Author Topic: Timing Belt keeps coming off track (no 56k, Problem Solved!) (Read 13057 times)

riddleyo · « **on:** March 29, 2008, 05:43:26 pm »

Hello,

I bought my vw diesel golf 1.6 N/A with a bad cylinder head. I replaced the cylinder head with a 11mm head but had the bolt holes drilled out to 12mm.

Today, I put everything back together and timed the IP following Vince Waldon's site and the bentley manual. I set the tension so that I can turn the belt between the camshaft pulley and the injection pump pulley about 45 degrees. I torqued the camshaft pulley to 36 ft/lbs. My problem is, as I turn the crankshaft with my ratchet, nothing is binding, but the timing belt with run off track after 1 or 2 turns!! My pictures are worth a thousand words:

Right after I put the Timing belt on:

After 2 revolutions, IP pulley tracking off:

After 2 revolutions, Intermediate shaft ridges tearing timing belt:

Does anyone know whats wrong? Does my 11mm head stick the camshaft pulley too far out causing the tracking problems? How do I fix this so when I start it, my timing belt doesn't shred and destroy the engine!??

zukgod1 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 29, 2008, 06:59:35 pm »

looks to me like your IP is sitting crooked.

Bent bracket of IP is somehow cocked in the bracket, maybe not bolted to head square..

burn_your_money · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2008, 10:07:08 pm »

Is there play in the IM shaft pulley? This would indicate worn out IM bearings which will also give you low oil pressure

Did you have this problem with the old head?

Quantum TD · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2008, 12:40:08 am »

As noted above: I'd say check for bent bracket. I've never experienced one myself, but there have been reports of bent brackets here on the GTD.

As burn notes, check Intermediate shaft, maybe also check your injection pump for play at the input shaft.

Those three are bout the only things I can think of that would cause the runout, unless your camshaft were bent. But I don't think you'd see that much runout on a bent camshaft.

fatmobile · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2008, 04:42:07 am »

Loosen the tensioner and grab the injection pump sprocket. Move it side to side, see how much play it has.
Is the pump completly bolted down? because the sprocket looks slanted compared to the bracket,... kinda from the top view.
Good thing you turned it by hand first. :thumbup

Dsldub · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2008, 07:46:08 am »

edited for content

myke_w · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2008, 11:22:15 am »

So, you bought the car with a bad head... like as in the belt shredded and bent valves?

I've seen this very thing caused by a worn pump bushing because of over tightening of the belt and eventually the edge of the belt shreds up and the owner doesnt know until the car stops, belt breaks, bends valves, etc.

So you gotta take the belt back off and rock the pump gear and the int shaft pulley side to side like these guys are suggesting... I've heard of the bent mount theory, but never seen it personally, I think to bend that mount you'd need gargantuan strength, catastrophic accident damage or a lot of torch heat. It doesn't bend on it's own I assure you. The whole length of it is curved on the edges, its one tough mother.

Keep us posted..

riddleyo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2008, 10:28:55 pm »

I tried jerking around the pulleys, there is no play in the IM shaft pulley or the IP pulley. It didn't look like the IP bracket was bent, but I will take it apart and put a straight edge on it to see...

The pump was completely bolted down, I tightened the bolts pretty tight.

The previous owner said the cyl head was bad when I bought it. After I took it all apart, I found that some of the cam followers were stuck inside their bores. After taking them out with a hammer and magnet, they broke and some of the cam follower pieces look welded to the cylinder head! I haven't checked for bent valves, I just got another cylinder head and rebuilt it and put it on.

I will try taking everything apart, checking for play, doing what the tech service bulletin says, and post again after I get it back together.

Thanks!

rabbitman · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2008, 04:20:44 am »

I had that problem only not nearly as bad. Putting a straight edge across all the pulley's should tell you what's up, but when I did it I missed the play in the IP shaft the first time, it got so bad I couldn't stand driving it 'cause the belt was starting to hang over the pulley so I checked every thing again and the IP play wasn't much but that was all it took.
Try putting your thumbs at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock on the IP pulley and then rocking it back and forth, I know you did this but I can't see any other reason for it running so far off track. Hope you figure it out.

Dsldub · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2008, 08:00:21 am »

edited for content

Black Smokin' Diesel · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2008, 07:33:52 pm »

Looks like your IP pulley isn't straight. Try loosening it and retightening it to spec. I had the same problem and it was the pulley.

You can also get a intermediate shaft pulley from a later 1.6 or 1.9, it doesn't have raised edges.

rabbitman · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2008, 07:50:26 pm »

I just noticed mine is heading off center again also :evil: Maybe I need to have someone else tighten the belt for me. :oops: sorry I almost stole the thread :roll:

subsonic · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2008, 10:06:54 pm »

The key all good?

burn_your_money · « **Reply #13 on:** April 01, 2008, 12:21:17 am »

the tensioner bolt is straight?

Torchd · « **Reply #14 on:** April 01, 2008, 07:34:42 am »

The tensioner stud mite be loose... or bent... a loose stud messed up three of my timing belts!