Author Topic: Water Injection (Read 33619 times)

BellCityDubber · « **Reply #30 on:** July 10, 2006, 09:22:25 am »

Well...

this weekend I took a trip to the wreckers and found some items for my water/alcohol injection setup... I have a new intake tube that I can mangle up..... I got another washer fluid bottle & pump, and I've yet to find an apporpriate nozzle... and I'm thinking a switch too... but we'll see..

Benjamin · « **Reply #31 on:** July 10, 2006, 09:23:21 am »

@greggearhead: how do i know i put to much water in the cilinders???
how do i know i use a to big nozzle?

Greetz, Benjamin

greggearhead · « **Reply #32 on:** July 10, 2006, 02:31:20 pm »

I can't tell you how much fluid to use with a different design nozzle, only the nozzles we have experience with.

For our nozzles, on an IDI TD with about 125-150hp, I would use a 175 or 225ml/min nozzle. More or less for specific application issues (larger for no intercooler, smaller for a very efficient turbo and large intercooler, etc).

With other nozzles, you may have to go larger to try and get as much temp reduction, but it may not tolerate as much fluid. Difficult to say.

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #33 on:** July 10, 2006, 04:26:21 pm »

i dont know flow rates and all that stuff,but when i compared the amount of water sprayed in a cup between my 2 different nozzles
ihit the button for 10 seconds for each test
each time,
i had about enough water to fill a "standard spray paint top/cap" like about 1/3 of the way up i wanna say
i should have measured it in a measured cup for you guys
but ijust wanted to compare flow rates on each of my jet setups
i found out my restriction is the 1/8 inch copper guageline that im using
you could probablyalmost use that,if it sprayed nice
my single jet would shoot 5-7 feet (2-2.5 meters roughly) or so

BellCityDubber · « **Reply #34 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:30:02 pm »

....

okay, so at our weekly vw meet a few guys and I were tossing around ideas...

someone said a high pressure pump would work better and try to find the best atomization as possible.... so we've come up with the following...

1. Would a CIS injection pump work well for high pressure, seeing as it's ~80psi? and if so, would it or would it not work due to the fact that it may not work well with water as it wasnt designed for moving water.

2. Would a NOS fogger from an old NOS kit work? I wouldnt see why not...

Benjamin · « **Reply #35 on:** July 18, 2006, 12:29:52 am »

Quote

1. Would a CIS injection pump work well for high pressure, seeing as it's ~80psi? and if so, would it or would it not work due to the fact that it may not work well with water as it wasnt designed for moving water.

i dont know what means CIS, problebly its becouse i just can talk basic english :? i think a 80psi pump is not enough, you have to become a fine mist, i would say you need to have something like 150psi, i realy suggest to get one above 100psi!

When using a waterpump, i dont know (its just an idea) can it beat methanol?

Quote

2. Would a NOS fogger from an old NOS kit work? I wouldnt see why not...

as far as i know, the injector will give you a angle, an a quantity, you may not put to much water in the engine! but a flow test on this NOSfogger would be easy :wink: i try to take some pics when my system is working for the angle. i think as long you have a angle its good, as long you get a fine mist its good.

Greetz, Benjamin

BellCityDubber · « **Reply #36 on:** July 18, 2006, 03:10:08 pm »

Quote from: "Benjamin"

i think a 80psi pump is not enough, you have to become a fine mist, i would say you need to have something like 150psi, i realy suggest to get one above 100psi!

When using a waterpump, i dont know (its just an idea) can it beat methanol?

as the post above states what a CIS pump is.... it's not a waterpump. and if hillfolk'r is using a windscreen washer pump, I'm sure that a CIS pump would deliver much more pressure.

Benjamin · « **Reply #37 on:** July 19, 2006, 01:24:21 am »

Quote from: BellCityDubber

Quote from: Benjamin
i think a 80psi pump is not enough, you have to become a fine mist, i would say you need to have something like 150psi, i realy suggest to get one above 100psi!

When using a waterpump, i dont know (its just an idea) can it beat methanol?

as the post above states what a CIS pump is.... it's not a waterpump. and if hillfolk'r is using a windscreen washer pump, I'm sure that a CIS pump would deliver much more pressure.

Most gasser pumps dont live long when they have to transport water. A friend of my did it. Anyway, you can give it a try!

My old 1.6Fiat had an 15psi pump, my brother his FiatTurbo gasser got a 45psi pump. i think a vw will be +- the same.

Greetz, Benjamin

greggearhead · « **Reply #38 on:** July 19, 2006, 07:56:29 am »

The CIS is a good high-pressure pump, but its internals won't last long with water, and won't last at all with methanol.

BellCityDubber · « **Reply #39 on:** July 19, 2006, 02:57:09 pm »

Quote from: "greggearhead"

The CIS is a good high-pressure pump, but its internals won't last long with water, and won't last at all with methanol.

Yeah, the CIS fuel pumps are 80 psi, but if they wont last long with water I guess I'm a little bit F'd up that alley.. maybe I'll have to use something along the lines of what hillfolk'r's got

Benjamin · « **Reply #40 on:** July 19, 2006, 03:04:07 pm »

Quote from: BellCityDubber

Quote from: greggearhead
The CIS is a good high-pressure pump, but its internals won't last long with water, and won't last at all with methanol.

Yeah, the CIS fuel pumps are 80 psi, but if they wont last long with water I guess I'm a little bit F'd up that alley.. maybe I'll have to use something along the lines of what hillfolk'r's got

OFFTOPIC :oops: does anyone know how much cc/min it can flow?

Greetz, Benjamin

BellCityDubber · « **Reply #41 on:** July 19, 2006, 06:18:25 pm »

Quote from: "Benjamin"

OFFTOPIC :oops: does anyone know how much cc/min it can flow?

Greetz, Benjamin

I found a great page here

http://www.auto-solve.com/mech_inj.htm#MFI03

that indicateded the following

The pump is capable of producing a pressure of 8 bar (120 psi) with a delivery rate of approximately 4 to 5 litres per minute.
Within the pump is a pressure relief valve that lifts off its seat at 8 bar to arrest the pressure should the filter, fuel lines or other eventualities cause it to become obstructed. The other end of the pump (output) is home to a non-return valve that, when the voltage to the pump is removed, closes the return and maintains pressure within the system, as illustrated in figure 6.1.

The normal operating pressure within this system is approximately 5 bar (75 psi) and at this pressure the current draw on the pump is 5 to 8 amps.

totally off topic, but a really good pump for water injection IF it would hold up to the differences between gasoline and water/alcohol/methanol... etc.

and aint that a *** because the cis pumps are a dime a dozen around these parts

greggearhead · « **Reply #42 on:** July 20, 2006, 03:19:35 pm »

We sell our pumps seperately - we have 150psi pumps and 220psi pumps, fyi. They last with straight water or 50/50 water-methanol.

BellCityDubber · « **Reply #43 on:** July 21, 2006, 08:52:55 pm »

Quote from: "greggearhead"

We sell our pumps seperately - we have 150psi pumps and 220psi pumps, fyi. They last with straight water or 50/50 water-methanol.

although it would be nice to have such equipment, I do not have the adequate funds for such a device.... a CIS pump would be cheap.. like.. 10 bucks cheap, same with alot of other pumps.....

as I stated on much earlier in the thread, I'm trying to do this as low cost as possible, because I'm basically a starving student

Benjamin · « **Reply #44 on:** August 04, 2006, 04:11:26 am »

those pics i ever promised :oops: , this is the angle (of my 300cc injector)

@BellCityDubber: did you tried something out with a CIS pump?

Greetz, Benjamin