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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Trimster on July 31, 2007, 01:48:06 pm
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I can't seem to get the overheating under control. Here's the rundown...
-new thermostat 190 degree
- fresh antifreeze
- new overflow cap
The engine:
- uses about a cup of water/day
- sizzles and steams a bit by the over flow tank cap
- blows a puff of white smoke when started in the morning (running BD 100%)
Pull a hill, run the freeway with the AC on and the needle climbs to the red. Ideas? what do I need to do to trouble shoot this?
TIA
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What is your timing set at? Also, how old are your injectors?
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I don't know the age of the injectors. I'll bet they have 50K + on them. Not sure about timing however it runs great and was tuned just prior to me purchasing it. the owners Dad has one of the best bug/VW shops in the area. Old school and great work. So I sorta trust that but can't rule it out.
bob
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Your injectors are probably due for a rebiuld, and you should definitly get the timing verified.
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I experienced disappearing coolant and sizzling/pressure/etc. It was the radiator, she was plugged.
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Rad. is new in the past year or so. Could be plugged I guess. Temp gauge comes up normal, sets at half gauge most of the time. Fire up the AC while freeway driving and it heads to the red. AC off and doing a long hill, it will slowly climb to just below the red.
So this morning I fired it up cold.
- Coolant squirts in pulses from the return tube into the overflow bottle, immediately. It gets luke warm quickly.
- Engine still cold and running, cap on for 2 min or less, then remove cap and it's already under pressure. The fluid is only slightly warm. Shut the engine off and it sizzles at the cap.
Crack in head or head gasket maybe?
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Any bubbles in the coolant when it's running?
Does your rad fan come on when you turn the AC on?
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no bubbles from the lower overflow tank hose. The upper squirts in pulses.
Fan comes on just fine both when the AC is on and when the engine is hot without AC. That system seems to be working fine.
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mine was overheating, turns out my water pump was shot and not turning sometimes
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i have the 160F t-stat... never overheats :)
winter time you can bet i will be installing an 87C t-stat tho!!! by then i hope to have my 1Z tdi installed, but so many snags :(
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I am seeing some weeping from the water pump. Small amount but there. Maybe a sign. I'm still betting on a crack in the head or head gasket maybe.
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for a cheap solution why don't you try www.steelseal.com and get back to us. you will be our guinea pig! FOR SCIENCE! check out their video... pretty convincing!
and as it is being used and tested for science, i will buy a bottle of it for you if you're willing to try it out. the only stipulation is that you must document (with pictures or even a video) the use of it and make a thread on the forum. i've always wondered if this stuff would work like they say it does.
having to pull your head, get it shaved, etc just because of a blown hg is quite a bit of work, money (machine work, head bolts, head gasket, and other non re-useable gaskets), downtime etc. for those of us who just want to 'run' this would be an excellent solution (except for those of us who do extreme damage to our motors by 'tweaking' them too much :oops:)
for those of us who have the necessary equipment to fix a hg issue for relatively cheap this wouldn't really be very appealing method, but then again not all of us have access to a machine shop and an abundance of tools (don't forget the motor has to be re-timed etc. but you can probably just get away with using the camshaft locking plate and keeping the IP locked...)
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I'm going to replace the water pump first. Then the Steel Seal stuff. Noticed there is a on-the-shelf brand in Wally World. Same people who make AlumaSeal. Wonder if it's the same as SteelSeal?
I'm up for the test and documentation. I do this kind of stuff all the time.
Let the games begin.
As an aside, I'm looking for a Canadian TD to put in this Caddy. Seems those folks did not put all the electronic stuff on theirs so it's a straight bolt in. If anyone knows of one....and the Steel Seal is a bust.... New motor in the budget.
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Part of the process to use Steel seal is to locate the cylinder that is causing the problem. Mmmm, how? Would I expect to see a deposit on the glow plug in the offending cylinder? SteelSeal tech support called me just 12 hrs after posting a question to their web site. Nice tech support. Seems in order for this stuff to find the break/crack, that cylinder has to be taken off line while running the engine.
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hmmm now that is interesting... i thought the way that the steel seal worked was by using high pressure & heat to 'seal' the leak spot. finding out exactly which side of the HG is problematic might be a bit difficult... but it does make sense because a gasser will not fire with excess coolant in the cylinder, giving steel seal time to do its job. a diesel would probably just push the steel seal out the exhaust, or even past the rings?
i wonder if it is possible to run the car on 2 cylinders @ 1500 rpm. would need something to catch the diesel coming out of the injector lines though.
good info
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The last time that I checked for the price of Steel Seal I could buy a head gasket and stretch bolts. Why would I want to believe that this magic in a can would be any better than a new gasket?
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The last time that I checked for the price of Steel Seal I could buy a head gasket and stretch bolts. Why would I want to believe that this magic in a can would be any better than a new gasket?
there are always those who will be pessimistic about a product such as this. like i said before a product like this would be for the type of person who doesn't have much free time, and just wants his/her car to 'run'. who's to say that pulling his head and using a fresh HG & bolts will solve his problem? maybe the head is warped and needs to be shaved. that is extra downtime, extra cost, and an extra vehicle is required to transport the head to/from the machine shop.
and don't forget the amount of time required to do a HG compared to steel seal... not everyone can accomplish a HG job like a pro either. if the motor was going to be used for racing, then yes do it properly.
and not everyone has a good shop to do it at home... so many reasons why this product would be excellent if it works like they say it does.
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Are you selling yourself on this stuff, JT? If I was stuck on the road somewhere I'd be the first person in line to try it. Why not? Maybe this thread needs to see that the other option is not unreasonable. Steel Seal can flog all the testimonials that it wants to. It sort of reminds me of all the other great products out there that we are told work so well that we can't live without them. Remember "Slick 50" ?? Or if you are old enough "Rislone" ??
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Dude! Don't knock the Rislone! That with 5 fresh qts of 20w-50 helped quite an old car down just enough so I could unload it! Nice and quite. :lol: :lol:
The best part is that the guy I sold it to was my girlfriends ex-boyfriend. 8) :lol: :lol:
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Are you selling yourself on this stuff, JT? If I was stuck on the road somewhere I'd be the first person in line to try it. Why not? Maybe this thread needs to see that the other option is not unreasonable. Steel Seal can flog all the testimonials that it wants to. It sort of reminds me of all the other great products out there that we are told work so well that we can't live without them. Remember "Slick 50" ?? Or if you are old enough "Rislone" ??
i'm not really selling myself on the stuff (yet), but for the sake of trying and finding out if it actually works, i guess i am selling myself on that idea. i definitely would not try this product at the side of the road, unless it was the only option. i feel sorry for the poor man who buys a car and inherits a bad HG job, in which he now needs to fork out some hard earned cash to get it fixed properly. given two choices, i think nearly everyone would choose the cheaper, more affordable option. however most mechanics would definitely opt for doing the job right by tearing everything down (to which they can make absolutely certain that they will not get hosed by a "cheap" HG job)
slick 50 is an interesting product. a man tested it in a cessna airplane. he treated it with slick 50 lube, as directed, and then drained the oil and then proceeded to take the plane up and fly it around... call him crazy, but he's still alive, and that is a testament to that stuff. would i use it? nope, because i don't need to. great product for women who never check their oil level though (might save them from a costly engine repair bill).
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I hope to do the stealSeal process on the 18th. I'll order it soon so I have it in hand. I'll also do a compression test first. Is it possible to do the compression test through the injector holes?
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JT, I suggest that you take a look at some of the more sceptical research on the value of PTFE additives to motor oil.
Shortcut to: http://www.ford-trucks.com/article/idx/18/141/article/Snake_Oil__Is_That_Additive_Really_A_Negative.html
The Federal Trade Commission in the USA was successful in their case against Slick 50 for false advertising.
About doing a compression test through the glow plug holes, yes, it is possible. But the more conventional way of removing the injectors is easier because of the two glow plugs that are "hidden" behind the fuel pump.
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remember to get new heatsheilds
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If you look at the instructions on their web site, http://www.steelseal.com/eng/instructions.html, it's not a simple dump into the rad and drive fix. Having said that, a friend of mine used this on his Cavalier, and if you've ever worked on them you know what their head gaskets are like. After 3 garage head gasket replacements, he used this when he got another leak. The leak he had was external, not into the combustion chamber. According to him, the product worked exactly as advertised, and he has driven the car for at least three years since using the product with no further problems. I myself have used other competing products that are supposed to seal coolant leaks and all that I tried were pure snake oil, but based on his experience I wouldn't hesitate to use this product in a beater that I didn't want to tear into.
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If you look at the instructions on their web site, http://www.steelseal.com/eng/instructions.html, it's not a simple dump into the rad and drive fix. Having said that, a friend of mine used this on his Cavalier, and if you've ever worked on them you know what their head gaskets are like. After 3 garage head gasket replacements, he used this when he got another leak. The leak he had was external, not into the combustion chamber. According to him, the product worked exactly as advertised, and he has driven the car for at least three years since using the product with no further problems. I myself have used other competing products that are supposed to seal coolant leaks and all that I tried were pure snake oil, but based on his experience I wouldn't hesitate to use this product in a beater that I didn't want to tear into.
positive feedback, so far so good! thanks!
about the slick 50 with false advertising: yes, because they say it will give you better mileage, power, etc. but so will good old regular engine oil. what i said was that if the engine was run dry, the slick 50 might actually save the motor from seizing up. so again its just good for female drivers who don't like to check their oil.
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If Dupont chemists (the company that makes it, read the link) will not endorse the use of PTFE in motor oil, then why would you think that some huckster's promise of all kinds of value is anything but BS? (read the link about independent research)
The leak on a Cavalier motor from coolant jacket to atmosphere about 15 psi is an entirely different leak than one from the combustion chamber of a diesel at 500 psi to the coolant system like what has been described here. If Steel Seal works then all well and good but be prepared for the possibility that it fails especially after a couple of major temperature variations such as what you find in the winter where the block undergoes a significant expansion and contraction cycle because of the extreme temperature changes. Would you rather change the gasket in the winter or the summer? I know what my answer would be. I have spent too much time messing with vehicles in the cold and it has to be the worst possible time!
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If Dupont chemists (the company that makes it, read the link) will not endorse the use of PTFE in motor oil, then why would you think that some huckster's promise of all kinds of value is anything but BS? (read the link about independent research)
The leak on a Cavalier motor from coolant jacket to atmosphere about 15 psi is an entirely different leak than one from the combustion chamber of a diesel at 500 psi to the coolant system like what has been described here. If Steel Seal works then all well and good but be prepared for the possibility that it fails especially after a couple of major temperature variations such as what you find in the winter where the block undergoes a significant expansion and contraction cycle because of the extreme temperature changes. Would you rather change the gasket in the winter or the summer? I know what my answer would be. I have spent too much time messing with vehicles in the cold and it has to be the worst possible time!
Agreed, cold tools are the worst!
Garry
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If Dupont chemists (the company that makes it, read the link) will not endorse the use of PTFE in motor oil, then why would you think that some huckster's promise of all kinds of value is anything but BS? (read the link about independent research)
The leak on a Cavalier motor from coolant jacket to atmosphere about 15 psi is an entirely different leak than one from the combustion chamber of a diesel at 500 psi to the coolant system like what has been described here. If Steel Seal works then all well and good but be prepared for the possibility that it fails especially after a couple of major temperature variations such as what you find in the winter where the block undergoes a significant expansion and contraction cycle because of the extreme temperature changes. Would you rather change the gasket in the winter or the summer? I know what my answer would be. I have spent too much time messing with vehicles in the cold and it has to be the worst possible time!
again i'm not endorsing slick 50... i'm just saying that it did help a plane fly with no oil. so it is good for women who don't check their oil :lol: now lets get off slick 50 because its getting annoying.
i dont think 500 psi is much to worry about. i would worry more about the combustion cycle (if any) pressures. like i said before. this is only a trial. beater car use only.