Author Topic: PLEASE HELP - GREENBELT VW IS SCREWING ME OVER!!!  (Read 14073 times)

Reply #15December 30, 2004, 09:31:28 pm

srivett

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PLEASE HELP - GREENBELT VW IS SCREWING ME OVER!!!
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2004, 09:31:28 pm »
I just remembered something that's in my owners manual.  If the dealer is being a hard ass you can contact VW Canada directly.  They will try to resolve things through arbitration or down right tell the dealer to shape up.

Steve
1992 1.6D Golf - 412K km
Mint except for chipped paint, no rust :)

Reply #16December 31, 2004, 12:16:08 pm

asau

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PLEASE HELP - GREENBELT VW IS SCREWING ME OVER!!!
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2004, 12:16:08 pm »
i have had similar diffculties with my local vw dealer, to get parts for my aaz i pretty much have to have the part number before hand. the first time i went in there and told them i had an aaz motor they told me to take it back to canada to get it repaired and for parts  :evil:.

now toyota on the other hand has been GREAT they have copied the sevice manual pages for me back when i didn't have one, or even when i just had a small question they would always help me out :)

Reply #17January 03, 2005, 10:34:53 am

dieseltech

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PLEASE HELP - GREENBELT VW IS SCREWING ME OVER!!!
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2005, 10:34:53 am »
Quote from: "vwmike"
Not that I'm taking sides, but if your fan doesn't work on low speed, it won't work on high either. It needs the momentum of the fan moving on low to be able to speed up to the high setting.

Also, it could be burning oil because it overheated.

One thing that really hurts your case is that you took it in the middle of the night. It would be one thing to show up and get their ok and drive off and have these problems, but they can claim it wasn't finished or something which will definitely not be beneficial to your claims.


the fan will work on either speed does not need low to get to high. pop your hood open and try for yourself with some clip leads to the battery.
you can start the fan in high speed no problem
86 td jetta power everything dd (update off the road for major resto).  97tdi bare bones, DD
and a private junkyard of various other vw/audi/bmw/peugeot/volvo/toyota diesels!!!
Cummins has the worlds record for being the most efficient engine ever!!!!!
for converting fuel into noise!

Reply #18January 04, 2005, 12:55:56 am

dieseltech

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PLEASE HELP - GREENBELT VW IS SCREWING ME OVER!!!
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2005, 12:55:56 am »
Quote from: "vwmike"
Not that I'm taking sides, but if your fan doesn't work on low speed, it won't work on high either. It needs the momentum of the fan moving on low to be able to speed up to the high setting.

Also, it could be burning oil because it overheated.

One thing that really hurts your case is that you took it in the middle of the night. It would be one thing to show up and get their ok and drive off and have these problems, but they can claim it wasn't finished or something which will definitely not be beneficial to your claims.


the fan will work on either speed does not need low to get to high. pop your hood open and try for yourself with some clip leads to the battery.
you can start the fan in high speed no problem
86 td jetta power everything dd (update off the road for major resto).  97tdi bare bones, DD
and a private junkyard of various other vw/audi/bmw/peugeot/volvo/toyota diesels!!!
Cummins has the worlds record for being the most efficient engine ever!!!!!
for converting fuel into noise!

Reply #19January 05, 2005, 01:49:38 am

dieseltech

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PLEASE HELP - GREENBELT VW IS SCREWING ME OVER!!!
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2005, 01:49:38 am »
Quote from: "vwmike"
Not that I'm taking sides, but if your fan doesn't work on low speed, it won't work on high either. It needs the momentum of the fan moving on low to be able to speed up to the high setting.

Also, it could be burning oil because it overheated.

One thing that really hurts your case is that you took it in the middle of the night. It would be one thing to show up and get their ok and drive off and have these problems, but they can claim it wasn't finished or something which will definitely not be beneficial to your claims.


the fan will work on either speed does not need low to get to high. pop your hood open and try for yourself with some clip leads to the battery.
you can start the fan in high speed no problem
86 td jetta power everything dd (update off the road for major resto).  97tdi bare bones, DD
and a private junkyard of various other vw/audi/bmw/peugeot/volvo/toyota diesels!!!
Cummins has the worlds record for being the most efficient engine ever!!!!!
for converting fuel into noise!

Reply #20January 06, 2005, 05:59:18 pm

stevenrossi

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PLEASE HELP - GREENBELT VW IS SCREWING ME OVER!!!
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2005, 05:59:18 pm »
Well Fella's -- i've faxed over a letter to VW Canada - its be nearly a full work week and i've gotten no reply, me or my Father.

goes like this (pre-edited version)

Quote
To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Steven Rossi, I own a 1994 Volkswagen Golf 4 Door Turbo Diesel Indirect Injection (Vehicle Identification Number 3VWFP01H6RM082284). The car was purchased, with a clean title, certified and emissions tested though a car dealership during the spring of 2004 with 174 000KM on the original engine. I purchased a Volkswagen Diesel for a multitude of reasons, the main ones being:

1.   Low Operating Costs (fuel, insurance, and repairs)
2.   Reliability
3.   High Praises for service and support

Pervious to purchasing this vehicle I had done plenty of research into the common weaknesses and strengths of both Volkswagen and this generation IDI Turbo Diesel in particular, these cars were said to be practically indestructible (with regular oil changes and timing belt changes every 80 000KM – 100 000KM). More over, let me introduce myself with more detail. I’ve been working, intensively, in the Automotive Parts industry for nearly 3 years now and prior to that I was nothing short of a car fanatic. I currently stand as the Aftermarket Sales Manager and Coordinator of New Parts and Operations at Standard Auto Wreckers in Scarborough Ontario; needless to say I work quite closely with the some of the largest service centers in Ontario, that said, I am not only very fluent with Automotive Parts I also must know every part of every car and its relationship and function within that automobile. Once purchasing this car, I was surprised on how well it drove for a car over 10 years old. Throughout the months, I invested into a few minor maintenance related repairs, nothing was wrong with the car; I’m just a large proponent of preventative maintenance. I knew that I should get my timing belt replaced before the cold weather of the winter arrived; a snapped timing belt is far more serious with the high compression Turbo Diesel engine then with most other cars. With my father already having invested nearly $100 000 with Greenbelt Volkswagen and never having any serious qualms, I decided that I would take my Turbo Diesel to the highly acclaimed service technicians at Greenbelt. That takes us up to the matter at hand.

On November 16th, 2004, my serpentine belt had slipped off of my belt tensioner (which is to be changed along with the timing belt) and left my car stranded, I decided that it would be a good idea to have my Volkswagen towed into Greenbelt and have my timing belt changed, as well as the rear wheel bearings (both of which are supposed to be done at the same time). I had my car brought in the evening of the 17th and had a quote compiled of all the things that should be done. Needless to say, I chose Greenbelt because I had faith that they were, without a doubt, the best Volkswagen Technicians in the Greater Toronto Area. I knew hundreds of Mechanics who could have done the same work for a fraction of the cost, but who wouldn’t agree with me in saying its worth every penny knowing you’ll have it done right the first time, going to Greenbelt, for me, was investing in peace of mind – it has proven to be the biggest mistake in my adult life.

Before I continue, let’s establish a very well known fact about Diesel Motors, they run at much lower operating temperatures than any typical Gasoline fueled engine, it’s a commonly known fact. It’s always been said, a Diesel motor may take a long time to heat up, but once it gets going they’re unstoppable. It would typically take about 15KM of driving before my Turbo Diesel (as well as my fathers two TDI’s) would even begin warm up. It’s even been documented on some of the Online Forums of some Diesel owners trying to fabricate a “kill switch” for the cooling motors so to let their Diesel motors heat up quicker in the winter months. That said, let’s continue…after the Greenbelt had 24 hours from the original date of receiving the car, I decided to go in and speak to Travis (service representative) to decide on what work was to be done on my vehicle. After some discussion it was agreed upon that the following things would be done on the car:

•   Examine for any Oil Leaks
•   Oil / Filter Change
•   Timing Belt, Belt Tensioner, and Water Pump Change
•   Rear Wheel Bearings to be replaced (with new)
•   Rear Brake Shoes to be replaced (with new)

It was also agreed that I would supply my own parts from a much respected NEW Volkswagen / Audi parts retailer (Frisco Auto Parts). The go ahead was given on the 18th of November and service was to begin on the 19th. I assumed (through the Mitchell Books hour guide) that it would take no more than 2 full days to have the work order completed on my vehicle. As the days progressed later into the week, I had rarely heard any updated or received any calls from the service representatives letting me know what the progress on my car was, when I took the time out of my day to call I consistently heard nothing but “I don’t know” and “I’ll call you back” (which he never ONCE did) from a gentlemen by the name of Leroy – I’d hate to think that any representative of Volkswagen does not know the status on one of the cars they are servicing, in fact, at one point he I had to convince him that my car was even in for service. As it moved into the weekend I became less hopeful that I’d receive my car back within any acceptable time frame, it had already been at least 3 days. After many calls I was told to pickup my car after service hours on the 23rd of November, 4 working days (6 full days) after it had originally been brought in for service. At that point my brother had driven me to pick it up (during the cold night of November 23rd, 2004); I paid the outstanding balance ($1,231.61), got the keys to my car from the receptionist and began to drive my car home. Before I had reached 7600 Kennedy Rd (Milliken Mills Community Center – exactly 1.94689KM away) I had noticed a vague ‘burning’ smell coming from my vents, at that moment I realized that my temperature light was on and that my temperature gauge indicated that my engine was a FULL temperature (running double it’s regular temperature). The engine then shut off and I coasted into the parking lot, endangering my life and the drivers around me. My brother then pulled into the parking lot and witnessed that the temperature gauge was maxed and my engine had severely overheated. I called a tow truck driver (who also witnessed the smell and knew that my engine had overheated) and he towed my car back to the service department (the night of November 23rd 2004 – at my own expense).

At this point I found myself in a state of shock. I had been treated very improperly, as if though me and/or my car did not matter to the people of Volkswagen, and on top of that, my safety and my car had been put at risk with improper service, it’s clear that something tremendously wrong had been either done or overlooked during the service on my Golf which in turn has compromised the integrity of my drive train.

Engine overheating can occur for a multitude of reasons, some of them being

•   Non-Functioning Thermostat
•   Vapor Lock
•   Low Coolant
•   (typically) warm weather conditions with high engine stress

…for an Volkswagen Golf Turbo Diesel to heat up, let alone overheat within 2-4 minutes (2KM) of operation means an integral part of service was overlooked. Further more, with overheating comes compromised engine integrity, some of the following problems can occur with an engine overheat…

•   Crank Shaft Rod Bearing Failure
•   Head Gasket Failure
•   Piston Ring Failure
•   Cracked Cylinder Head
•   Cracked Engine Block
(Just to list a few)

The following day I called Greenbelt to speak to the service representative, this was at some point in the early afternoon, they had plenty of time to look at it – they hadn’t. I began to become very weary and upset with this treatment, it became painfully obviously that not only was Greenbelt reluctant to service my car, when something had gone wrong, they didn’t seem to hard-pressed to resolve the situation, everyday without my car was a day that I was not able to go to work. I decided, at that point, to contact the service manger. The service manager was, by far and undoubtedly the rudest individual I had spoken to yet. When I told him the situation he implied two things

A)   He did not believe that my car had overheated
B)   He did not have time to solve this problem with me


The service manger, at that point, didn’t show any sense of customer care and told me that he had other pressing issues to tend to and that he would have another of his employees to contact me within the hour. It was already expected that no one would contact me, so a few hours later I contacted Leroy again, and he told me they had found the problem. The low-speed fan “thermo switch” was not functioning which caused the engine to overheat – essentially, the fan would only function on high speed (which is what was quoted said by the service representative) and it would cost me $45.32 to change. I asked Leroy how it could be conceivably possible for my low speed fan switch to break at exactly the same time I picked it up and how my fans operating at their highest (most cooling power) speeds could cause my engine to overheat, he had no explanation. Furthermore, it then took two full days (from that point on) to change this switch, which was suspect.

Since November 25th 2004 I took my car back after this whole ordeal and I’ve learnt that the service department and the service at Greenbelt Volkswagen was of the lowest customer quality and was been, by far, the worst experience of my life. As I suspected, and which holds true with all overheated engines, the integrity of my Turbo Diesel Indirect Injection Engine has been compromised and it is now parked in my garage, un-drivable. The engine profusely burns oil (which it had never done once before) and from that day forward has only been driven about ˝ a tank, before I realized that it was burning oil. Am I to believe that spending $1500 ($1300 of which was at Greenbelt Volkswagen) to repair a car at a reputable Volkswagen dealership has lead me to lose nearly 1 week or work, caused plenty of unnecessary stress, and most importantly has left me without a drivable car, of which Greenbelt claims no responsibility? As an Co-Coordinator of one of the largest automobile wreckers in Ontario and a active member of the automobile parts and service society in the GTA should I spend this day forward warning the hundreds of automobile service technicians and thousands of automobile enthusiasts that I am in direct contact with on a regular basis about this fiasco that took place at Greenbelt, or will you do the right thing and have the damage caused to my car, as a direct reaction to the poor service, repaired.  

Sincerely

Steven Rossi
[email protected]
Tel. (416) 473-****






How long should I wait to be contacted???

SR

Reply #21January 07, 2005, 01:24:46 am

ricosuave

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PLEASE HELP - GREENBELT VW IS SCREWING ME OVER!!!
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2005, 01:24:46 am »
I'd also send a copy of that letter to the better buisiness bureau, the local paper, tv news, etc., and any mechanic governing certification place in your area as well.

im very sorry for you.

i hope things work out in your favour in the end.

rico
Now: 00 2dr Golf TDI, 03 Jetta Wagon TDI, 02 2500HD Duramax - :)
Then: 69 SC Transporter, 84 Rabbit GTI, 87 Fox GL, 91 Golf IDI, 96 Passat Wagon TDI, 97 Jetta IDI - :(
"Everything I save by driving diesel I put back due to poor German engineering and crappy Mexican workmanship!"   :P

Reply #22January 07, 2005, 06:13:06 pm

stevenrossi

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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2005, 06:13:06 pm »
Quote from: "ricosuave"
I'd also send a copy of that letter to the better buisiness bureau, the local paper, tv news, etc., and any mechanic governing certification place in your area as well.

im very sorry for you.

i hope things work out in your favour in the end.

rico


I really appreciate your support, i've now lost my job since I cant drive the car...it's gotten personal. Does anyone know how i can get this story out to local and city papers (in toronto?)


SR

Reply #23January 09, 2005, 12:56:32 pm

stevenrossi

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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2005, 12:56:32 pm »
More news, In order to keep my job I’m going to spend at least $1500 to get the engine rebuilt from top to bottom w/ new clutch. I am then going to take Greenbelt VW to small claims court and sue them for the total amount spent for their ignorance. I even called them to ask them to send me a copy of the invoices (because I had lost my own), to which I am legally obligated to receive upon request, and they cannot find them. I have bank statements and work orders, but no invoice from them....you tell me how that’s going to make them look in front of the judge? The mechanic who will be rebuilding the engine said it was probably air-lock in the cylinder head that caused it to overheat and he doesn’t really know what the problem is until he looks @ it (Monday morning).

Keep your fingers crossed!

SR

Reply #24January 09, 2005, 09:02:08 pm

lord_verminaard

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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2005, 09:02:08 pm »
Dont you mean a $3500 rebuild?   :twisted:
All kidding aside, it's good to hear that you may have a solution on the horizon.  My guess is that Greenbelt VW will probably settle out of court once they see that you are serious about reporting them.

Keep us updated and good luck.

Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
81 Scirocco 'S -->Soon to be m-TDI
93 Corrado SLC VR6
'86 Golf N/A Diesel  -->Wife's car
1990 Audi CQ
05 New Beetle PD TDI


"I am a man, I can change... if I have to.... I guess....."

-Red Green

Reply #25January 10, 2005, 12:52:37 am

stevenrossi

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« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2005, 12:52:37 am »
Quote from: "lord_verminaard"
Dont you mean a $3500 rebuild?   :twisted:
All kidding aside, it's good to hear that you may have a solution on the horizon.  My guess is that Greenbelt VW will probably settle out of court once they see that you are serious about reporting them.

Keep us updated and good luck.

Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49


I work at a local wrecking yard (standard auto wreckers), we've got an on-staff diesel mech whos job for the next week is to get my block rebuilt, it'll probably cost me under $1000...im gonna do everything to make sure it's fresh...then im going to expose them on the local (CH. 7 - City TV) news for the stunt they pulled...after that im gonna sue them for $3200 (cost of rebuild, time lost at work, and cost of origional service tht they messed up) ---- im the punisher for shotty service. This is gonna be juicy...

SR

Reply #26January 12, 2005, 02:30:44 am

stevenrossi

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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2005, 02:30:44 am »
Could an overheat damage the turbo?

SR

Reply #27January 12, 2005, 04:21:22 am

jtanguay

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« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2005, 04:21:22 am »
very hard to say if an overheat could damage the turbo...  Overboosting, possibly.

If the engine is already being re-built, you could at least check for shaft play.  From my own opinion I would say that the only thing that may cause damage from overheat is the oil since it is linked up from the engine.  But hot oil is good for the turbo so I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't damage it.  Can EGT damage the turbo? (I'm guessing it could if hot enough... but would an engine overheat be able to create THAT much heat???)


This is how we deal with porn spammers! You've been warned.

Reply #28January 12, 2005, 08:43:04 am

stevenrossi

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« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2005, 08:43:04 am »
Hmmm, well the onsite mechanic is having a look at it and tells me that it's been literally shooting oil from the area around the turbo...could be a seal. He'll have a closer look at it, I just know it just started doing this after the overheating.  :? ... we'll see what happens.

Reply #29January 12, 2005, 03:24:28 pm

BlackTieTD

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« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2005, 03:24:28 pm »
not much time to reply.. in class.... but two things...

a) my fan has been pooched in the TD since the spring... i drove it all summer long with no fan EVER always watching the temp and it never got within 1 tick of red at any time (and it gets flogged)

b) this is why you dont ever go to the dealer. i payed $550 once to get my waterpump changed in the corrado (before i learned my lesson)... only to have the alternator come loose on the way home and the pulley grind on the bracket.... there was only one bolt holding it on. i brought it back the dealer within 10 mins of leaving the lot and was told "sorry, there is no one available to look at that today" on the last day of my trip permit, when they already had the car 3 days when they said it would take 1. i now realize a waterpump is like an hour job and you dont even need to take the alternator/G60 out to get at it... you can get it from the bottom  :roll:

bottom line, they are in business to make money, just like everyone else. no one will respect your car as much as you will... get a bentley and some tools  :D

edit: Dr. D is a good alternative to doing the work yourself if its beyond your skills.