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Engine is losing coolant...but not leaking
by
overdrivegear
on 17 Sep, 2009 12:17
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My CR mechanical lifter 1.6 NA is losing coolant but there isn't an external leak in the system. Clearly, the only other place for it to go in the combustion chamber, but my car hasn't had any of the typical symptoms of a bad head gasket and seems to be running ok. I'm currently using 11mm ARP studs but put in a cheapie head gasket about 40,000 furlongs (5,000 miles) ago. I also used a head gasket sealant spray when I installed it, but there is a bit of oil leaking off the front near the injection pump.
I haven't done a leak down test on it yet but that will be the real telling analysis. Conceptually, I'd think a diesel with a bad head gasket would have more revealing signs than an gasser. Thoughts?
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#1
by
NintendoKD
on 17 Sep, 2009 13:11
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find a smog or pre-smog shop and ask to use the sniffer to check your coolant resorvoir while the engine is running if there are CO's present your headgasket is going bad. True story, happened to me in like three cars now "Darn bad luck!
" also try removing your exhaust at the downpipe, if excessive fluid drains this is also a good indication of headgasket failure. This usually occurs at the beginning of failure before the excessive blowby causes water to move into the oil passages and vice-versa. It's either that or you have a cracked head or block "knock on wood"
Hope that this helps,
Kevin
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#2
by
lovinthedeez
on 17 Sep, 2009 21:40
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drop the oil. If it looks milkshakey, time for a new headgasket. If its not leaking, its getting burned up or mixing with the oil. do you have white smoke out the tailpipe?
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#3
by
overdrivegear
on 18 Sep, 2009 05:28
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drop the oil. If it looks milkshakey, time for a new headgasket. If its not leaking, its getting burned up or mixing with the oil. do you have white smoke out the tailpipe?
The oil looks OK. I changed it recently and there isn't really any white smoke or steam coming out of the tail pipe.
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#4
by
NintendoKD
on 18 Sep, 2009 06:39
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the coolant has to be going somewhere Quote: conservation of mass and energy
check your oil again maybe it has popped since your last oil change but overall sounds like a possible head gasket failure try the smog shop for sure
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#5
by
turbosuzi
on 18 Sep, 2009 16:52
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My dad overheated his motor because his motor was loosing coolant but not leaking. It wasnt going into the oil or the cyl. But after it was hot there was a pinhole in one of the heater lines that would only leak while driving but no when idling. I dont know if it had anything to do with increased pressure from the water pump running faster or what. For what it's worth.
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#6
by
SolarSteve
on 18 Sep, 2009 16:58
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I had a very similar situation. After driving home from work one day I stopped in the driveway just have a look at the motor and make sure everything was good to go. I was just about to close the hood and one of the plastic elbows on one of my coolant lines (extra stuff installed) had a tiny crack and the coolant was pissing out in such a fine stream I almost missed it.
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#7
by
Rabbit TD
on 18 Sep, 2009 19:19
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My CR mechanical lifter 1.6 NA is losing coolant but there isn't an external leak in the system. Clearly, the only other place for it to go in the combustion chamber, but my car hasn't had any of the typical symptoms of a bad head gasket and seems to be running ok. I'm currently using 11mm ARP studs but put in a cheapie head gasket about 40,000 furlongs (5,000 miles) ago. I also used a head gasket sealant spray when I installed it, but there is a bit of oil leaking off the front near the injection pump.
I haven't done a leak down test on it yet but that will be the real telling analysis. Conceptually, I'd think a diesel with a bad head gasket would have more revealing signs than an gasser. Thoughts?
What do you mean by a Cheapy headgasket, is it just an ordinary fiber gasket? That's all I've ever used with no major problems. If you've got ARP studs I'd just retorque them one at a time 10-12 lbs higher assuming you originaly did them at 80 ft. lbs. I guess the 11's go in the block deeper like the 12's do don't they? My current 1.6 T/D has the block surfaced and a brand new Top-Line head, 12 m/m studs and a fiber gasket torqued originaly 80 lbs and leaked pressure into the reservoir 15 min. after it started. I let it cool down completely and loosened the bolts a quarter turn and retorqued to 95 lbs one at a time in sequence and it hasn't used a drop of water or pressurized the cooling system since in about 9,000 mi. now since Winter. My N/A did the same thing and I did the same thing with it and it never acted up afterwards again either. My buddies old toyota started using water and he tried a retorque and had the same luck also. Try a retorque, what do you have to loose. I doubt if the block is cracked and if the studs go deeper in the block than the bolts did I don't think you have to worry about it cracking torquing a little tighter. It seems these things leak no matter what you do after carefully putting one together and retorquing always seems to work unless it's been like this a good while. Like I said, I started with a resurfaced block, a brand new head and 12m/m studs to eliminate this stuff because I'd been there before and still ended up with it anyhow in the beginning and the only thing that fixes it is a retorque or a new gasket which probably will do the same thing after the same amount of time also unless retorqued. They all seem to be like this and if you use the metal gasket from what I've read they have to really be pulled tighter yet to do their thing but seem to last longer once or if you get if right. That's why I keep recomending studs because when you get to this point after the rebuild which we almost all do you can feel a lot safer doing a tighter retorque knowing that they are in the block deeper. With those 12m/m stretch bolts I don't know how anybody retorques those things because you don't know what they are actualy torqued to at that time to begin with after all the extra 1/4 turns and all that crap let alone all the creaking and popping noises that go along with it and wondering if the block just cracked or something. The studs are your friends, they will help you
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#8
by
overdrivegear
on 19 Sep, 2009 16:48
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My CR mechanical lifter 1.6 NA is losing coolant but there isn't an external leak in the system. Clearly, the only other place for it to go in the combustion chamber, but my car hasn't had any of the typical symptoms of a bad head gasket and seems to be running ok. I'm currently using 11mm ARP studs but put in a cheapie head gasket about 40,000 furlongs (5,000 miles) ago. I also used a head gasket sealant spray when I installed it, but there is a bit of oil leaking off the front near the injection pump.
I haven't done a leak down test on it yet but that will be the real telling analysis. Conceptually, I'd think a diesel with a bad head gasket would have more revealing signs than an gasser. Thoughts?
What do you mean by a Cheapy headgasket, is it just an ordinary fiber gasket? That's all I've ever used with no major problems. If you've got ARP studs I'd just retorque them one at a time 10-12 lbs higher assuming you originaly did them at 80 ft. lbs. I guess the 11's go in the block deeper like the 12's do don't they? My current 1.6 T/D has the block surfaced and a brand new Top-Line head, 12 m/m studs and a fiber gasket torqued originaly 80 lbs and leaked pressure into the reservoir 15 min. after it started. I let it cool down completely and loosened the bolts a quarter turn and retorqued to 95 lbs one at a time in sequence and it hasn't used a drop of water or pressurized the cooling system since in about 9,000 mi. now since Winter. My N/A did the same thing and I did the same thing with it and it never acted up afterwards again either. My buddies old toyota started using water and he tried a retorque and had the same luck also. Try a retorque, what do you have to loose. I doubt if the block is cracked and if the studs go deeper in the block than the bolts did I don't think you have to worry about it cracking torquing a little tighter. It seems these things leak no matter what you do after carefully putting one together and retorquing always seems to work unless it's been like this a good while. Like I said, I started with a resurfaced block, a brand new head and 12m/m studs to eliminate this stuff because I'd been there before and still ended up with it anyhow in the beginning and the only thing that fixes it is a retorque or a new gasket which probably will do the same thing after the same amount of time also unless retorqued. They all seem to be like this and if you use the metal gasket from what I've read they have to really be pulled tighter yet to do their thing but seem to last longer once or if you get if right. That's why I keep recomending studs because when you get to this point after the rebuild which we almost all do you can feel a lot safer doing a tighter retorque knowing that they are in the block deeper. With those 12m/m stretch bolts I don't know how anybody retorques those things because you don't know what they are actualy torqued to at that time to begin with after all the extra 1/4 turns and all that crap let alone all the creaking and popping noises that go along with it and wondering if the block just cracked or something. The studs are your friends, they will help you
It's just a fiber gasket from the autoparts store. I didn't get a 'german' quality one.
I did torque down the studs to 80 ft. lbs but I'm scared to torque any past that...breaking one of those would be expensive and a lot of work to fix.
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#9
by
NintendoKD
on 19 Sep, 2009 21:39
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HA HA! you will break/ crack your head before you break that stud, and you let me know if you do, because YOU! my friend, ARE the man of steel.
They are made from high tensile strength chromoly steel, so IF, and I do mean, IF you break one I want to see some pictures.
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#10
by
arb
on 20 Sep, 2009 06:51
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My dad overheated his motor because his motor was loosing coolant but not leaking. It wasnt going into the oil or the cyl. But after it was hot there was a pinhole in one of the heater lines that would only leak while driving but no when idling. I dont know if it had anything to do with increased pressure from the water pump running faster or what. For what it's worth.
I had this too once upon a time... Also, what mix of coolant are you using? Some are good to 276 degrees when mixed 70 : 30.
Also I've never used an sealant on any head gasket... most say not to.
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#11
by
Rabbit TD
on 20 Sep, 2009 17:36
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My dad overheated his motor because his motor was loosing coolant but not leaking. It wasnt going into the oil or the cyl. But after it was hot there was a pinhole in one of the heater lines that would only leak while driving but no when idling. I dont know if it had anything to do with increased pressure from the water pump running faster or what. For what it's worth.
I had this too once upon a time... Also, what mix of coolant are you using? Some are good to 276 degrees when mixed 70 : 30.
Also I've never used an sealant on any head gasket... most say not to.
Yeah I know they all seem to say that and I guess that's what they are designed for in a perfect world which obviously these heads don't live in for some reason. Parts Place recomends Hylomar which to me is basicly just a blue Permatex silicone type thing and I sure wouldn't put that on the head. I have used the Permatex copper spray though and had the engine leak even with that on there with a brand new head, surfaced block and 12 m/m studs and a fiber gasket. I pulled them a little tighter and everthing's been fine since. I've read on here of people pulling them to 120 or more and been OK. Like they said before, you aren't gonna break one, something else will let go first. What else would a person do after having the block surfaced, new head, studs and a careful torque procedure installing it. There is nothing else to do but pull it a little tighter and it has always worked for me soo far.
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#12
by
Baron VonZeppelin
on 20 Sep, 2009 22:04
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I agree with both schools here.
I've had 3 difrnt cars hide a pinhole coolant leak because they only occurred during driving conditions. Never left a puddle anywhere.
So keep all eyes out on that.
And i agree with going higher than 80 ft lbs on the studs.
95 to 100. Especially if you got a 3notch gasket.
The oil leak is probly just around the oil drain port/hump.
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#13
by
overdrivegear
on 22 Sep, 2009 18:42
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HA HA! you will break/ crack your head before you break that stud, and you let me know if you do, because YOU! my friend, ARE the man of steel. They are made from high tensile strength chromoly steel, so IF, and I do mean, IF you break one I want to see some pictures.
I've broken a couple used studs before I bought some new ARP studs that are in there right now. What was that about being a man of steel??? I'll get some pics.
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#14
by
spencebm
on 22 Sep, 2009 20:07
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heater core