Injection Pump bracket bolts sheared off. Advice? - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Injection Pump bracket bolts sheared off. Advice? by jack's lack on 23 May, 2011 14:29
• I spent all last week cleaning the bunny and I drove it up to SoWo in Helen Ga, which is 330 miles or so from my house. I camped at the state park and I had just pitched my tent so I fired up the car to head into town and check out the goings on and hopefully find the MKI GTG. I noticed earlier that day that the car seemed a little more shaky then usual, and this time I noticed a new rattle so I popped the hood to have a look and my timing belt cover was jumping around! I immediately killed the engine and removed the cover to investigate. I discovered that I was able to move the IP with my hand and that this was the cause of the weird timing and belt jumping. I then determined that 2 of the 3 bolts that hold the IP bracket to the block had sheared off and that just one now overstressed bolt was preventing catastrophic failure. Needless to say I have not started it since.
  
  I did not bring my timing tools or my torque wrench so I had my roommate mail the
  And I should get them tomorrow. I am hopeful that enough of the bolts will be protruding from the block that I will be able to get a hold of them. I hear easy outs are anything but easy and that they are more likely to make matters worse. I read somewhere that it is possible to gently back a broken bolt out by tapping it around using a centerpunch.
  
  If anyone knows other methods of removing broke bolts I would love to hear them. Also if anyone knows the size and pitch of the bolts in question that would be great. I'm thinking of getting ARP replacements if possible so that this NEVER happens again. Finally if anyone can shed light on how this may have happened or can share a similar experience in the hopes of preventing this issue from reoccuring I would be most grateful.
  
  Cheers,
  Ryan
• #1 by Quantum TD on 23 May, 2011 18:49
• I can only guess as to why the bolts were broken: if they were loose, or loosened, they might shear off.
  
  As for pitch and thread, we'd need to know which bolts: the metal bracket to the block, or the bolts that hold the actual pump to the bracket. They should be the same, but might not be. I think they're 6mm 1.50 pitch, but I'd have to check.
  
  As for getting out the bolts: if you recently installed them during your presumed build, then they should be easy to get out. If you never touched them and that AAZ came from Canada, then they might be rusted in there (another possible cause for them shearing off).
  
  I use easy-outs, but I work on Southern cars/motors. Less rust, and I rarely have a problem with the EZ out breaking. When using them, be sure to get a variety of sizes. Drill the bolt remains to near the edge of the threads. That makes them come out easier. Drill out the bolt shaft, hammer the EZ out in there, and use your tap T-handle wrench to back them out.  Or, if there is enough meat left, you might try vice grips or the punch trick.
  
  If they're rusted in there, I would drill them out as if for an EZ out. Drill them completeley thru. Then, fill the hole with Aero-Kroil or PB blaster. Let it soak for a day (if you can). Then try the EZ out. The longer they soak, the better the results.
• #2 by macka on 23 May, 2011 20:32
• http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00952166000P?prdNo=8&blockNo=8&blockType=G8
  
  
  If you have enough exposed stud, give them a whack with a hammer and hit them with PB blaster give them another hit, and soak the studs with Pb blaster or equivalent. Then use these little beauties to pop them out. If you have the inclination use a harbor freight electric die grinder to cut a notch (slot) in the top of the broken bolt and use a manual impact screw driver to back them out.
• #3 by theman53 on 23 May, 2011 20:59
• Bolts are M8-1.25x20mm I think
  
  If you use a socket head cap screw (some call it allen bolt) it will have more strength than the hex that was in there. If you only have hex then 10.9 is the grade you want.
• #4 by wolfsburged on 23 May, 2011 22:37
• Nice to meet you this weekend, and sorry to hear. Should have PM'd me, I could have driven you some timing tools over! Hope everything goes well and you get back on the road.
  
  SOWO bit me too but not as bad, I had the alternator stop charging on the drive home, but I was able to make it without drama.
• #5 by vanagonturbo on 23 May, 2011 23:09
• Quote from: Quantum TD on 23 May, 2011 18:49

  I can only guess as to why the bolts were broken: if they were loose, or loosened, they might shear off.
  
  As for pitch and thread, we'd need to know which bolts: the metal bracket to the block, or the bolts that hold the actual pump to the bracket. They should be the same, but might not be. I think they're 6mm 1.50 pitch, but I'd have to check.
  
  As for getting out the bolts: if you recently installed them during your presumed build, then they should be easy to get out. If you never touched them and that AAZ came from Canada, then they might be rusted in there (another possible cause for them shearing off).
  
  I use easy-outs, but I work on Southern cars/motors. Less rust, and I rarely have a problem with the EZ out breaking. When using them, be sure to get a variety of sizes. Drill the bolt remains to near the edge of the threads. That makes them come out easier. Drill out the bolt shaft, hammer the EZ out in there, and use your tap T-handle wrench to back them out.  Or, if there is enough meat left, you might try vice grips or the punch trick.
  
  If they're rusted in there, I would drill them out as if for an EZ out. Drill them completeley thru. Then, fill the hole with Aero-Kroil or PB blaster. Let it soak for a day (if you can). Then try the EZ out. The longer they soak, the better the results.
  

  
  This! Well, a couple of offerings that might be different. The bolts are 8mmX1.25mm. I like to use a reverse drill bit to take them out. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you just drilled the hole and still need to sue an extractor. GL!
• #6 by jack's lack on 26 May, 2011 15:36
• Quote from: Quantum TD on 23 May, 2011 18:49

  I can only guess as to why the bolts were broken: if they were loose, or loosened, they might shear off.
  

  
  We have a winner! The bolts were definitely loose. The threads were in pretty bad shape. It looks like I reused them, and I am kicking myself, because I never should have done so.
  
  The car is finally back in Savannah. I managed to get 2 of the 3 bolts out and replace them with socket head screws. (how'd that Meatloaf song go? '2 out of 3 ain't bad'  ) I found the hardware with 12.9 stamped on the head, which should have a tensile strength of 170ksi. The M8x1.25x25mm worked best. Some really rough math says that it should take 13 kips to make one of those bolts yield. I wish I was making that kind of torque   
  
  I can tell you that it runs better than ever. The clack is less noticeable at idle then it has ever been. This leads me to believe that that bracket was never properly secured. Kudos to VW and Giles for making a pump/engine that would keep running with the pump literally falling of of the engine block. Variable static timing = no problem 
  
  As for the repair itself, the one bolt that still had a head (top left) was pretty simple to get out, I just took it easy on it because I was afraid it would break. The second one (bottom left) I was able to get out with some PB blaster and an automatic center punch. That trick really does work well if the bolt is not seized in there or damaged too badly. The third bolt (right middle) actually broke twice! the head had sheared off and I could feel it in the hole of the bracket, so I was hopeful that I would have plenty to get a hold of, but when I took the bracket off it was just a piece of the shaft and it had quite an ugly break down in the hole. I worked at it for hours, but I did not have a drill with me or a decent torch, and I could get the bracket very secure to the block with the two new bolts so I decided to get it back home where I have access to more tools, not to mention level ground to work on. I will be going at it with a drill and bolt extractors in the near future.
  
  Aside from all that it was a nightmare repair. You know one of those where Murphy's law is in full-effect. The worst was that I dropped the clip that secures the cold start advance cable to the pump when I was trying to hook it up, and it fell down to an unreachable place wedged between the block and the coolant pump. I actually had to remove the IP, the IP bracket, the alternator and the water pump (for only a second to minimize coolant spillage) to get a hold of it. The Bentley says to hook the coldstart cable up after you have bolted the pump in place and hooked up the injector fuel-lines, which leaves no room to work. The second time around I hooked up and adjusted the cable with the pump sitting on the radiator, and then slid it into the bracket and bolted it up. That was so much easier I can't even tell you.
  
  But the kicker is that when I went to put the alternator back I noticed something jiggling around inside of it and it was making a ringing sound when I turned it by hand as though something was catching a little on one of the cooling fan blades within. Needless to say the alternator light was on or blinking most of the drive home, and now my YellowTop is spending a spell on the charger. I have the ABF setup, so it is not a cheap or easy to find alternator. I bought this one from a guy new (not remanufactured) in December of 2009, so it is just a bit out of warrantee. He was totally awesome and did cut me a deal on another one though.
  
  I guess while I have it all apart to get the final bolt, I will for the sake of caution put a new timing belt and tensioner on. I am debating grabbing some of those ARP M8 Accessory studs to really make it bullet proof, but that may be overkill.
  
  Thanks for the help everyone. I have some photos I will get up later, because my camera battery is charging at the moment.
• #7 by theman53 on 26 May, 2011 17:50
• Thought so on the m8-1.25x25
  You can weld a nut onto the stub that is left so that you can turn it out. The heat from the welder will help it come too. Great job on finding the problem and fixing. My bolts under the pump loosened on me and I had some variable timing going. I think that is why the egt would change on a whim some days.
• #8 by macka on 27 May, 2011 08:15
• go with the ARP studs, there is no such thing as overkill for securing timing sensitive stuff.