Volvo diesel vs Mercedes - page 1 - Non VW Group Diesel - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Volvo diesel vs Mercedes by zyewdall on 07 Sep, 2005 09:41
• I understand that the volvo diesel was just a 6 cylinder version of the VW1.6TD.  A friend of mine has an option to get an old ('89?) volvo diesel station wagon, or an early '80's Mercedes wagon.  How do these compare?  Is the 6 cylinder VW engine as reliable as the 4 clyinder ones?  How about power?   I have a little experience with the Mercedes, but none with the volvo (except in the VW1.6 version).  Cold starting, and performance at high altitude are both pretty important parameters.  The turbo should take care of altitute performance, but I know some of the old Merc's had a really hard time starting in the cold.
• #1 by VWRacer on 07 Sep, 2005 10:01
• I have a longtime friend with a mid-80s 300TD Mercedes. The car is very well maintained and quite handsome, but is the most pathetic performing car I have ever driven, save perhaps an 80's 6-pack n/a diesel Chevy truck.  And it gets less than 20 mpg on the highway! :wink:
  
  Buy the Volvo.
• #2 by BlackTieTD on 07 Sep, 2005 10:04
• id really like to see someone shoehorn one of those volvo 6-cylinder diesels into a rabbit.  
• #3 by zyewdall on 07 Sep, 2005 11:10
• Yeah -- I imagine the Mercedes is like typical american cars -- sprung so it handles like a soft squishy boat.  I love leaving my friend's new Ford Explorer in the dust on windy mountain roads in my old Subaru -- and that's before we even get onto the dirt roads where it's even worse.  Can't wait to try the rabbit out on those roads, and be getting three times the mileage instead of only twice....   :twisted:
  
  A 6 cylinder in a MK1 woudl be cool.  I'm just wondering where the passenger side front wheel would be moved too...  :shock:
• #4 by gratefuljoe on 08 Sep, 2005 17:44
• I have to come to the rescue of the early eighties 300d.  I own one of these fantastic vehicles, and if you know what you're doing, you can make these things perform prodigious feats.
  
  My own vehicle is a mild example.  Don't get me wrong, it's no go-kart, and the handling is definitely the worst part.  However, the car is virtually unflappable - as in, I can do WHATEVER I want to the poor thing and it eats it up with pride.  Each part is made to withstand a nuclear blast, and you can really feel that at the limit.  Oversteer is progressive and manageable, and actually a whole lot of fun.
  
  My motor has 13 degree advanced injection timing, and this changed the characteristics completely.  What was once a whimpy sounding, very tame and quiet motor became a pissed-off snorting beast.  That mod alone returned at least 20hp (seat of pants).  Furthermore, I increased the fueling via the ALDA (which can be ajusted in seconds) and increased the boost by adjusting the wastegate spring.  The free-flow intake is on the way, and the straight pipe exhaust will be installed after that.  As for right now, it's very fun to drive and it makes an fairly impressive amount of power.  I figure I'm getting to 60mph in about 12 - 13 seconds.
  
  However, there are people that are taking these cars to an obsene level.  in Finland, they create "super-turbos".  A super turbo has to make at least 100hp per litre.  With a 3 litre motor, that's a lot of power and torque.  They're propelling these 4000+ lb cars to the quarter mile in the 12's and 13's without fail.  And longevity is maintained.  
  
  To quote one of the super turbo builders:
  
  "These engines are still mechanically controlled, no electronics.
  
  The secret of these power figures is is huge intercooler and turbo + new elements in the pump to ensure the proper amout of fuel for 425 Hp output.
  
  Otherwise the engines are standard, bearings etc.
  
  Transmission is either reinforced mechanical or automatic.
  
  Super-turbos ( as they are called here in Finland ) in W124 chassis do have aircon as well."
  
  check:
  http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?t=104635&highlight=markku
  
  Furthermore, with the Bilstein HD shocks and shortened, stiffer springs, they can be made to handle too.
  
  In a nutshell - just like other types of high-revving diesels, these cars can be made to fly with the right expertise.  Moderate tuning returns a fun ride, and serious tuning returns an outrageous ride.  
  
  My favorite part about the mercedes is just how rock-solid it is.  If they are maintained, they'll run for 2 million km.  Best highway vehicle I've ever owned.
  
  If it's a daily driver with highway driving planned - it's the mercedes.
  
  If it's city squirting and autocrossing, it's the rabbit.
  
  -gratefuljoe
  1984 300d on BioD
  GTD rabbit building soon
• #5 by gratefuljoe on 08 Sep, 2005 18:00
• check this too:
  
  http://www.teamrwd.com/dieselboost/300_24.php
  
   :shock:
• #6 by zyewdall on 08 Sep, 2005 22:41
• Nice!!!  I knew those engines were pretty bulletproof and the cars were built like tanks, but I hadn't heard of the retuning for more power before.  That is some monster turbo -- almost as big as the one on a DT466 school bus engine.  I had heard of people running mercs on straight veggie oil without even heating it too, which will rapidly kill the injection pump for most diesels, but the Mercs just go with it.  We ran a 1974 300D (non turbo) on veggie oil (properly heated) and it sounded like a gas engine -- you could hear the lifters again at idle, instead of the diesel knock.  Still pretty darn slow though...   If the SUV's get any bigger, I might have to get one just to fight them off though.  A rabbit's not too good against a suburban...
  
  My friend actually ended up buying a subaru instead of either the VW or the Mercedes...  Oh well, I tried.  :roll:
• #7 by jtanguay on 08 Sep, 2005 23:52
• wow I watched the video of the mercedes taking off... what a smoke screen!!!
• #8 by VWdieseljunkie on 19 Sep, 2005 21:52
• Volvo diesel, as with ANY I-6 diesel that has a single head, it prone to head damage.  The volvo's short coming as far as I am concerned, as well as mercedes' failure.  
  
  I am personally a big mercedes fan myself.  The 3.0 I-5 turbodiesel is by far the most bullet-proof engine I have ever tinkered with.  We like them so much, that we have one in our boat(21' welcraft deep-V), I have one in my jeep comanche http://photobucket.com/albums/y211/vwdieseljunkie/, and we have two boats waiting for a repower as soon as we get motors (25' Seabird jetboat, 30' something-or-other that currently has two 454 sterndrives)
  
  The 300TD's, ick.  Even the turbo'd wagons are pretty doggy, but hey, they are stationwagons.  The 300SD, excellent all around cars.  300D non-turbo is ok, but the 300D turbo, if maintained, will still bark the tires in second at wot.
  
  I put an entire drivetrain, from the radiator to the rear-yoke, from a 78 300SD (3.0l I-5 turbodiesel w/4sp auto) in my comanche 2x4 pickup.  The truck weight is significantly less than the 300SD, and it shows.  With the engine completely stock (minus the cone filter), I have enough power to pull everything I have hooked to so far (mostly big boats, and pulling is very different than stopping), and have averaged 27mpg.
  
  I hate that I lost that truck to hurricane Katrina, but the engine is salvaged and will probably be put in the jet boat.
  
  I got sidetracked, so for now.... MERCEDES TD'S RULE!!
  
  Ick, i gotta go to bed
• #9 by 2383 GTD on 20 Sep, 2005 11:48
• Here is a burnout with the old chassis, 13 second car:
  
  http://www.chesh.co.uk/moviefiles/244burnout.mpg
• #10 by QuickTD on 20 Sep, 2005 20:18
• What codec is used for that video? I've tried everything. I downloaded it years ago and have never sucessfully played it. All I get is the sound, which is nice BTW.
• #11 by 2383 GTD on 21 Sep, 2005 06:43
• I think it is an mpeg2 codec, but I've never really been able to pinpoint the exact file.  Get media player classic.  I just tried this route on a computer that has only standard windows codecs loaded, and it worked.  It is found here:
  
  http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/guliverkli/mpc2kxp6484.zip?download
  
  and choose your closest or favorite host.  It is free, and it does not even need to be installed.  Let me know if it works out for everyone.
• #12 by OM617 on 05 Feb, 2007 05:23
• Home of the Superturbo Mercedes' in the USA: http://schumanautomotive.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=19
• #13 by RabbitJockey on 05 Feb, 2007 18:12
• Quote from: VWdieseljunkie

  Volvo diesel, as with ANY I-6 diesel that has a single head, it prone to head damage.  The volvo's short coming as far as I am concerned, as well as mercedes' failure.  
  
  I am personally a big mercedes fan myself.  The 3.0 I-5 turbodiesel is by far the most bullet-proof engine I have ever tinkered with.  We like them so much, that we have one in our boat(21' welcraft deep-V), I have one in my jeep comanche http://photobucket.com/albums/y211/vwdieseljunkie/, and we have two boats waiting for a repower as soon as we get motors (25' Seabird jetboat, 30' something-or-other that currently has two 454 sterndrives)
  
  The 300TD's, ick.  Even the turbo'd wagons are pretty doggy, but hey, they are stationwagons.  The 300SD, excellent all around cars.  300D non-turbo is ok, but the 300D turbo, if maintained, will still bark the tires in second at wot.
  
  I put an entire drivetrain, from the radiator to the rear-yoke, from a 78 300SD (3.0l I-5 turbodiesel w/4sp auto) in my comanche 2x4 pickup.  The truck weight is significantly less than the 300SD, and it shows.  With the engine completely stock (minus the cone filter), I have enough power to pull everything I have hooked to so far (mostly big boats, and pulling is very different than stopping), and have averaged 27mpg.
  
  I hate that I lost that truck to hurricane Katrina, but the engine is salvaged and will probably be put in the jet boat.
  
  I got sidetracked, so for now.... MERCEDES TD'S RULE!!
  
  Ick, i gotta go to bed

  
  
  we had one of those commanches at my work, it was the oldest truck they had, had the most miles, but it had the 4.0liter ho straight 6, man that thing ripped, that thing can tear  the tires off with barely touching the gas, and driving in the rain would be unpleasant for anyone who can;t handle a little bit of over steer lol.
• #14 by RabbitJockey on 05 Feb, 2007 18:13
• and if someone wanted to squeeze a volvo td into any vw, i would try putting it in a fox,