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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: patracy on July 31, 2007, 06:46:25 pm
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I've got a 1.6 that I'm trying to rebuild for my project. However it appears that water was in the engine for a while, enough to rust the cyls. pretty good. I've had them soaking in oil for the past two days. But I don't think I'll get it good enough to be able to turn by hand again. (Lots of scales from rust)
Looking from the bottom of the engine, what bits of the cyl walls I can see don't appear to be rusted. So my question is, can I drop the crank out and drive the pistons down and out the bottom of the block?
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The rods and pistons have to come out from the top of the motor. They can't come out the bottom.
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can't the pistons come out the bottom with crank removed? the only thing i can see getting in the way would be the piston oil squirters... and those are only a turn of a wrench away from removing...
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I'm lookin at my engine pics and I just can't quite see it. It just might be possible, although I've always got em out from the top of the motor.
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can't the pistons come out the bottom with crank removed? the only thing i can see getting in the way would be the piston oil squirters... and those are only a turn of a wrench away from removing...
Older 1.6. No squirters.
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Best of my recolection, it has nothing to do with the oil nozzles. The main bearing bosses are in the way. the pistons have to go out the top.
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Best of my recolection, it has nothing to do with the oil nozzles. The main bearing bosses are in the way. the pistons have to go out the top.
The main bearing bosses were what I was worried about. I thought perhaps they might drop out since the piston skirts have releafs in them for clearance. I guess I'll let it soak for another day or two. Drop the crank, try to knock the pistons down in the holes a little more, then hone out the rust to have a "clear" path to go out the top.
...hopefully.
I'm betting I'll have to have the block bored and replace the pistons. I see autozone has a kit for it. Is there anywhere that has a better price?
(I hoped the engine only had some light rust causing it to freeze. I hoped to get by with just a re-ring)
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What oil are you using? I usually use vast amounts of liquid wrench when I unstick my project motorcycle engines...
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Liquid wrench, an entire can among all cyl.
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Give that stuff some time. I usually let it sit for a week or so. Once it is all seeped through, use a propane torch and heat up the top of the piston, especially the area where the rings are contacting the cylinder wall. Then use a wood dowel and tap the pistons out from the bottom....
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Best of my recolection, it has nothing to do with the oil nozzles. The main bearing bosses are in the way. the pistons have to go out the top.
Yep, it's physically impossible to remove the pistons from the bottom of the block.
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PB blaster is alot better. imho
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PB blaster is also good stuff. You have to break the seal the rings made with the cylinder wall..it can be done.
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I should have taken pics before I started to soak them. They're bad enough where it felt like sandpaper from the scales.
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Perhaps you can (eventually) push the pistons way down and then get into each cylinder with a deglazing hone and hone away enough of the rust so that the piston can come out the top.. you're probably looking at re-boring anyway ??
In fact, if you're re-boring anyway you're into it for new pistons... whack...detonation due to a hammer !!
Vince
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Perhaps you can (eventually) push the pistons way down and then get into each cylinder with a deglazing hone and hone away enough of the rust so that the piston can come out the top.. you're probably looking at re-boring anyway ??
In fact, if you're re-boring anyway you're into it for new pistons... whack !!
Vince
Yep unfortunately I'm afraid it's beyond a simple re-ring. :(
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I have heard that brake fluid can be helpful to free up frozen pistons. Might as well try every thing at your disposal to free them up before taking them apart with a chisel. Cheers Dan
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Well I made a little progress tonight. But I'm not liking what I found.
Here's what the worst cyl looked like sunday before I started to soak it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03949.jpg)
Look mom, no pistons!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03950.jpg)
Shots of the bores. They're not as bad as I thought. They'll need to be bored though I think.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03951.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03953.jpg)
Now for the bad part...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03955.jpg)
Number 3 piston has been melted away at the crown.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03957.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03960.jpg)
So tomorrow I'll be taking the block to the machine shop to see what they can do.
Oh and here's what It'll end up in.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03947.jpg)
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What do you think caused the piston damage? IP or injector?
Also I'm wondering about what I should do at this point. I know another TD will set me back $700 or so. Plus $300 for a re-ring/bearing kit.
Should I just try to grab the turbo setup off ebay I'm bidding on. Rebuild this engine. And add a few things?
I'm thinking about a turbo setup, intercooler, having the IP tuned, and a small propane setup for WOT. (the propane would be later down the road)
I know the TD's had the oil squirters. This one doesn't. So I was thinking about using a larger radiator, the intercooler, and adding a oil cooler as well.
Does anyone make a larger cap. oil pan? Clearance isn't an issue for my setup.
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That looks like severe overheating to me. The aluminium is melted at the top of the ring lands meaning the heat had to come from the combustion chamber with no cooling available to take it away. I would get the block magnafluxed before boring to make sure there are no serious cracks which would turn the block to junk. And clean the snot out of it to do a thorough visual inspection. It may be possible to redistrip the block to get rid of the rust and crud. This could save you the heartache of spending money on a damaged block. Cheers Dan
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Took the block to the machine shop. He said it'll need .040 So now I've got to find an engine kit. The local parts stores don't have anything.
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Jack at www.vwdieselparts.com has a very nice assortment of kits.
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Well I had a chance to speak briefly with Jack. I've got a few more questions.
1. Should I replace the oil pump? I know his kit comes with one. But the other kits I've found do not? The car had 140K on it.
2. Cam and IP lock. They look simple. I could use an angle iron for the cam. The IP lock looks like nothing more than a pin I could turn on the lathe.
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The cheapy timing tools on the market are pretty much as you have described. I Just got a set off the net for about $ 79 from emiata.com. Though the pin and plate you can make yourself the dial indicator and adaptor are worth the money as they are difficult to produce with any degree of accuracy. And you can't do the timing with out them, just the pin and plate are not enough. Cheers Dan
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The cheapy timing tools on the market are pretty much as you have described. I Just got a set off the net for about $ 79 from emiata.com. Though the pin and plate you can make yourself the dial indicator and adaptor are worth the money as they are difficult to produce with any degree of accuracy. And you can't do the timing with out them, just the pin and plate are not enough. Cheers Dan
I've got a dial indicator already and I'm certain I can lock it in place with my mount.
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For giggles I decided to tear apart the oil pump to see what it looked like. I threw it in the parts washer to clean the gunk off from it sitting so long. It washed off easily. I broke it down, doesn't appear to be much wear at all. I cleaned off all the parts and reassembled it. Little play at all. Even the pickup screen was for clean and only had residue on it. No trash or silicone. Much like the bottom end of the engine. I also checked the valve, it moved and closed like it should with tension. I used a allens wrench to reach inside and try to press it back.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03961.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03963.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03964.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03965.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03967.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03968.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/DSC03969.jpg)
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The factory spec for wear limit on these pumps is in the Bentley...I recall it being 6 thou or something (you use a feeler gauge to measure the backlash)... lemme know if you don't have one and I'll look it up for you. There's also a spec for wear on the ends of the gears... again using a feeler gauge and a straightedge.
Myself I use any excuse possible to upgrade to the 36mm pump.
Vince
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If you wouldn't mind, the specs would be great to measure it.
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Don't bother with it now. I've just ordered my kit with a new oil pump as well. :D Now to wait a week or longer. :cry:
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I haven't updated this thread in a while. So here goes.
Got my block back from the machine shop. Got it all cleaned up, and bored 1mm over. She's pushing 1630cc's or 99ci now :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_043.jpg)
The big D!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_044.jpg)
I spent the day putting the short block back together. Might work on it a little more tomorrow if I get a chance.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_045.jpg)
I coated the block in yellow. Mainly because I've got an idea for "conversation" reasons. I imagine when people here me pull up in a samurai that's "knocking". They'll ask. I plan on getting one of the "CAT" tags a lot of construction trucks have. That way I'll have an "explanation" of what engine it has. ;)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_046.jpg)
I've already got my adapter kit for the engine. Already got a new clutch on the way. And I've got a rebuild kit for a turbo. Hopefully my turbo setup will be here shortly. I've also got a oil cooler and dual remote oil filter setup coming in as well. I'm looking around right now for an intercooler setup. Lots more to go. But at least I'm making progress.
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Just an update. I've been going through all sorts of hassles with the top end of the engine. I thought I had a nice low mileage head ready to go. Boy was I wrong. It turned out to be a 1.5 head. I jumped the gun and machined an adapter for the oil return and drilled the head out to take 12mm bolts instead of the 11mm. I got all of that buttoned up and installed. Then I pulled the cam. Awhhh geeze, wiped cam mains! So I wasted a set of head bolts and head gasket. Had to order a new set ($80).
Luckily I found someone locally that was parting out a bunch of turbo parts. I picked up a rebuilt turbo head, rebuilt injector pump, and nice turbocharger for $400! That's not the only problem. I've been waiting on the rest of the parts I need (A turbo included!) from a seller in Canada since Aug. It's been one reason or another as to why it's not here. I did get the manifolds. But that's not even half of what I bought. ARRRRRGHHHH! I'm told the last package will be back to him Monday. Hopefully it'll be back out my way this week. But 3 months is ridiculous on getting something to someone. Anyhow, I did manage to put most of my top end together.
I've installed the head and timing belt. I've still got to dial in the timing but the base timing is set.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_095.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_098.jpg)
I mocked up the manifold and turbo for the heck of it. MMMM Turbo...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_097.jpg)
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And a new toy came in for it...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_099.jpg)
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Made a little more advancement today. I got the engine down off the stand and started working on the adapter plate. Here it is drilled in place and getting started on the flywheel.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_121.jpg)
New clutch disc as well
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_122.jpg)
All buttoned up and ready
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_124.jpg)
I also cleaned up and painted my TD oil pan today and installed it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_123.jpg)
And the VC
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/patracy/sami/IMAGE_125.jpg)
Tomorrow the plan is to get the trans cleaned up and mounted in place.