NOT ANOTHER EGT QUESTION!

[Rising]

Okay so working at an airport has it's perks, I just picked up a gently used westach EGT gauge and probe for $50! tested and true! About time I can start monitoring this! It will make me feel so much safer on long grades.

Anyway so my car is a Turbo block with no turbo on it right now (that's coming soon) and the thermocouple that came with the gauge is one of those exhaust pipe clamp on dealios. I'm wondering if I can just use that thermocouple for now drilled and clamped onto the downpipe right beneath the toilet bowl flange? I know that for a turbo car it's important to have the probe preturbine (in the manifold) but I don't have a turbine so will the gases cool much going through the toilet bowl flange?

And again with a n/a setup on a turbo block what would you recommend running? I've heard 1600 but that's scary. I was thinking about not going over 1200.

Extra Question: Does the turbo blocks oil squirters require the turbo oil pump? and does the turbo oil pump interefere with the n/a Oil pan? Or can they be used interchangable? anyone got a picture of the different pumps?

[Jetmugg]

The only part of that post I am qualified to respond to is that the Turbo oil pump will work just fine in the N/A pan.  You will, however, need longer oil pump bolts or studs (as you prefer) for the "Turbo" pump versus the stock N/A pump.  The only visible difference between the two pumps is that the gear housing is longer (deeper) on the Turbo model.


Steve.

[theman53]

N/A really don't have too much fuel to worry about IIRC. The turbo pump allows fueling under boost so that the air will take care of the egt. Since you aren't adding extra air in the LDA the only way for more fuel is to turn up the pump and gov. mod. It should smoke and have a racing idle by the time you get to the point of worry with an N/A.

If it is N/A the downpipe is the same as the manifold just further down stream. The manifold is critical in turbo cars as the turbo uses a lot of the heat to spin the turbo. You are always getting pre turbo results.

[Rising]

Okay yes that's what i figured, but hopefully i'll only be preturbine till october or so 

It does smoke a little now. Not like crazy. But it does smoke a bit, especially high rpm (3-4000) which doesn't make sense to me since gov should be cutting fuel by then. But whenever I'm on a grade my water temps slowly start creeping up to 210-220 area and that worries me so I back off and go slow up hills aiming for 200ish water temps. But that got me worried that maybe I'm also exceeding EGT temps and since i'll need one when i'm turbo'ed anyway I figure i'll go ahead and throw this one on! Plus I can throw a little more fuel at her and not worry about it.

And about the pump. I thought the N/A was capable of fueling the same as a turbo pump but that the LDA limits fuel off boost?

[8v-of-fury]

The turbo pump allows fueling under boost so that the air will take care of the egt. Since you aren't adding extra air in the LDA the only way for more fuel is to turn up the pump and gov. mod. It should smoke and have a racing idle by the time you get to the point of worry with an N/A.

The turbo pump actually limits off boost fueling via the LDA, it does not offer any extra or less WOT full boost fueling. You can have a NA and TD pump produce the same peak power, and both have the same idle as well. The ONLY difference I have personally seen is off-boost fuel limitation in the lid.

And about the pump. I thought the N/A was capable of fueling the same as a turbo pump but that the LDA limits fuel off boost?

It is just as capable, seeing as how they both have the same lift and duration cam plate as well as the same size plunger.. Lucas was just relaying here-say and it happened to be incorrect. 

[Gizmoman]

Okay yes that's what i figured, but hopefully i'll only be preturbine till october or so 

It does smoke a little now. Not like crazy. But it does smoke a bit, especially high rpm (3-4000) which doesn't make sense to me since gov should be cutting fuel by then. But whenever I'm on a grade my water temps slowly start creeping up to 210-220 area and that worries me so I back off and go slow up hills aiming for 200ish water temps. But that got me worried that maybe I'm also exceeding EGT temps and since i'll need one when i'm turbo'ed anyway I figure i'll go ahead and throw this one on! Plus I can throw a little more fuel at her and not worry about it.

And about the pump. I thought the N/A was capable of fueling the same as a turbo pump but that the LDA limits fuel off boost?

You are wise to worry. EGT over-temps can toast the head pretty quick IMHO. The water temp gauge is showing results that happened long ago, relatively speaking. I don't know where the thread is, but there is a temperature offset number somewhere in here for those who install the sensor somewhere other than pre-turbo. Any EGT sensor is better than no EGT sensor - great find on the sensor!

[theman53]

If the LDA limits off boost fueling and you are correct I must have been way off to say that it allows fueling on boost.

[8v-of-fury]

It doesnt allow on boost it simply limits off boost fuel. They flow the same.

[theman53]

It doesnt allow on boost it simply limits off boost fuel. They flow the same.

Did you seriously just write that? I am done with this one.

[8v-of-fury]

It doesnt allow on boost it simply limits off boost fuel. They flow the same.

Did you seriously just write that? I am done with this one.

But.. those are two different things. Take the fuel-pin out of the lid, it is now a full jam 1.6 NA pump.

[Rising]

Gizmo: That confirms my suspicion then. My water temp gauge is right in the water neck right off the head and does react very quickly to WOT but it still isn't good enough. Better than stock but not an egt gauge.

My westach only goes from 700 to 1700 though. Will I see temps above 700 when I'm just cruising? Or only when under lots of load ? What is considered " normal" egts? I know above 1200 is pushing it for max egts but what should I expect just cruising and such?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Gizmoman]

Gizmo: That confirms my suspicion then. My water temp gauge is right in the water neck right off the head and does react very quickly to WOT but it still isn't good enough. Better than stock but not an egt gauge.

My westach only goes from 700 to 1700 though. Will I see temps above 700 when I'm just cruising? Or only when under lots of load ? What is considered " normal" egts? I know above 1200 is pushing it for max egts but what should I expect just cruising and such?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

I'm no expert on the temps,especially post turbo. You'll have to search for the thread but I know I saw it awhile ago.

I found this doing a quick google: "It should be noted that when the EGT is measured after the turbine, the turbine outlet temperature at full throttle or under a heavy load typically would be 200º to 300º F. lower than the EGT measured in the exhaust manifold."

Here is a link to the whole article:http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/25-Why-EGT-is-Important

I think Theman hits 1200 regularly so if you apply the above, then you should not go over 900 to 1000 F.

Reason I am so adamant about EGT is several folks here warned me about using the water temp as an EGT sensor. While I agreed, I was too lazy to do anything about it at the time - Hot day, long climb, poof! - I've spent nearly a year and many many dollars rebuilding my engine.

As for "normal", don't have a running engine yet so I can't say. I don't think 900 F (post turbo) would be good for extended times though. That might be a good use of the water temp gauge. If the sensor you have is small diameter (1/8"), it should react pretty quick. That's the whole idea - it tells you when to take your foot out of it - The water temp will give you the long range results.

[bajacalal]

Gizmo: That confirms my suspicion then. My water temp gauge is right in the water neck right off the head and does react very quickly to WOT but it still isn't good enough. Better than stock but not an egt gauge.

The two seem to be somewhat independent although correlated. I have seen water temps creep up when the weather is hot, going uphill in heavy traffic, with low EGTs. And I have seen the EGTs spike without noticeably raising the water temperature.

My westach only goes from 700 to 1700 though. Will I see temps above 700 when I'm just cruising? Or only when under lots of load ? What is considered " normal" egts? I know above 1200 is pushing it for max egts but what should I expect just cruising and such?

I think you will probably see 700 degrees cruising with some load. It will be less than 700 at times but you don't really need to worry about EGTs being too low and 700 is in the safe range. 1700 is way too hot though, don't ever let it get that high.

I also have a post-turbine probe and have always figured on the EGTs being about 300 degrees lower than those at the head, but I've never really seriously looked into the accuracy of this statement. But I try to keep my EGT readings from exceeding 1000F, actually I back it off if they go above 800 (post turbine).

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I say install the EGT probe when you install the turbo, otherwise it's wasted effort.

I have an Auber instruments EGT and it reads 0 to 2400? F, very responsive - like instantaneous. On flat cruise I routinely see 400 to 500 F EGT. The Westach not being able to read below 700 would irk me.

[libbydiesel]

Gizmo: That confirms my suspicion then. My water temp gauge is right in the water neck right off the head and does react very quickly to WOT but it still isn't good enough. Better than stock but not an egt gauge.

My westach only goes from 700 to 1700 though. Will I see temps above 700 when I'm just cruising? Or only when under lots of load ? What is considered " normal" egts? I know above 1200 is pushing it for max egts but what should I expect just cruising and such?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

I don't care for the Westach EGT gauges with that range.  I prefer the Westach EGT gauges that read 100-1900°F.