Mk 1 TD oil cooler

[stewardc]

Dopes a Mk 1 turbodiesel have the same oil/water oil coolet as a Mk 2? What is the best aftermarket (add-on) oil cooler?

[hillfolk'r]

i think a1/a2 are the same cooler,,i recommend keeping it installed,,it helps oil come up to temp quicker,,turbos dont like boost+cold oil,,,and add aux. cooler,,,,,,,,,,,,someone else pipe up here,,ive seen a vw cooler that looks like 2 stacked together,like double thickness,,heard it works good,,keeps oil temps closer to water temp,,i think it was like 175 or so,,,,,i was a little concerned with filter clearance on the core support on an a1 diesel,,but nothing my friend Mr. BFH  couldnt fix,,,,looked cool(get it?) ok lame joke,,,,,iknow they can leak and mix a milkshake,,but ive never had it happen,,,anyone else seen this "double"cooler?

[Baxter]

Use a filter head from a MKI Golf GTI or Scirocco. they have a oil thermostat with an extra oil temperatur sender and 2 threaded outlets to run to the cooler of your choice.
The standard GTI oil cooler comes on a bracket, same as a Type 1 (Bug) cooler and is mounted in the dimple to the left of the radiator as you look from the front.

[hillfolk'r]

yea in england you guys get the good stuff,,,things like that never came tothe states,,,iwas gonna say,,ive never seen one of those,and im a vw nut whos seen alot(maybe not all),,till i noticed your location,,yea we dont get the good stuff over here,,,,,,,

[Otis2]

Mr. BrickYard,  can you confirm whether or not these Mk.1 GTI oil filter flanges will fit on an AAZ engine?

I've been thinking about adding some kind of external sandwich plate arrangement, but also keeping the factory AAZ oil/water heat exchanger in place.  Best of both worlds, maybe.

I seem to remember VWMike saying that the block design was changed after 1990, so the early GTI filter flange will not fit on >1990 engines (AAZ included).

[LeeG]

coincidently, there are some of the items under discussion on EBAY right now.  And a bunch of other diesel stuff, all the same seller: 'f.r.f.d.'

 VW EURO GTI OIL COOLER SETUP turbo diesel g60 16v   Item number: 8042918872  
According to the description:
factory oil filter flange with built in thermostat, oil lines, factory oil cooler and oil cooler mount for an A1 chassis rabbit/jetta. The flange will fit all 1.5, 1.6, 1.7, 1.8 gas and diesel engines. It will also fit all 1.8L 16v engines and 2.0L 16v engines with the aluminum block breather. If you have a plastic breather on your late 2.0L 16v the flange will not fit. The flange will not fit 2.0L aba engines, 1.8T 20v engines, tdi and 1.9td engines.

VW audi GTI HUGE OIL COOLER turbo diesel TDI VR6 1.8T   Item number: 8042921329
This is the super sized verisn of the regular diesel oil cooler / heater.

[Baxter]

They don't fit TDI's, fairly sure it will go on an AAZ though.
I have a couple of these things kicking around, you pick them up at VW shows for about £15 for the full kit.
I have one on my 1.6TD T3 with the oil cooler slung under the middle of the van.
I have a 1Y engine in the yard whick is the NA version of the AAZ thats in for dropping into the back of a T3 soon, if I get time I will offer the filter head up to it.
Simon.

[hillfolk'r]

VW audi GTI HUGE OIL COOLER turbo diesel TDI VR6 1.8T   Item number: 8042921329
This is the super sized verisn of the regular diesel oil cooler / heater.

this is what i musta seen ,,anyone usin one of these???i was thinkin of one of these,,,,

[Otis2]

Hillfolk'r, I have the monster oil/water cooler from a 2004 PD Passat on my AAZ engine.  The AAZ engine powers my Westfalia Vanagon.  

Photos of the big PD oil cooler are in this thread on TDi club:  http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=742791

I have been bitterly disappointed with its performance.  I'm still seeing 230 F oil temps at steady-state, flat highway, 70 mph.  Not really any difference to speak of between the original AAZ oil/water cooler.  I was hoping the oil temps would be tied much more closely to the water temps.

That's why I was considering adding an oil/air cooler by using the Mk 1 GTI flange.

HOWEVER... now I have read an older thread started by libbybapa:  http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2412

After drawing diagrams of the water flow circuit, Andrew says that the Jetta & Golf hoses are rigged so that:

the oil cooler is routed to the bypass hose that goes from head to waterpump. With regard to the oil cooler, this is pertinent, as when the thermostat opens, the back of it blocks off the bypass hose. On the golf/jetta the flow through the oil cooler is stopped when the thermostat is fully open.

This sounds like a CRAZY engineering mistake by VW.  

Can anyone confirm that this is the case?  This means that once the engine is running hot, and the water thermostat opens, the oil cooler ceases to function at all.  It is ridiculous to even call if an oil cooler if this is the case.

I have the same bypass hose as the Golf in this Vanagon, so if Andrew is correct, then I'm now wondering if I could just re-route some water hoses and get some actual use out of this oil cooler.  This would be much easier than adding an oil/air cooler, even if the Mk 1 GTI flange does fit an AAZ engine.

Andrew, you reading this?

[Baxter]

In Europe, the 1.6TD Vanagon (T3) has an auxilliary waterpump fitted as per the other contempory 1.6TD's.
You lot never got a 1.6TD Vanagon, so you won't have access to the pipework for them.
Quite simple to fit, try www.syncrospares.com He's a mate who breaks T3's.
You will need 2 rubber hoses, they are different to the 1.6D.
An auxilliary water pump, same os Golf, Jetta etc.
Switch for water housing on head, they are set to 104 degrees C I think.

This should help towards your hot AAZ T3.

[Otis2]

Andrew, as I said above, I did add the big PD oil/water cooler, but have not been impressed.  Car drivers at TDiclub seem to have had better results than me.

I'm not really keen on tapping the water pump housing as you suggest - I'd rather YOU were the guinea pig on that front.

From your diagrams, I understand the purpose of the mod - ie. to reverse the water flow through the oil cooler, so that it is fed by cold water from the radiator, instead of hot water from the cylinder head.  

But water flow circuits can be very complicated to make work correctly, as I have discovered by trying to fit a water-cooled intercooler to the AAZ.  You need to know the "pressure head" that the pump is rated for, and you need to accurately calculate the pressure head that your circuit creates.  Any 90 (or worse, 180) degree turns start adding head pressure fast, even without much vertical lift height in the circuit, and it's deceptively easy to cut the flow down to 0 (ie. the stall pressure of the pump).  

Thinking about this more after my abortive intercooler project, I may have added so much head pressure to the oil cooler circuit (the PD water ports are not in the same position as the AAZ cooler's water ports, requiring some new 180 degree hose turns) that my problem could be inadequate water flow through the new oil cooler.  I don't know how to test flow rate through the hoses or cooler, though.  Any ideas?

Q: Does anyone know the rated head pressure of the mechanical water pump on the I4 block?  This would have to be the starting point for anyone seriously re-engineering the coolant path.  Electric pumps don't usually get rated over 9 psi or 20 feet head.

Mr. Brickyard - how is that auxiliary electric pump connected to the circuit?  Does it force a reversed flow through the oil cooler, like Andrew has proposed in his diagram?

I still look forward to you trying that Mk 1 GTI flange on your 1Y engine.  Air cooling would be a lot easier to rig, even though not an ideal solution in a rear-engined vehicle.

[Baxter]

Heres a picture of the engine bay on mt T3 when it had a mechanical TDI in there.
The auxilliary water pump can be seen to the front righ corner dangling down (Broken clip)


Not too sure of flow pattern, have a ganders yourself and see if it makes sense.