best turbo

[oldskool rich]

guys its just a forum :oops:

sorry to go off at a tangent but why dont people use superchargers?

or even a supercharger and a turbo?

im trying to build a very strange aaz for my mk1 rocco and my plan is to run a supercharger with custom pullys to produce stupid boost at very low rpm then at high rpm it will disengage whilst the turbo off a lorry will take over also nos to get enough fuel in to make use of all that boost

does that sound silly or am i on to sumthin?

[stewardc]

I don't see why a supercharger wouldn't work. GM diesels all used them for years, though they were strange 2-strokes. They also used turbos feeding superchargers and it worked great. Normally, a SC produces more power (torque) down low...at least it does on a gasoline engine.

[oldskool rich]

i understand that the supercharger sucks power from the engine and that turbos are running on waste gass but trouble is that at low revs theres not enough waste gas to build boost quick enough

my plan make sum custom pullys so that the charger was running about 10psi at about 1000rpm then cuts off about 3000 before it blows up by which time the massive turbo is spinning.

anyone know what superchager i should be looking for? it needs to produce about 35-40 psi oh and be cheap

[rallydiesel]

VW already has an engine with a turbo and supercharger. The purpose is exactly what you said, the SC builds boost immediately and the TC takes over at high rpm. It is a gas engine. Diesels have a "simpler" option in the VNT turbo which essentially does the same thing (can be a small, fast spooling turbo AND a high rpm turbo) without the parasitic drag of the supercharger. Gassers don't have the option of this luxury cuz their higher EGT's will deform the vanes of the VNT.

[Powered by Spearco]

I have a Garrett turbo with the PN of TA0304. Is that the same thing as a T3 turbo or just a TA0304?  :roll:

[jtanguay]

i understand that the supercharger sucks power from the engine and that turbos are running on waste gass but trouble is that at low revs theres not enough waste gas to build boost quick enough

my plan make sum custom pullys so that the charger was running about 10psi at about 1000rpm then cuts off about 3000 before it blows up by which time the massive turbo is spinning.

anyone know what superchager i should be looking for? it needs to produce about 35-40 psi oh and be cheap

thats where VNT turbo's come into play.  they can make crazy boost at low rpm's (jake's VNT rabbit was making boost at idle, and blipping the throttle he was able to produce a few psi (maybe 5 psi?) of boost.  for the amount of work and headaches to get a supercharger to work (efficiently) why not just go with the mechanical linkages like Tintin had?

also the reason for the VNT turbo's being unreliable are high egt's, and other soot related issues.  if you run a vnt on a high sooted engine it will obviously clog up much quicker than a regular stock TDI.  cheap oils, clogged intakes & vanes, foreign objects, and high EGT's due to all of the previously mentioned are probably the most common reasons for the VNT turbo failure.

best idea when switching to a VNT is to run a big exhaust and ditch the EGR system.  modifying the pump to run as little black smoke as possible would also help.  actuating the vanes after a good run can also help 'clean' the turbo out. (while the engine is running so any crap gets blown out the tailpipe)

after watching Tintin's video of his VNT-20 i'm hooked.  his boost gauge spiked 20 psi like my K24 spikes 5 psi...  there's no contest.  can a supercharger even compare?

add a VNT turbo with some passenger performance manifolds and a large downpipe to let it breathe properly, and you'll have one sweet ride!


lol... supercharger = pwned

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1925907202892093863

it just boosts so easily...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2328693919539972270

i just don't see why anyone would bother with an SC.  maybe if you have a lot of money lying around... but still.  the best part about this setup is the free flowing of the VNT when the vanes are not actuated.  when your foot isn't on it, the vanes let the gases flow past, making it lest restrictive, and making it act more like a non turbo.  basically power-on-demand.

[carrizog60]

that videos ara on a M tdi...
will the results be similar on a 1.6 idi gfor example?

and how would the tranny and clutch behave to that increased boost?

[MJF]

that videos ara on a M tdi...
will the results be similar on a 1.6 idi gfor example?

Yep, it will. VNT20 spools much better than stock K24 ot T3 and is still "bigger" for performance.

[jtanguay]

my favourite part is when Tintin blips the throttle, at idle mind you, and nearly hits 30 psi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :shock:

i would say that with the right fueling and injection pump mods, that one could reproduce these results on an IDI.  remember that the TDI engines supposedly run 'cooler' because of combustion efficiency, and so our IDI's have more 'heat' to spool the turbo...  

can't find a video where he shows boost, but this is a VNT-20 on a 1.6TD!

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=dCOJ8afz9oA&NR=1

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=2p9skPj8b14&feature=related  is that a boost gauge?  can't read it properly... it looks like one but the boost isn't moving so well...  looks underfueled to me.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=hzaqBfKPa50&NR=1  these guys actually used some sort of vacuum device to control the vanes... almost looks like its from cruise control... it would work, but would it be as quick as pedal response???  i doubt it would be as accurate unless calibrated properly as well... pretty interesting stuff on the Fr youtube!

[stewardc]

A simple question has been raised regarding exhaust temperatures. What is the difference in EGTs between IDI, TDI and Gasoline?

[Patrick]

Sorry, can't answer that. I'd assume that the gassers would be the highest, (at normal operating speeds, not "hammer on it mode) they run the richest.

I've got a question for you. severa; of you have already done the T3/AAZ thing, the only thing that I see that's not bolt in is the oil return line. Did you cut up two return lines to make one, or have something custom made? Keep thinking I should do this one, all the parts are just sitting here........

[stewardc]

Sorry, can't answer that. I'd assume that the gassers would be the highest, (at normal operating speeds, not "hammer on it mode) they run the richest.

I've got a question for you. severa; of you have already done the T3/AAZ thing, the only thing that I see that's not bolt in is the oil return line. Did you cut up two return lines to make one, or have something custom made? Keep thinking I should do this one, all the parts are just sitting here........

A 1.6 top with a 1.9 bottom connected by a piece of hose is what's on my T3/AAZ right now, but it will be replaced by a custom hose next summer.

[Patrick]

Did you put it into a 1.6 pan, or will it hook to the block?

[stewardc]

Hooked to the block.

[oldskool rich]

i just used a 1.6 pan/sump

ok so vnt is the way forward, but sounds to me like id go through about 1 per week so its out of the question for me, as i hav no money just friends with a scrap yard and doubtfull id find loads of these, i thort up an easyer way to get rid of lag, all you need is old scraps of metal an alternator and a bit of time,

esentualy atatch a shaft to the turbine in the turbo and then take the clutch wheel off a tdi alternator and uve got a super charger that when the engine produces enough gasses will then turn into a turbo :wink:

i call it the superturbo :idea:
 
did i just invent sumthin?