My very first no run thread! Hooray!! (Edit: My first engine build! Hooray!!!)

[Jettagli16v]

Update:
The head will be back form the head shop monday.
(4X exhaust valve guides, and 8X Valve stem seals)

Is there an easy way to remove the timing belt cover on the motor side?
I have most of the hardware off of it, but the cover is still retained by hardware that seems to go thru the injection pump?
If that does not come off, Ill have to remove the T-belt tensioner stud to get the head on with the new head studs.
Suggestions?

-Brad

[jtanguay]

you don't need to have the head studs installed to put the head on.  just take an old head bolt (and cut a slot in it to remove it) and cut it so it only sticks out a little bit so the head gasket stays aligned.  install the head studs and remove the old head bolts and install those studs, then torque  

removing that metal piece can be quite a PITA, and should be avoided whenever possible.

did you get the cylinders checked with the caliper gauge? or buy new rings?  don't forget the possibility of running oversized rings to keep you going a bit longer.

[Rabbit TD]

That is the flat rate for "custom head work"
which includes:
complete disassembly, cleaning of,  and magnafluxing the head,
Inspection of each part per specs,
reassembly with any new parts needed,
and lapping the valves.
They will ensure the head is totally flat as well.
They guarantee the whole head for like 6 months.

I totally agree with the head gasket theory now.
(unless I pull out the slugs and all rings are gone, but then I would have a decrease in performance...)
Good reason to do the MLS and ARP treatment. I really really want to gain entry into the "30+PSI" club...

a question:

I'm thinking I should replace the oil pump as the motor is old, and I have a nice freshened motor to take care of now.
Is there a good upgrade part here? ARP sells bolts for that too, are the stock ones a concern?

Thanks!
-Brad

You really should try to get that bore measured to see if you can use an oversize ring first.  The first size piston for a re-bore is .020 or .5 m/m larger from all the suppliers I've seen.  I don't know if there is anything lower than that available and you're surely not worn to that step yet.  I know for more popular engines you can get bearings 1 or 2 thousandths or so undersize but I think rings go no less than .010 in oversize.  Someone else may know the answer but either way it needs measured if you go other than the stock size ring.  Good luck getting into the 30 psi. club, I'd b happy if I could just get into the 10 one right now and everything I have is new or rebuilt including the turbo itself and 500 psi. compression. :cry:

[Jettagli16v]

Thanks guys!

I am replacing the ring set,
because of possible cylinder wear,  (no mic available, im just running with it anyway!)
and the broken rings on #1&3.
Rod bearings and bolts are a consequence of piston removal.

I am also working on the theory that something catastrophic happened to prevent the car from running.
It would have never driven on those compression numbers, and the car ran very well before it stopped. It also ran well, because I was pushing 19PSI thru what appears to be a very tired stock original (?) head gasket.
I can only figure this is a headgasket failure, no obvious signs of other damage.
That is why I am not worried about the cylinders.
It may bite me, but this is (already) what the budget allows.
money goes quick here (inside the motor).

There are a few things I am not doing that I should:
1) rebore and upsize pistons
2) IM shaft bearings and seals
3) main bearings (im not even pulling the crank!)

This is a driveway job to hold the bottom end together for a year or 2.
Then Ill build a block, but Ill build it to a higher level.
My head is like new,
my ARPs will come with me to the next block.

I also need a giles super pump, and turbo upgrade, but......
one thing at a time!

-Brad

[theman53]

If you can I think the IM shaft seal is about 7.00 roughly and very easy to do if you have the pulley off, I would, but that is just me. If you haven't done the crank bolt either then I would do that and put the same seal in there and then you won't have to worry about leaks there. If you are rebuilding in a short bit then save the seals for then I guess.

[jtanguay]

for Florida temps, you should be just fine with a re-ring.  with the lower compression numbers, you should be able to run higher boost, but you'll have increased blowby.

the int shaft bearings are a very good idea, but they should be okay for the next 2 years.

[Rabbit TD]

The wear limit for piston to cylinder clearance is .003".  I would be very surprised (unless that picture of the ridge at the top of the cylinder is very deceptive) that he has far surpassed that.  If he is out of that spec then overbore and new pistons are the solution.

Just out of curiosity is there an oversize ring available other than the .020 which is the 1'st rebore size that I see everywhere.  I've heard of people in the past on other engine types to take a .010 oversize ring and file the end gaps to the right spec and use them but I don't know if  there even is such a thing for these engines.  If it was mine I'd just rebore it anyway as far as that goes and have the new pistons on top of it with the right clearances everywhere including the ring lands.  They might not be worn but by the time they are cleaned out they can be really off spec.  I've even seen people use hacksaw blades in them and then worry about  small scratch somewhere else :lol:

[Jettagli16v]

Wait, new hangup on re-assembly:
Con rod bolts & nuts are listed as a stretch bolt,
but not available from any of my wholesalers..
Any ideas?
Just go ARP, or re use??

Thanks,
Brad

[jtanguay]

Wait, new hangup on re-assembly:
Con rod bolts & nuts are listed as a stretch bolt,
but not available from any of my wholesalers..
Any ideas?
Just go ARP, or re use??

Thanks,
Brad

go ARP if you intend on rebuilding in the future.  buying the stretch bolts about 3-4 times will probably equal the cost of the ARP's.  do NOT re-use the stretch bolts unless you want a rod to punch a hole through your block!!!

[Jettagli16v]

Well, good point.
I do not, in fact, want to have a nice inspection hole to watch the crank spin, so I will opt for the new bolts.

I can find originals on line at like $60-70,
so Ill be buying the ARP rod bolts ($100) and oil pan bolts too ($20), just for kicks.

I am having a bit of a hard time cleaning out the ring groove
(lots of carbon and oil in there)
any insight beyond a broken ring and some brake parts cleaner?

Bummer about the bolts,
another week delayed BEFORE I can order the HG....

On a better note, though, Giles just got done with my injectors yesterday, and they should be back in a week.

Thanks guys!
-Brad

[Jettagli16v]

dammit, this sucks.
Totally dead in the water.

My work's STUPID BUSY season kicked off the last 2 weeks,
so my hours go from like 45-55 and I am always spent when I get home.... (retail swimming pool store)
I havent even ordered my conrod bolts yet!
(ill do that as soon as i leave here)

Im going to scoop up the oil pump bolts as well.

Then hopefully next week I can do the bottom end assembly.

Any advice on a "Ridge reamer"?

-Brad

[jtanguay]

you could try a propane torch to burn out the deposits in the ring lands.  only a few seconds though as to not overheat the area.  i'd go heat then penetrating fluid and then heat (keep cycling it)  

but someone might have a better idea.

[Jettagli16v]

Thanks, JT!

One more question:
Based on Myke_W's advice, I am going to re-assemble without replacing rod bolts.
Any other folks back me up on this move?
I am worried, because I think if I thought I should replace them, and do not, that they will fail (and take out the block)...

But if you guys say you have done it in the past with good results, Ill ride with it.

Also, Injectors showed up today from Giles!
Hooray!!!!!

Thanks!
-Brad

[jtanguay]

Thanks, JT!

One more question:
Based on Myke_W's advice, I am going to re-assemble without replacing rod bolts.
Any other folks back me up on this move?
I am worried, because I think if I thought I should replace them, and do not, that they will fail (and take out the block)...

But if you guys say you have done it in the past with good results, Ill ride with it.

Also, Injectors showed up today from Giles!
Hooray!!!!!

Thanks!
-Brad

after reading about someones nice 1.9 block being ruined by a rod going through it, i wouldn't take the chance, but to each their own.  the rod bolts are pretty damn expensive though, and i'm kinda kicking myself for not going with ARP.  the peace of mind of knowing i can remove them anytime for whatever reason and as many times as i want... well is empowering  :lol:

VW says to replace the bolts so I did it.  but they also say to replace all kinds of other bolts that don't really need to be, such as the camshaft bolt.

if you do decide to re-use them, just make sure you follow the right torque and 1/4 turn.

[Jettagli16v]

Now I am even more nervous.

My issue is that stock bolts will be over $100 from the dealership,
and not available from local parts suppliers.
ARPs are $110,
but I cant find anyone with them in stock!
(or at least anyone I feel comfortable giving my CC# to!!)

I am going to assemble the bottom end with new piston rings and rod bearings tomorrow and Fri,
to check piston protrusion
(i dont even have my Taiwan (ala 53 Willys) gasket on the way yet!)
After measuring, and ordering the HG,
Ill have a week to kill.

Any suggestions for finding the ARPs?

-Brad