Need advice on my home built commuter. 1.6TD or MC power

[914turboford]

I am building a small, single seater commuter vehicle. It is currently intended to be a reverse trike, 2 wheels front 1 rear. I have the cockpit roll cage pretty much done and the front 914 suspension mostly mounted. I have a 1982 Honda V45 Magna 750cc which I plan to use for the drivetrain. The bike is rated at 82hp and gets about 50 mpg highway. I am hoping for 45 mpg pushing my heavier (approximately 1000lb. with driver), less aerodynamic trike. At some point I would plan to upgrade to a newer, fuel injected bike drivetrain. Tomorrow I am getting an NA Caddie with an extra 1.6TD or maybe even two. So I am wondering about switching this to a 4 wheeled vehicle with a transverse 5 spd and the 1.6TD. I would plan to add an intercooler and a less restrictive exhaust/intake. My question is would I be able to exceed the performance/fuel economy of the MC engine? Can you get a factory 1.6TD to put out 90-100hp without taking the head off? If you do get to that power level can you still get 45mpg in a Rabbit or Jetta? I will only consider 2 options for this vehicle, diesel or 3 wheel. I do not want to deal with emissions testing. In CA diesels are exempt from emissions testing and so are motorcycles, which is what the three wheeler is considered to be.

[KTZed]

IMO it depends on what your priorities are for this vehicle. The diesel engine/trans along with a 4th wheel/suspension will add a good couple hundred lbs compared to the bike engine. On the other hand, if the bike engine only gets 50mpg pushing a lighter vehicle with less drivetrain loss, it will not do as well in your trike. Also keep in mind that the bike enigne will have FAR less torque than the diesel and the clutch will not like pushing the heavier vehicle. I bet the diesel can do at least 50mpg in a small vehicle (how heavy are we talking...under 2000lbs anyways id imagine?) even making 100hp, which it can do reliably with no internal mods, and dont forget the torque!
Id prefer the extra stability and room youd get with 4 wheels as well.
Thats what id do anyways...I mean...it is a vw diesel forum.
Sounds like a fun project

[lyeinyoureye]

I think you may get significantly less than 45mpg on an unfaired three-wheeler if the Magna. W/o fairings you are gonna be hard pressed to get what I would consider decent mileage w/ that setup even if you go w/ a diesel. I don't see why a faired 1000-1300lb four wheeler couldn't get ~80-100mpg@55mph, but w/o the fairing highway fuel consumption will increase significantly.

That being said, I'm unsure about how the CA process for custom built four wheelers works. This seems to imply that everything except for the first 500 applicants will get stuck w/ the current model year emissions standards.

Per California Vehicle Code §4750.1, the first 500 program applicants in each calendar year may choose whether the inspection is based on the model-year of the engine used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year. If the engine or the vehicle does not sufficiently resemble one previously manufactured, the referee will assign 1960 as the model-year.

After the first 500 vehicles have been registered in any calendar year, all others will be assigned the same model-year as the calendar year in which the application is submitted.

[Black Smokin' Diesel]

You'll most likely get better power and mileage with the TD engine than the bike one. The TD has much more torque than a bike engine so it needs less fuel to haul around a light trike.

The TD engine isn't that big when you remove everything around it. It is quite heavy though. Whatever you do, we want pics :lol:

[914turboford]

That being said, I'm unsure about how the CA process for custom built four wheelers works. This seems to imply that everything except for the first 500 applicants will get stuck w/ the current model year emissions standards.

Per California Vehicle Code §4750.1, the first 500 program applicants in each calendar year may choose whether the inspection is based on the model-year of the engine used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year. If the engine or the vehicle does not sufficiently resemble one previously manufactured, the referee will assign 1960 as the model-year.

After the first 500 vehicles have been registered in any calendar year, all others will be assigned the same model-year as the calendar year in which the application is submitted.

I am aware of SB100. However, all diesels are exempt from emissions testing. If I build a diesel vehicle it will be smog exempt, unless the state changes the law before I get it on the road. I have heard talk about the state starting to smog diesels for 12 years and it has not come to pass. Having said that, other states, including Nevada, do have emissions testing for diesel, so it is possible.

[TedV]

I looked into getting a Campagna T-Rex with the 1200 ZZR motor. Owner said he altered the gearing a bit and when commuting he could get 40mpg if he drove the torque and kept his foot out of it.  Problem is, it's so fun to rev, can't keep your foot off the gas.  Then it got around 20.  I didn't get it, the bank and I couldn't come to terms.

For the 4wheeler, have you seen grabercars.com or checked out the locost Lotus super 7 clone forums? A locost can weigh 1200 lbs give or take depending on engine choice.  Friends here in Knoxville have built them.  Last one the DMV taged as a 60something lotus cause that's what it looks like.  My bet is the diesel will get better mileage since it originaly got 45 in a 2100 lbs car.

You could solve it scientific.  build one of each  :wink:  :lol:

[lyeinyoureye]

If I build a diesel vehicle it will be smog exempt, unless the state changes the law before I get it on the road.

Sure it will. But according to what I'm reading it will also have to satisfy the current model year emissions regulations, which I think any diesel will be hard pressed to satisfy. I know that for any vehicle built w/ a diesel, gas->diesel w/ an approved diesel is no sweat, but I don't think the same flies for vehicles where the diesel wasn't CARB approved. I should call since I'm interested in doing something similar, but based on how I reread it smog exemption does not result CARB approval for a given MY. I would love for it to, and initially thought it did, but upon rereading it I have my doubts.

After the first 500 vehicles have been registered in any calendar year, all others will be assigned the same model-year as the calendar year in which the application is submitted.

I have heard talk about the state starting to smog diesels for 12 years and it has not come to pass. Having said that, other states, including Nevada, do have emissions testing for diesel, so it is possible.

Yeah... They can't pull stuff like that for private vehicles AFAIK since it would open up a whole can of worms legally. Public domain vehicles otoh, they are instituting inspections/testing for, and the semi drivers are whining like a buncha toddlers.

[Vanagoner]

You mentioned concern about getting 100 hp out of the diesel to drive your lightweight car.  I wouldn't worry so much.  My n/a westy is shaped like a tuff shed, weighs two and a half tons, and came with a stock horsepower rating of 48.  Worn out and at altitude my engine competes with lawn tractors for HP ratings.  The N/A will get your project around fine.  
It might be easier/ more fun if you wanted to turn your caddy into a uber-aero ride.  The pickup shape has a lot of potential.  I am no fan of cutting up good rustfree cars, but you could always chop the back, add one wheel instead of two, and make one heck of a streamliner.  Easy to register, too.

[914turboford]

Here is a picture of what I have so far. I cut the cockpit out of a circe track frame I got for free. Then I made it symmetrical and semi-mounted the 914 front suspension. The donor bike is in the background. YOu could be right about not being able to register it as a 2008 SPCN with an engine that meets 1985 emissions standards. I'll have to look into that more.
Brian

[914turboford]

I brought the engine home today. See picture. It appears to have been rebuilt. I looked under the valve cover and found that it has head studs, which is nice, but one of them is missing, which is not nice. Even worse, the one missing is right in the middle.  The engine appears to be newly assembled and never fired. I'll check to see if the nuts have been torqued. If they have been already torqued, do you think I could get away with putting a bolt in that center hole and torquing it to spec? Or should I relieve the torque on all of them and retorque? Or, do you think I need to put a new HG in there?



And here are a couple more pictures of the cockpit.

[lyeinyoureye]

Post back if it's permissible or not! I know of diesel swaps into MY06 pickups, but those were foreign engines that had never been in the US before, so... Who knows. If it was as easy as my gas->diesel swap, then you could put a 7.3L and the state ref won't have a problem w/ it. That being said, depending on what your commute is like, an unfaired trike or even four wheeler probably won't get any better highway mileage than a Civic sedan with a trans swap, and almost certainly won't get better highway mileage than a car modded for better aero. It'll have a distinct advantage in city at half the weight, but that's assuming you drive like everyone else. If ya stay of the brakes and time lights I'm sure the differences are slight.

So... What kind of commute will this thing see? Nice work so far btw.