landrover pump mTDI, how much tweaking for normal power?.. - mTDI Mechanical TDI Conversions - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• landrover pump mTDI, how much tweaking for normal power?.. by monkey magic on 14 Sep, 2009 14:52
• Hi all,
  
  so, its taken me 12 months to get my mTDI on the road, but now its running it is down on power. My engine is an AHU, running stock turbo, the pump is off an LR 200TDI, timed to 1.65 advance. The pump has had a service, but is ultimately stock. And its all pushing a syncro vanagon...
  
  Problem is, it has no top end. Simple as. Starts instantly, ticks over smoothly, turbo spins up and makes boost nice and quickly, with no smoke at all. The engine seems to pick up just fine, but as the revs climb, power fades quickly.  No top end at all.
  
  So, to all the people on here who run the mechanical landrover pumps on TDI engines: Did you get standard ish power right from the start, or did you have to do a little tweaking to get normal power?
  
  My first stop is to turn the boost pin a little, also, I got the advance setting of 1.65 off here somewhere, anybody running these pumps at a different advance with more success?
  
  Any thoughts and help appreciated.
  
  Monkey Phil 
• #1 by aidan on 14 Sep, 2009 16:41
• Could it be the governor cutting in as with the TD pumps? If you've tried everything else, maybe worth investigating
• #2 by monkey magic on 15 Sep, 2009 07:57
• Hi Aidan,
  
  makes sense, it drives quite nicely, just power drops off quickly. Wasn't sure if people were used to bolting these units straight up and them just working or whether everybody was tweaking before they get get stock power. I'll look into the govener mods, heard of this but know little about it.
  
• #3 by aidan on 15 Sep, 2009 08:14
• Have a look at http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=2300.0
  
  Not the same pump obviously but the theory is the same. Contact oldskoolrich on here also, he's used those pumps and got big power out of them.
• #4 by monkey magic on 15 Sep, 2009 12:15
• Yeah, cheers Aidan, I found that and had a read this afternoon. Don't think I'm confident enough to do that in situ, especially given that my van is finally running after all this time, can't afford to knacker it up!
  
  I'll leave the gov mod for Giles when I send him a unit. Will try tweaking the boost pin I think,. As it is, I can potter around all day, but I would struggle to make it up a decent gradient hill
  
  Anybody else out there running one of these pumps happily without any tweaks required?
• #5 by rolo on 17 Sep, 2009 02:34
• Not a tech expert or anything but acouple of observations/questions. What final drive/dif. is in the syncro (petrol/diesel), are you using a lift pump, have you tried turning the fuel up (can you make it black smoke)? Want it to work well for you. been a while since it wouldn`t start on the pallet.
• #6 by monkey magic on 17 Sep, 2009 15:15
• Hi Rolo,
  
  Yes it is a while since it wouldn't start on a pallet!! For the record it made its way into the van 6 months ago, but has just been made 'useable' in recent weeks..
  
  No I haven't tried turning it up yet, I did have an issue with the accelerator cable (have to force myself to not call it a throttle cable ), I wasn't getting full movement on the lever. Sorted that yesterday, its a definite improvement. It is hard to compare the power though, especially with over a year between driving with the old engine (1.6td) and the new one.
  
  re a lift pump, I don't have one, and aren't convinced it should need one. Won't rule it out as a solution though. Once I've got my egt guage rigged up I will have a play with the boost pin i think, see what i can squeeze out of it as is.
  
  Re the diff, it is the one in the middle of the 5 in the range, 5.43-1 springs to mind, diesel ratios I believe.
  
  I know I need to play with the ratios to get a sensible top speed out of the tdi, but its not the speed thats the issue, it simply seems gutless at high revs. I just expected more.
  
  Now the lever travel is sorted I'll test it at the weekend (see how well it handles a hill). If it is useable, I'll just hold out until I can get Giles to work his magic. If not, I'll start tinkering...
  
  
• #7 by ryanp on 18 Sep, 2009 18:40
• Giles likes these pumps, You have to think the 200/300TDI's are a larger displacement and are built for low rev's hi-torque, the govenor will be coming in before the TDI has started to sing!! just the govenor and some advance mods along with some new .216's and it will fly!!
• #8 by snakemaster on 19 Sep, 2009 08:22
• Quote from: ryanp on 18 Sep, 2009 18:40

  Giles likes these pumps, You have to think the 200/300TDI's are a larger displacement and are built for low rev's hi-torque, the govenor will be coming in before the TDI has started to sing!! just the govenor and some advance mods along with some new .216's and it will fly!!
  

  as ryanp says , all so you could be  short on your gearing diffs  and not taking advantage of torque . you would expect to see 90hp with a std 200/300 pump on a 90hp vw tdi , if you do not want to muck about with the pump you could fit .216 nozzles on your injectors and that would make a nice power increase
• #9 by monkey magic on 19 Sep, 2009 18:05
• Excellent info there guys, many thanks.
  
  You're right about the whole gearing thing, I aim to rectify this with taller tyres (got them but cant fit until my arches are opened out), and a taller diff.
  
  Took the van for a run up a load of hills today, its definitely happier now with the accelerator cable properly set up.
  
  I think I will leave it as is and let Giles do the pump when I can afford it. It's not worth the risk of me cocking it up, and a Giles pump has been on the cards from the start of this project anyway.
  
  Re the nozzles, what is the difference with the 216's over stock? Is it throwing more fuel in, or is it better atomization? Don't want to increase smoke and decrease mpg, the injectors want pulling anyway so I will consider some nice new nozzles..
  
  This time next year, I want this engine to be a monster, but right now I just want it to be driveable and reliable..
• #10 by aidan on 20 Sep, 2009 07:50
• Wouldn't it be worth taking it to a land rover place, or at least looking on their forums? There must be many of them who have modded their pumps in the way you want to, and it must be cheaper to do that than sending it over there?
• #11 by snakemaster on 20 Sep, 2009 15:48
• Quote

  Re the nozzles, what is the difference with the 216's over stock? Is it throwing more fuel in, or is it better atomization? Don't want to increase smoke and decrease mpg, the injectors want pulling anyway so I will consider some nice new nozzles

  
  the .216 have bigger holes , thay put a bit more fuel in , more fuel/air= power , its all down to your right foot , if you need that extra power ,ie to over take , you have it ,  sitting at 60mph with the std nozzles or the .216 will give you the same mpg or more with the .216 if your std ones are goosed
• #12 by monkey magic on 22 Sep, 2009 16:53
• @ Aidan
  
  fair comment, but as you said on here, all the mods we see on the mech pumps on here are common to the landy pumps too, ie governer mod, boost pin, etc.
  
  In the short term, i can probably live with it as is (Once my egt guage is installed i will probably get excited and play with the boost pin) .In the long term though, it wants a full service anyway. I'm doing things to this engine some may consider extreme, including 2.5 inch straight through exhaust, k&n, upgraded nozzles, VNT turbo, flowed head, balanced crank rods pistons etc etc, so I would be daft not to get a custom built pump by Giles. He can achieve more with a pump than we can in our sheds/garages. & I want my bus to be the best it can be..
  
  @ Snakemaster
  
  thanks for that, I will probably speak to giles about what i want to achieve and see exactly what nozzles he recommends for the job. I know there are quite a few options... Nozzles and a tweak of the boost pin will be the next mods i think (got the exhaust and air filter....)
  
  Thanks all, I'll post up when I get to 'the next level' with this project
• #13 by oldskool rich on 25 Sep, 2009 22:30
• i know i was first mentioned the disco pump on here but ive still not had chance to get mine running under boost, problem after problem in my life has stopped this from happening. i used the governer spring form a 1.6 n/a im now considering using a cam plate off an AGR since it has much more lift, does anyone know if that will work??? i messed around with cam plates before and never been successfull, what would i then time it to? apparently the stock governer kicks in about 3500-4000 rpm which is a bit early, got an old diesel tcho, was gona rig the shift light to break the solenoid circuit so the engine will only rev to whatever i set it at. obviously wind the max fuel screw in as far as it will go before it affects ur return to idle, and grind ur boost pin to ***. whats this advance mod that people are chatting about?