one of these days! Having this system all dialed in will give me a pretty good before and after when it comes to seeing temperature differences between a ported and non ported head with the same fueling. Then, figure out how much further you can push the fueling with a free flowing head! Once I get the rabbit out of the way, I hope to pickup an extra diesel head to put on the shelf.

As far as I am concerned, I have it dialed in just right at this point. A VERY happy medium between economy, performance and temperature. I would love to see how much better this engine would push my gutted, super light rabbit with a shorter final drive instead of this big tuna boat of a jetta! I am very impressed how well this thing moves for it's size! I can still remember what it was like trying to make it up the big hill to my house when I first got it....second gear FLOORED, door open, kicking off the pavement to help push my car in anyway that I could hahaha. Then realizing how much better things were when I did the suspension and I could BOMB through the corner at the bottom, trying to keep my momentum!

I finally cracked the case on my CHE tranny yesterday and swapped in a .75 5th. The stock ratio with the .8 actually wasn't too bad. I feel that it is a great tranny for economy. Now, it is just like an early ff with a final drive swap. It is not an extreme difference, as it only drops rpms by 200 at 75, but it feels great. The .8 will find itself a much more useful home going into a close ratio tranny  8)

The mk2 is much easier to do the swap in than the mk1 (stupid frame rail!). It only took me a few hours, and I was moving pretty slow. The hardest part is drilling the smaller gear to accept the large spline style clip. Thank goodness I have some carbide crap! I had to start with a small carbide dremel bit, then I was able to start buzzing it out with larger carbide cones, and THEN I could hit it with a drill bit so that I could have some steep walls, to keep the clip from climbing out.


Anywho, thanks again for the kind words and suggestions all along the way guys.


« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 02:04:04 pm by flowmastergfunk »

Reply #112September 06, 2013, 03:33:33 pm

flowmastergfunk

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2013, 03:33:33 pm »
I think I got my cooling and fan issues ironed out! This is how my initial fan turned out. I think it looks pretty clean :) never mind the pink and baby blue paint! It DID used to be my chicks car! I wet sanded it and did a black fade around the edges...dusted with a little silver metal flake lol

It is a good deal less invasive than stock


It actually works great, I feel it looks better, and it is certainly less loud that both the stock and Flex-a-lite units! I just feel better using the fancy dual unit for this car, since the diesel runs much hotter than my gas car by nature(well...maybe just because I have both of them running rich ;) ).

To get the Scirocco Flex-a-lite fan to fit the diesel radiator, I redrilled the holes on both side brackets that came with the fan, so that the mounting tabs set closer to the radiator. Then, for the passenger side, I made a simple bracket out of a 13" piece of aluminum strap that goes between the top and bottom radiator mounts. I shot 4 sheet metal screws threw it, ground off the sharp tips, and it was ready to install! This was quick and easy! The time consuming part was adding dual relays and dual switches!


Here is the fan in place with the new upper radiator hose I threw together

I managed to find a universal hose that had satisfactory curves for the radiator side, and cut a piece of the stock hose for the head inlet side. I think that the head side could swing up a little more, but for now it is WAY better than it was!

No more filler neck above the radiator, I got the overflow routed smoothly down the face of the engine (sorry wildlife activists! It shouldn't boil over!) and I believe this took care of any air bubbles I was getting in the head!

I am running conventional  around 25% green coolant, 75% distilled water, and half a bottle of Redline Water Wetter. I drove it around last night and my temps were amazing! Looked to be around 1/3 of the way up driving around city streets with one fan on! It has been hot as hell around here lately, so not sure how it does during the day while it is still scorching out! So far it is a GREAT improvement though!

Reply #113September 06, 2013, 06:26:16 pm

Gizmoman

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #113 on: September 06, 2013, 06:26:16 pm »
Very nice work. Great news on the low temps, especially in this weather.
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost

Reply #114September 07, 2013, 08:12:39 am

flowmastergfunk

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #114 on: September 07, 2013, 08:12:39 am »
Gizmo! You, being in SD, know first hand how foul it has been! Yesterday it was between 100-105 by my house! I figured it would be a perfect day to road test it haha. By the time I got to leave and go run errands yesterday, I was cooking inside my car, and the engine was happy as a clam! Hardly raised up past 1/3! Sat at a stop light without the fans on, just to watch the temp, and it didn't even start shooting up then! Did some stop and go at various stores, heat soak didn't even take the temps up to high.

I did rob the power wire from my EGT gauge to feed the fan relay switches, so I didn't watch my EGT's in unison...but by this point I have a better idea of what throttle position and what size of hill will bring my exhaust temps up.  Since I had my gauge kinda rigged in the first place, I just had a constant power wire that I would disconnect every time I parked the car hahaha so it was much better suited for the fan switches. I am gonna sneak out today and tap it into a keyed power source.

My next big adventure is getting set up with real gauges. I am going to grab the triple VDO gauges from a cabby, audi or whatever...and then I want to start working on an instrument cluster...which is probably going to be a HUGE PITA!

I had an actual diesel cluster with a tach, but after the brakeup, and initial departure up dub nasty...I sold it :(
Same with the fender flares I had for it. Since they are rather tough to find, and pricey if you do indeed find one, I am just guessing I will be using a gasser cluster and doing the tach conversion.

I love electrical work and electronic stuff, but I despise these flexable ribbon cable circuit boards. Even though swapping resistors and such to convert the tach signal, I will still be faced with the hardships of taking the cluster apart, tracing leads, having all the little LEDS labled correctly...making sure I have a glow plug LED and not an o2 LED lol....

My current cluster is already beat. A few burnt traces, the contacts for the dash lights are ruined...I suppose I just need to get them out and start digging in...but I will at least have to get a triple gauge setup to rely on first! I can do without a speedo, clock and dashlights(haha I have for years). I can even do without having a fuel gauge for a while...but I have to watch temps! It still bugs me not having a volt meter.

Any body have a mk2 that they have added VDO's for replacing idiot lights?

Reply #115September 07, 2013, 09:26:53 am

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #115 on: September 07, 2013, 09:26:53 am »
Congrats on your temp test. Yeah, I hate the flexi-chingus on the back of my cluster as well. Had to jumper the traces to get my dash lights working again - all good now. I even ran wire to light the temp sliders. I changed the tiny bulbs to blue LEDs - work great.
I'm still fiddling with all the stuff I still need to do and in this heat, I'm keeping to benchwork in the garage with a window AC (my electric bills gonna be murder.
The van's outside baking ;D
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost

Reply #116September 11, 2013, 08:03:17 am

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #116 on: September 11, 2013, 08:03:17 am »
Picked up a thrermostatic oil cooler plate off a turbo Volvo yesterday. Had to take the entire flange because I could NOT get the center bolt to come out with the tools I had! I think it is a 29mm or 1 1/8" because I had a 30mm 12 point and it wouldn't bite. Now that I got it back in my garage, I have tried using a 30mm 6 point...and it's grabbing, but not loosening! Laid on it with my little dewalt impact...nothing. Got an 1 1/8" box wrench, whooping it's ass with a hammer...nothing. Bastard! I am trying PB blaster, but not even sure that is going to help! I wish I still had a bench vice! That would help tremendously. Too bad I need the threaded insert or I would be at it with giant channel locks or a grinder by thie point The correct tools generally make a difference, but never thought I would need a 29mm deep socket and I hate having to buy SAE tools!!!!

Not sure what kind of oil radiator I am going to run yet....I didn't grab the Volvo one, nor the lines. I knew damn well the lines wouldn't work, so I figured I would surf the internet for a more friendly application. Not sure If I want to mount it behind the grill and in front of the radiator...Kinda thinking about aiming low, behind the bumper, but with the angle of the radiator, I think I have plenty of room in front of it on the drivers side, if I go that route. I guess the first task is finding a cooler that I like and picking a spot accordingly :) The volvo lines are different on both ends, so I would like to get adapters for the sandwich that convert it to more common fittings. I prefer to have lines that are the same style fitting on both ends. There is a nice local shop that does custom lines/hoses, so I will most likely go to them once I decide what cooler to run.

Also grabbed another clean center console! I am going to redo this one the same way to accept my dual din deck, but I am not going to cut into the sides or the cubby this time. The speakers in the center console seemed cool at first, but it was only because there was no convenient way to stuff speakers into the door cards. Not exactly sure how the front speakers are going to work out yet, but I am going to start worrying about getting the rear deck lid finished.

Interior was 50% off, so it's a damn shame I still can't find any doorcards! Certainly the worst part of my interior dilemma!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 08:08:10 am by flowmastergfunk »

Reply #117September 12, 2013, 08:42:45 am

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #117 on: September 12, 2013, 08:42:45 am »
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Cute :P It had been so long since I put it together, I flat out couldn't remember if there was a mark or not. There certainly was ;D A big fat statue of a park! Couldn't miss it!

Took the valve cover and belt off, retimed the engine, turned it over a couple of times and everything still lined up spot on. Went to go check the pump timing and it was like 1.4mm or something!!! I must have been off a tooth when I timed it before. I set it to just about .98 and went for a drive.....

Yeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh buddy! THAT'S what this thing was supposed to do all along!! It is a bit loud with that much advance, but it friggin wails and EGT's are glorious. I wonder how much more mean this would feel be with my 7A tranny!....oh man....that's a whole different can of worms ;)



so you were timed at 1.4mm and your egt's were awful and you retarded back to .98 and it ran better/faster/quieter/lower temps?

... I need to re-re-check my timing. I just hate trying to check it. The water outlet on the head interferes with my timing tools/dial gauge. So i have to re RTV it every time I take it off and yap yap yap. I'm actually really interested in your slim fan mod as well. I'll probably do that, the timing belt and valve cover all at once.

Question: What are the specs on that slim fan installed in the stock fan shroud? Where'd you get it? And are you running the stock mk1 radiator or a plus size? I'm deciding what new radiator to order since mine has developed a small crack and is leaking slowly when the pump is on. Any input on size/fan setup? I was going to try a slim mount fan (preferably something with a much higher CFM) in the stock fan shroud on the stock sized or upsized radiator and run either a manual fan switch or something that kicks on around 200*. Unless you think the flexafit is really the bomb diggity for these cars. haha.

This thread has tons of awesome in it. Keep up the good work!
'84 Rabbit Diesel- 1.6D Stock

Reply #118September 12, 2013, 02:27:18 pm

flowmastergfunk

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #118 on: September 12, 2013, 02:27:18 pm »
Correction...I certainly did not RUN my car at 1.4mm! after I took OFF the belt, put it back on and rechecked the timing, that is where it landed. I don't think I adjusted the clack properly last time, and I believe the pump was one tooth off....so I adjusted the timing for BEING one tooth off. Plain and simple, my all around engine timing was set incorrectly.

Ahhhh yes. I actually have two lengths for my dial indicator adapters. One makes the gauge land right underneath the upper radiator hose, the other is so long that it interferes with the vacuum pump hahaha.

My radiator is a stock unit for a mk2 diesel WITH A/C. The Flex-a-lite fan is just shy of $300 bucks on Jegs....which is crazy expensive. I bought it when I was ballin, and it certainly a fine unit. I am happy to have it, but I wouldn't buy another one unless it was used :P The fan I used to mod the stock housing was a universal 10" slim fan off ebay. It says it draws less than 7 amps and is rated at 1570 cfm. It blows the stock fan out of the water, no pun intended. They are only about $25 shipped for the fan, but certainly requires lots of trimming and elbow grease. I will be selling the one I already made it you are into baby blue, hot pink sprinkles and silver glitter :D

Thanks for the compliment too! I hope to have some exciting updates soon! I have been doing some parts gathering...got my oil cooler sandwich all cleaned up and got the threaded piece ouf of the volvo flange! I manage to find some cabby gauges and got my 42 draft designs plate to mount them in the stock radio slot. I figured I would splurge on something of good quality and not try to rig something out of thin ABS.

I mounted my momo steering wheel today which just feels infinitely better to me! Love it!

Reply #119September 14, 2013, 03:55:59 pm

flowmastergfunk

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Re: Dub Nasty- The rebirth of the dirty diesel
« Reply #119 on: September 14, 2013, 03:55:59 pm »
I finally did my third oil change and figured it was safe to go ahead and do the switch to synthetic. I ended up going with the Rotella T6 5w-40 full synthetic. Thus far...the car loves it! She is taking on hills better, acceleration feels better, seems to like to rev a bit higher( I was getting a little chatter at higher rpm's that I thought may have been the injectors...now I am guessing it was lifters?), it holds it's rpms up better between shifts...not just dropping. I suppose that second batch of oil and the filter were well beyond their life span. Temps are still fairly high during the hot days...but not what they once were. I think the oil will help with temps too. I am planning on doing a hot filter change after getting some miles on it and just topping it off again. Help clear out whatever kind of crap was leftover after the oil change. Running a carquest premium Wix filter for now. Last one I ran was Mann. Still not sure what the BEST filter is for this car...but I guess as long as they keep getting changed, a filter is a filter is a filter. Open for endless debate, which could easily turn into "what is the best toilet paper" hahaha

Hopefully I will get the rest of the bits to do the oil cooler setup soon and I can just put a new filter on then.

My next big goal is to do a mk3 rear drum swap with a mk3 master cylinder. I am convinced my rears are FINISHED! I had to make a fast stop for a light last week and the car was pretty pissed about slowing down. Eventually, the fronts locked up, and the car was still going! Yikes! I really think it would be wise to have the 200mm drums in general, but I am contemplating just getting a full mk3 beam from the junker to save time and money for now. I still have some open ended questions about the ordeal. Started a thread on it, because all the threads I could find were about swapping to rear disk...and I don't want discs!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6136716-No...I-don-t-want-rear-disks.-MK3-beam-and-drum-s

I also took off my Neuspeed short shifter and rod and put the stock one back on with a mk3 rod...and I almost like it more:screwy:
I kinda missed the way the stock shifter felt! I have a TT short shifter in my rabbit that came with my downpipe...and I always kept it in the stock setting. I do prefer the feel of a tranny side SS over the steering rack side SS, but I came to realize...a short shifter isn't gonna make this slug any faster haha

Here are my gauges and a few of my momo goodies in the background. I am going to start on the wiring this week and hopefully my gauge panel will show up soon. I think I may need to get some different sensors too, but I will have to start doing some studying on different wiring diagrams.


This is the momo wheel out of my rabbit, but eventually, I hope to find whatever model it is that accepts the center pad that I have. I bought this champion wheel in the first place because I thought it was the one :/ that's all future tense. No biggie.


Got some extra weight on the car right now...but it is still doing great with it! Thank goodness it has such built suspension! I was skeptical of the mk2 roof rails at first...but I finally got brave/confident enough to throw this thing up there. Certainly incentive to get the rear brakes done soon soon soon!


In case you are wondering, it is a pop up tent, and it is awesome!