Author Topic: Tranny Swap, opinions please  (Read 7770 times)

Reply #15December 05, 2008, 06:14:46 am

8v-of-fury

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Tranny Swap, opinions please
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2008, 06:14:46 am »
hell yeah im in the middle of a gas -> diesel swap.. going N/a tho :P

i will be using the AWY that came with the engine.. while i have the 4K that came outta my car rebuilt and beefed up for when i go TD :)

seriously though.. a TD with a close ratio.. you will be one of the quickest cars in town if you wish to be :P be able to really take advantage of that low end grunt.

Reply #16December 05, 2008, 07:17:46 am

Ziptar

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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2008, 07:17:46 am »
Close Ratio is the way to go! I have an ASF bolted to an Eco. Even without boost it gets rolling really well. Highway is nice with the .75 fifth, ~3,000 RPM @ ~80 MPH. If I ever get an excuse I'll switch it for a .71. that would make it the perfect transaxle IMHO.

Reply #17December 05, 2008, 08:46:21 am

vanbcguy

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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2008, 08:46:21 am »
You guys are making me jealous... I love my wide ratio tranny on the freeway, but I only actually drive on any kind of highway maybe 5% of the time.  My "normal" cruising is all in 3rd gear everywhere...
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #18December 05, 2008, 09:00:14 am

zukgod1

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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2008, 09:00:14 am »
I hav in the back of my head a kinda close ratio trans swap.

I took out of my car a perfectly good AWY which has a 3.94 R&P and a .89 5th.
So around town it was a blast but it was useless on the freeway.

Well I have a FF as well but it has the wrong mounts to bolt in. So, I'm thinking about pulling the .71 5th out of it and swapping it into the AWY.

I would end up with 100 higher RPM's in 5th gear than I have now but it would be WAY more usable around town..
Then I can sell the ACN I have now which is a damn good trans but tall geared for around town.
dan

99 Golf TDI (now CNG powered) , 82 TD Caddy

Reply #19December 05, 2008, 12:18:53 pm

8v-of-fury

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« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2008, 12:18:53 pm »
yeah.. %95 of my driving is in town.. so even with the 1.7 it makes it a good car for in town... still ok on the highway even with the .89.. however with the 1.7 i have the rpm's to be able to manipulate to work for me.. it will be unlikely the same case in the diesel :P but i plan to put a .75 or .71 in it for those rare cruising moments on the hwy.. cuz when i do use it.. its for longer trips.. 2-350 kms.. so it would be useful.. and would be pretty much a 4 speed around town :P woot woot

Reply #20December 05, 2008, 12:41:09 pm

jtanguay

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« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2008, 12:41:09 pm »
yea my ideal tranny would be 4 speeds for in town and 5th for cruising on the highway.

as it stands, my car can go 50-60 in 5th gear around town... engine barely lugs too  :roll: really sucks that 1st gear is almost useless for accelerating though!!! it winds up so fast that it cant even build more than 1-2 psi  :lol: damn i hate this tranny!!!


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Reply #21December 05, 2008, 02:03:26 pm

zukgod1

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« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2008, 02:03:26 pm »
Quote from: "jtanguay"
yea my ideal tranny would be 4 speeds for in town and 5th for cruising on the highway.

as it stands, my car can go 50-60 in 5th gear around town... engine barely lugs too  :roll: really sucks that 1st gear is almost useless for accelerating though!!! it winds up so fast that it cant even build more than 1-2 psi  :lol: damn i hate this tranny!!!



Which one do you have?
dan

99 Golf TDI (now CNG powered) , 82 TD Caddy

Reply #22December 05, 2008, 10:33:02 pm

jtanguay

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« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2008, 10:33:02 pm »
Quote from: "zukgod1"
Quote from: "jtanguay"
yea my ideal tranny would be 4 speeds for in town and 5th for cruising on the highway.

as it stands, my car can go 50-60 in 5th gear around town... engine barely lugs too  :roll: really sucks that 1st gear is almost useless for accelerating though!!! it winds up so fast that it cant even build more than 1-2 psi  :lol: damn i hate this tranny!!!



Which one do you have?


i'm not even sure... maybe i should go look sometime.  i'm almost suspecting that someone did a gasser tranny swap on it (it's that bad) because my '86 jetta TD had some insane gearing and got great mileage despite needing quite a bit of work (just had new rings-not even a hone job)


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Reply #23December 05, 2008, 11:36:43 pm

Dakotakid

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« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2008, 11:36:43 pm »
JT, that almost sounds like a gas AUG code trans....the way you describe it. I've got one of these in my gas 85 Jetta and I want to "shelf" it or shove it....or something!!!!!!!! It's like running a 125 cc motocross bike.
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Reply #24December 06, 2008, 12:37:57 am

Quantum TD

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« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2008, 12:37:57 am »
I've tried a few 4 and 5 speeds. Here are my thoughts, for whatever they're worth.

AWY: Is a piece of *** trans (3.94 R&P and a .89 5th). Even if you swap in a .71 5th gear, the transition from 4th to 5th might make it useless on the highway, unless you've got a TD. I only say this in the instance that you drive on a lot of hills and/or drive in mixed traffic. Shifting from 4th to 5th is a large change, and getting up to speed in 5th may take some time.

FF, FO, FN: These are a nice fit for the 1.6NA (3.89 R&P and .71 or .75 5th). Unfotunately (as some note), they won't fit into a MK2 or later. The gearing on these is really well-suited for both 1.6 NA and TD applications.

4K, 2H; These came on the 83-84 GTi (3.94 R&P and a .89 5th). Yeah, I was dumb enough to try it. HORRIBLE idea. This trans is even worse than the AWY if that's possible. You can't go over 55 in 5th. This means, 48 in 4th is about your max in terms of RPMs.

7A: If you can find one (RARE), this is the best way to go. 3.94 R&P, and .71 5th. A rare score. The best of both worlds. It feels like overdrive in all gears after 2nd gear. This was VW's "4+E" trans that came in the late 1983-84 Rabbit and Jetta (both gas and diesel). So, if you find a stock diesel from those years, check the code. Also, I've pulled a few 7A tranny's from 83-84 Jetta gassers.

AVX:  A bit over-rated in my mind. the 4.25 R&P means quick acceleration. But the .75 5th means the engine is comfortable at about 65-68 MPH. If you can swap in a .71 5th, this might be a great setup, but still second fiddle to the 7A.

AOP, AGS, ACH: These came stock on the 1985-1989 Jetts/Golf in the US (3.94 R&P and a .75 5th). They are a very nice complement to the 1.6 NA. Absolutely no complaints here. Obviously, a .71 5th would make them better, and effectively, they'd be just like a 7A.

ASF, ACN: Nice until you have to accelerate in 1st, or backup. The R&P is so low (3.67), the car loses torque. It's a good fit for 1.6TD and 1.9 TD motors, but not so much any 1.6 NA. The top speed is great, but again, it's similar to the 4-speeds (see below) in that the torque is absent at higher RPMs.  These transmissions are only recommended if you spend 80% or more of your time on the highway and/or you've got a TD.

4-Speeds: There are a few. I haven't memorized the codes, because they all pretty much suck, and it's not worth it. But, if it's got a 3.89 or 3.91 R&P and a .71 4th gear, then yes, they're great on the highway, provided you're not climbing any hills, or have to accelerate up one. If you have one of these trans and are considering a 5-speed swap: simply wait until you find a good deal on the right trans, since these are pretty darn good and not worth swaping out unless you get a REALLY good deal on an FF,FO, FN, 7A, AOP, AGS, ACH, etc, or your motor is really tired and can't push enough torque to acclerate to 65-80 on the highway.

Any 4-speed that came stock on a Rabbit Diesel Pickup (not all the codes appear in the sciroccor.org/gears page) is gonna suck, so don't waste your time. Nearly all had 3.91 or 3.89 Ring and Pinions, and .89 4th gear. This was done for the 'power' aspect that trucks should have. Acceleration to 60 MPH is nice, but you're screamin at 70 MPH.

I guess the bottom line on the 4-speed is: nice at top speed in 4th, but getting there can blow (unless your 4-speed trans is from a Pickup). If your 1.6NA is still in good shape (compression and IP/injectors) and you can push it, then leave it alone and keep the 4-speed.

Bottom line: not all 5-speed swaps are in your best interests. For your  application (original Poster), I'd stay with the FF. Down the road, if you find you want to lower the RPMs, then go with an ACN or and ASF (dime a dozen at most Pick-Your-Part J-yards). With a TD, the 4-speed will pretty much blow, and can't compete with the .71 5th and 3.89 R&P.

Just my $0.02

Reply #25December 06, 2008, 11:30:40 am

Quantum TD

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« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2008, 11:30:40 am »
Quote from: "8v-of-fury"
hell yeah im in the middle of a gas -> diesel swap.. going N/a tho :P

i will be using the AWY that came with the engine.. while i have the 4K that came outta my car rebuilt and beefed up for when i go TD :)

seriously though.. a TD with a close ratio.. you will be one of the quickest cars in town if you wish to be :P be able to really take advantage of that low end grunt.


Bad idea here. If grunt is what you want, I'd say try to find an AVX and swap in a .71 5th. That will give you plenty of grunt around town, and an overdrive 5th on the highway. The 4.25 R&P really keeps power at the pedal.

The AWY and the 4K are essentially the same trans, and you'll be out of gears by the time you hit 55-60 MPH. That's not a good idea for motor longevity.

Reply #26December 08, 2008, 06:41:33 am

DieselSteed

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« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2008, 06:41:33 am »
After reading the last two posts, I feel very fortunate that I have both the FF code and the ACH code trannies for both my Mk1 Caddy and Mk2 Jetta. And thanks for not getting pissed that I listed this under “IDI” and not under “upgrades non engine related”, but the engine for the caddy is being upgraded  to a TD and will be coupled with the tranny in question, so I hope I wasn’t totally in the wrong.

 I wont get rid of the GP. I think I will use the tired NA and the garbage 4 speed and put them in my beat up, rusted out Mk1 Jetta for an off road, beater, let’s go fishing vehicle. Maybe cut off the roof and windshield, weld in a roll bar, remove the doors….
When my lady really wants to get me in the mood, she rubs a little diesel behind her ears.

Reply #27December 08, 2008, 07:20:30 am

zukgod1

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« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2008, 07:20:30 am »
Ya exactly!

I was amazed at the shi*tyness of the AWY that was in my car originally.
No wonder it puked oil out the valve cover on the first drive, poor thing was probably turning 5000 rpm  :shock:

I really like my ACN but would like a tad lower around town gearing. Guess its a good thing 90+% of my driving is freeway.
dan

99 Golf TDI (now CNG powered) , 82 TD Caddy

Reply #28December 08, 2008, 08:57:56 am

DieselSteed

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« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2008, 08:57:56 am »
Amen!
My ’85 parts Jetta came with an AGB… Same as the 4K and 2H code, which may explain the good deal I got for the TD Jetta?($100!) The original owner said he felt he always needed to shift. I now see why. I wouldn’t want to drive this POS on the freeway for fear of the thing exploding. The output shaft on this tranny is about 0.100” more than others I have measured. Just wondering why….
When my lady really wants to get me in the mood, she rubs a little diesel behind her ears.

Reply #29December 08, 2008, 10:42:11 am

theman53

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« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2008, 10:42:11 am »
http://www.ryanrupp.com/album/webpics/02Aswap.pdf

I want to do this someday...maybe you can tell me how it goes :D