Author Topic: Compressor diesel? more power from diesel  (Read 13757 times)

Reply #30March 18, 2008, 05:29:05 pm

Turbinepowered

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Compressor diesel? more power from diesel
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2008, 05:29:05 pm »
Quote from: "Benjamin"

turbo is not free power
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Turbos are not free power, as some will claim. A turbo is a turbine-driven supercharger and to drive something requires horsepower. The turbine needs velocity, volume, heat and pressure to operate. The first three won't make any boost. It's pressure that makes boost. The first three help with greater efficiency. The pressure in a turbo is measured by the difference in intake manifold pressure and exhaust manifold pressure. This is referred to as the exhaust-to-intake pressure ratio. Most turbos operate at a 2:1-to-3:1 ratio, meaning that if 10 psi is in the intake manifold, the exhaust manifold will see 20 to 30 psi. (The GN operated on a 2.5:1 ratio and the 300ZXTT had a 2.7:1 ratio). Some racecars make PR better than 1:1, but they're still making backpressure. Backpressure is a restriction, and a restriction is not free power.


Thus why the word "free" in reference to the turbocharger boost was in quotations, to indicate that I was simply referencing, not laying claim.

I fully realize that you can't get something from nothing (Which would be the full application of the term "Free" in reference to boost generation), but the turbocharger is still more efficient even if only by sheer virtue of a reduction in the number of state changes that must be made to supply the desired output.

It is also "Free" in that it tends to avoid a great many of the parasitic loss points associated with mechanically driven forced induction setups, such as the belts, pulleys, gears, chains, or whatever else you use to drive the setup. Yes, you have the increased exhaust backpressure over a mechanically driven supercharger (which places no restriction in the exhaust), but this is offset by other factors which increase the turbocharger's efficacy over the supercharger under the conditions where the turbo is more desirable (typically, mid-range and top-end power. I don't think I've ever seen a turbo used to boost low-end power specifically).

Reply #31March 18, 2008, 06:07:36 pm

KTZed

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Compressor diesel? more power from diesel
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2008, 06:07:36 pm »
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I don't think I've ever seen a turbo used to boost low-end power specifically


Have you driven any turbocharged VW/Audi product gas or diesel lately?....1500rpm torque peaks, VNT15's and K03's FTW  :roll:

Seriously I think VW has a tiny turbo complex or something.

Now my 1.6td with a T3 on the other hand.....I think....maybe...possibly...ok waaaaaaiiit....oh theres some boost.
'85 2d Golf + 1.6TD - Winter daily driver on the build
'73 Datsun 240Z - Summer daily driver/autox racer

Reply #32March 18, 2008, 06:44:57 pm

Turbinepowered

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Compressor diesel? more power from diesel
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2008, 06:44:57 pm »
Quote from: "KTZed"
Quote
I don't think I've ever seen a turbo used to boost low-end power specifically


Have you driven any turbocharged VW/Audi product gas or diesel lately?....1500rpm torque peaks, VNT15's and K03's FTW  :roll:

Seriously I think VW has a tiny turbo complex or something.

Now my 1.6td with a T3 on the other hand.....I think....maybe...possibly...ok waaaaaaiiit....oh theres some boost.


Actually... no, I haven't. I've driven a K24 1.6TD, which was just like that. Never been in a TDI, never been in a car powered by a 1.9TD with a K03.

Now, was the turbocharger on a TDI put there to increase low end, or to increase top-end power with the added effect of increasing low end as well? I've driven NA diesels that were torque peaking @ 1500rpm out of 4k RPM; that's just a diesel talking, not the turbo's function.

Reply #33March 18, 2008, 11:01:56 pm

KTZed

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« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2008, 11:01:56 pm »
Even the VW gas engines like the 1.8T...tiny turbo. I think what the OEMs are going for is making a small fuel efficient engine feel like a bigger engine with low end torque by fitting a tiny turbo. People hate small engines and turbo lag...at least here in America we apparently do.
'85 2d Golf + 1.6TD - Winter daily driver on the build
'73 Datsun 240Z - Summer daily driver/autox racer

Reply #34March 19, 2008, 08:56:53 am

TedV

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Compressor diesel? more power from diesel
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2008, 08:56:53 am »
TDi turbo is small and driving it feels like driving a V6. Instant torque and lots of it.  but about the time it gets really fun, it's time to shift.  Could also be the 1.9 not so high red line motor. In traffic drivability is better with small turbo compared to a biger one, even tho the bigger one can net you more power.... eventually

Reply #35July 24, 2008, 07:09:48 am

gigaz2

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Compressor diesel? more power from diesel
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2008, 07:09:48 am »
"people buy horsepower but drive torque"

thats why a 90hp old tdi is more enjoyable to drive as a daily driver than a vr6. the 110hp with that tiny vnt15 is even better.

basically everybody needs small turbos in their golfs, but always want the bigger ones, then *** around because of the lag, and smoke on low revs, and lack of power when off boost...
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