Author Topic: Dr. D's helpful winter starting tips  (Read 4913 times)

November 02, 2004, 05:47:24 am

Dr. Diesel

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Dr. D's helpful winter starting tips
« on: November 02, 2004, 05:47:24 am »
If you're finding, or expecting to find it difficult to start the old rattlebox in the cold, these tips may help.

Compression is your best friend. Consider a valve job, or entire rebuild. Perhaps in the past, too thick a head gasket was installed? I've found engine RESTORE does help compression a little bit.  

Ensure your glowplugs are ALL functional, your timing is correct and your coldstart mechanism works.
Know your engine. Every one is different. One of my cars likes to be started with the coldstart knob in, and as it starts to cough and bark, slowly pull the knob out as it comes to life, but not before. Another likes the knob pulled out from the beginning.
Block heaters work wonders.
Avoid ether.
Keep a tow strap and a good set of booster cables in the trunk.
Use a good quality winter fuel additive, such as stanadyne. (Giles sells it cheaper than the dealer)

Glowplugs continue to burn after the light goes off. Don't crank the engine until you hear the plug relay click off. (15 sconds after light-out on my car) This will allow battery voltage to recover, giving you faster crank speeds. A fast cranking speed is critical.
After it starts, if it's rough and smokey, you can quickly flick the key off and on (don't hit the starter again!) to put the plugs through another cycle and smooth out the idle. Use throttle to maintain the minimum steady idle. Don't rev the crap out of it.

In bad cases, you might have to towstrap it in gear (key on) to get it to light off.

One surefire method I've used in the past is to power the starter motor with 24v. This is less trouble than the towstrap method and can be done alone.
Keep a spare battery in the trunk with your jumper cables. (give it a charge now and then!)
Modify your positive battery cable terminal. Purchase the type that has a stud and wingnut. Always keep the alternator output, fusepanel power wire and other power consumers  attached to this stud, which stays at 12v.
Make a 10-12" jumper wire with an appropriate female spade terminal at one end and bare wires or another terminal at the other end. Should be 8-10 gauge. This jumper will trigger the starter solenoid with 24v. Triggering a 24v starter motor with only 12v to the solenoid won't always work. The motor spins past max engagement speed before the solenoid can throw the gear out.

When in need, haul out the booster cables, and spare battery and set it on the ground in front of the car. Remove the starter's power supply wire from the positive terminal stud. Tighten the wingnut back down on the consumer wires. Connect  the first red booster cable clamp to the main battery's positive terminal. Connect the second red booster cable clamp to the spare battery's negative terminal. Connect  the first black booster cable clamp to the starter power supply wire. Connect the second black booster cable clamp to the spare battery's positive post.  You now have 24v supplied to the starter. (it won't turn yet.) BE CAREFUL!! It's a helluva spark if you accidentally short circuit 24v.  
Next, remove the starter trigger wire from the solenoid and install your jumper wire. Turn the key on and ensure the trans is in neutral. Put coldstart knob where it likes to be. When the glowplug light goes out, move to the front of the car and touch the solenoid jumper wire's bare end to 24v. (probably the clamp on the starter's power supply wire would be easiest.)
It'll probably spark, and you'll probably jump and let it go. Grow some nuts and try again. This time, as you hold it in place, you'll be amazed at how quickly the engine turns over, and.... STARTS! (hopefully you remembered to leave it in neutral) Apply throttle by hand as neccessary to maintain idle. Release the jumper wire as soon as it's running.
Now carefully unclamp the starter power supply wire and avoid shorting it on anything.
You'll want to let it run a few minutes to warm up first, because loosening your wingnut might disrupt power to the fuel solenoid causing a stall. While it's warming up, why not set up the booster cables to give the spare battery a charge? Don't forget to remove the jumper wire and re-install the car's trigger wire.
After the engine's warmed up, put the starter power supply wire back on the positive stud. With a little practice, you'll be able to do this without stalling the engine.  Throw your junk back into the trunk and drive away happy. This method has yet to fail me on any but the most hopeless case.

Check out the diagrams below:




In case you're worried about your starter's health, don't. Extended cranking with dropping voltage is much harder on it than a short burst of higher volts. Remember, amps=heat. Higher volts= less amps. It's one of the reasons big machinery motors are 220 or 600v.


I repair, maintain and modify VW's and BMW's.
Good work done at affordable rates. Welding and fabricating, too.
Performance Diesel Injection's Super Pump: gotta have one!

Reply #1November 02, 2004, 07:18:16 am

Centurion

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Dr. D's helpful winter starting tips
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2004, 07:18:16 am »
Thank you - great idea - especially when I already have another bat in the trunk

cheers - C
90 Jetta TD - 589,000km, 90 Jetta TD 448, FrankenJetta ...looking for a Can

Reply #2November 02, 2004, 02:26:04 pm

Dr. Diesel

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Dr. D's helpful winter starting tips
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2004, 02:26:04 pm »
Well, I may stand corrected. It was explained to me like this:

For the sake of calculating, say the starter uses 100W. at 12v, this equates to 8.3 amps. If the battery voltage drops to 9.5V, a 100W starter is then drawing 10.5 amps.  

If you take a 100W starter and feed it 24v, it draws only 4.1 amps.

In any case, a few years ago,  I was in a situation where I had no choice, and made 2-4 starts a day on 24v. I'm using a different engine now, but it's the same starter motor, somewhere in the neighbourhood of 20,000-30,000km's since changing the engine.  
It should be noted that while the engine simply wouldn't start in the cold on 12v, it always fired up within 2-3 seconds with 24v. So it never saw prolonged cranking times on 24v.

I should also modify my post to state that I never worried about the health of my starter, because blah blah blah was the way I understood it working.
I repair, maintain and modify VW's and BMW's.
Good work done at affordable rates. Welding and fabricating, too.
Performance Diesel Injection's Super Pump: gotta have one!

Reply #3November 02, 2004, 03:41:42 pm

VWRacer

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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2004, 03:41:42 pm »
Bryson, never use 24v to flash the solenoid. Route 12v to it instead.

'Nuther thing...I recommend hooking up the connections in the reverse oder Dr Diesel suggests. That way all your connections down in the engine bay are secure before you finally connect to the possitive terminal of the helper battery. Far less chance of an inadvertant spark that way!  :shock:

Also, don't reach down in the engine compartment to disconnect wires with the engine running. Instead, let the engine warm up for a minute or two, then shut it down before poking your tender pink parts in close proximity to rapidly rotating metal. I did that at 4:50pm on Sunday, 31 July 1996, and lost my right hand. After a six-hour operation to reattach it I spent TWO YEARS learning to tie my shoes and zip my fly.

Take my word for it, you don't need that kind of frustration. :D
Stan
C-Sports Racer

Reply #4November 02, 2004, 04:05:04 pm

BlackTieTD

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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2004, 04:05:04 pm »
holy christ. i will never reach in there again i swear VWRacer. glad you're ok now!

Reply #5November 02, 2004, 07:07:18 pm

VWRacer

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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2004, 07:07:18 pm »
Actually, it was the 2.5hp disc grinder blade I was using to trim some welding flash off the chassis that got my hand, not the radiator fan. Nonetheless, I am understandably nervous about exposing myself to rotating engine and tool parts. Y'all be careful out there! :D
Stan
C-Sports Racer

Reply #6November 02, 2004, 10:23:41 pm

Dr. Diesel

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Dr. D's helpful winter starting tips
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2004, 10:23:41 pm »
So I guess this is a testament to the strength of the diesel starter motor.

'Kay, so for emergency use only! :P

I'm going to run all that past the dude at the starter overhaul shop and watch his jaw drop. His explanation seemed to good to be true at the time, but until now, I hadn't heard any different.
I repair, maintain and modify VW's and BMW's.
Good work done at affordable rates. Welding and fabricating, too.
Performance Diesel Injection's Super Pump: gotta have one!

Reply #7November 03, 2004, 09:33:35 am

QuickTD

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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2004, 09:33:35 am »
I'm with doctor diesel on this one. 24 volts will not damage the starter if used in moderation. We've converted numerous 6v tractors to 12v. Never touched a starter on one of them before. We just chuck the 6v generator and fit a 12v alternator and battery, works great.

 Old style wound field starter motors are usually series wound. In this configuration a DC motor is somewhat self regulating. As load is applied the field strengthens, back EMF increases, the motor slows and develops more torque. The higher voltage is applied to both the field and the armature equally, so it will not really increase the ultimate top speed of the starter nor the current draw once the starter reaches its top speed. What it will do is force enough current through it to achieve its top speed very quickly. The slow high current wind up with a cold, weak 12volt battery is far more harmful IMO.

 That said, if you have a newer style permanent magnet starter you should not apply 24v to it. The initial high peak current can demagnetize the magnets and lead to weak starter performance. 24v will also double the speed of this type of starter, with unpredictable results. If you wish to use 24v, get a older wound-field unit. They tend to perform a bit better anyway. Also be careful making connections to a 24 volt battery setup. A short at 12v makes some sparks, a short at 24v will blow the post clean off the battery, be warned...

Reply #8November 08, 2004, 03:54:45 pm

type53b_gtd

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Dr. D's helpful winter starting tips
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2004, 03:54:45 pm »
Quote from: "QuickTD"
I'm with doctor diesel on this one. 24 volts will not damage the starter if used in moderation. We've converted numerous 6v tractors to 12v. Never touched a starter on one of them before. We just chuck the 6v generator and fit a 12v alternator and battery, works great.


I can vouch for this as well.  I've got a 6V starter that turns over a 277 cubic inch in-line 4 on 12V and has been for almost 30 years.  Mind you, I've gone through two bendix drives, and now need a new ring gear, but the starter motor is on its original windings.  Mind you, they made things a bit more robust back in 1953... :)  That and when the battery gives up, I can always resort to the crank!

Drew