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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: burn_your_money on July 30, 2007, 02:11:28 pm
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I think my friend may have timed his engine wrong and bent a few valves. This is what we are looking at. He is in Toronto so I can't really have a look at it myself
What are the chances that the head will need to be replaced?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/P7300157.jpg)
If you can't tell the cam lobe is not touching the lifter, it's stuck down there. He said he cranked the engine for about 40 seconds but it did not start after he timed it. If he turns the engine CCW the piston will push the lifter back up but it won't move on it's own
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You gotta pull the head to confirm. That lifter may need to be replaced. Was the car running beforehand? Unless we can get a look at the head surface, I would say the head may be still good, but the bore for the lifter may need to be checked. Have your friend remove the head, take the cam out and see if he can remove the bad lifter. The valves for sure will need to be replaced - also check the guides and seals.
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You gotta pull the head to confirm. That lifter may need to be replaced. Was the car running beforehand? Unless we can get a look at the head surface, I would say the head may be still good, but the bore for the lifter may need to be checked. Have your friend remove the head, take the cam out and see if he can remove the bad lifter. The valves for sure will need to be replaced - also check the guides and seals.
This is my car. Tyler is helping me out with it.
The car was running beforehand. I had changed the injector pump because the one on there was leaking. I thought to just put the timing back where it was after I swapped pumps... Sadly, I didn't know it was a destructive motor.. Nor did I think to turn it by hand first to find out if everything was groovey..
Live and learn i guess.
Will i need all the valves or just the 1?
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Is it doing that with only this valve? I'd pull the cam and see if the valve springs aren't broken first.
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Is it doing that with only this valve? I'd pull the cam and see if the valve springs aren't broken first.
As far as i can tell, its only the one valve. The rest are all touch, and i CAN rotate this engine about 1/8 of a turn side to side, but then it makes that nice metal click and i know it wont go any further...
I'm going to take the head off and bring it up to a friends shop and have him check it out. I want this motor to last, and i've already spent a lot of time on the car, so I might as well do it right.
Btw, the motor has less than 50k original.. :(
DANG!
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Just the one valve. Do us a favour and remove the head. Get us some pics of the suspect area. At this moment in time you may look into doing the timing belt and water pump, as your car is going nowhere at the moment....Even better, do the HG as well. Then you're set. :)
It's not that bad. It could have been running, then then the belt skips a couple teeth, and then you're into more $$$.
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Only 50K? Then skip the waterpump. Upgrade to the 1.9 HG though..
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Before you commit get a pricey replacement Jonas I think I might have a head for you.
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Ok, got the head off. Taking up to the shop now to have it checked and the valve(s) replaced.
Here are the pics. I wont be able to check the responses to this for a bit but dont make me cry too much k?
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/wikdslo/P7310156.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/wikdslo/P7310157.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/wikdslo/P7310158.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/wikdslo/P7310159.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/wikdslo/P7310160.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/wikdslo/P7310161.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/wikdslo/P7310162.jpg)
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From what I can see, doesn't look like there was any piston to valve contact.
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sounds like the problem i had a while back with mine.. had it fixed. one valve was almost 'dangling' there :lol: car drove alright and mileage was okay. power was decent... just some weird noise at idle and part acceleration.
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From what I see, all looks good. Get that one valve fixed and put on a 1.9 HG and new timing belt. You should be fine.
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From what I see, all looks good. Get that one valve fixed and put on a 1.9 HG and new timing belt. You should be fine.
lol, you and your damn 1.9 HG.. If I knew what the heck it was.. i might be inclined to try it..
But at this point, I just need/want the car running asap.
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He has a solid lifter head, a metal HG is probably out of the question (yes I know it can be done)
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Thanks for all the positive words guys. Here's hoping !
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I wouldn't worry about the head too much since the cam isn't broken and it was only cranking speed HOWEVER I would really worry about rod bearins...be sure to measure all your piston protrusions before you put the head back on, the solid lifter motors pass a lot of the force onto the piston (vs a hyd lifter that collapses and breaks). I have had one that spun a rod bearing after rebuilding the head from a broken timing belt, not fun. Hundreds of a mm matter here, be very specific with your measurements. Hopefully all measure out the same, but if you have one or two different from the rest a rod might be bent or the bearing damaged, do your research now before you have issues trying to get it running right....
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I wouldn't worry about the head too much since the cam isn't broken and it was only cranking speed HOWEVER I would really worry about rod bearins...be sure to measure all your piston protrusions before you put the head back on, the solid lifter motors pass a lot of the force onto the piston (vs a hyd lifter that collapses and breaks). I have had one that spun a rod bearing after rebuilding the head from a broken timing belt, not fun. Hundreds of a mm matter here, be very specific with your measurements. Hopefully all measure out the same, but if you have one or two different from the rest a rod might be bent or the bearing damaged, do your research now before you have issues trying to get it running right....
I can do that, care to elaborate or point me in the direction of finding out how I go about doing that?
Thanks!
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You're basically measuring how high above the block the piston travels. Every vw diesel does this, that is why there are 3 different sized headgaskets.
Basically just measure all 4 pistons and make sure they are the same
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yea when i took the head off my old td jetta for the 1st time
i had valve marks on the pistons
besides the idiot that used tons of copper spray tack on the hg
then i also found that i could use a 2 notch instead of a 3 notch
i slapped 'er back together+ran it
someone in its past must have timed it wrong+hit the valves too
you may be able to get away with new valves+seals
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The trouble is that even without being damaged they rarely measure the same from piston to piston...
Andrew
They are usually fairly close though right?
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They're usually close, but I have seen them taper from one side of the block to the other. I have seen the flywheel piston call for one gasket and the pulley side for the next notch up or down. If that is the case I go with the gasket that fits the piston of the greatest protrusion. That's a good reason to check all four.
Andrew
I'll check at lunch. So needless to say it's safe enough to turn the crank freely?
And I am scheduled to pick up the head tonight for reassembly.. (was told just the one valve, that's it) I know the process for tightening the bolts per a link on this page, but for the gasket, do i need to do anything, ie:
Clean the surface?
Use a gasket sealer?
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Both surfaces need to be clean but don't use any sealants or anything, just the gasket.
You know what thickness of gasket you are buying?
If you want to wait until sunday I can give you a hand
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Both surfaces need to be clean but don't use any sealants or anything, just the gasket.
You know what thickness of gasket you are buying?
If you want to wait until sunday I can give you a hand
The old one had 3 little notches on it, so I got mike to order me a 3 notcher.. I thought thats how it goes yeah?
Well, I think i can get it back on there myself. What do i clean the surface with?
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its always good to measure but you'l be fine with a 3 notch
Check this out Jonas
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4998&highlight=
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its always good to measure but you'l be fine with a 3 notch
Check this out Jonas
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4998&highlight=
Really? DId they make 3 notch gaskets of different size?
And on that block cleaning q, what about if stuff falls down into the cylinders with the pistons at the bottom.. Best way to clean that out, and how do I get EVERYTHING out of there?
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Great news!
I just found out, no bent valves. Twas but a crushed lifter.
Head will be good to go by tonight.
Here is my plant o clean and prep.
~ lower pistons below surface of block.
~Stuff holes with shop towel
~Scrape surface with razor blade to remove old gasket
~Clean surface with 400grit wet sanding paper
~Clean surface with brake cleaner
~Remove rags, clean in cylinders
~Same thing on the head, just no need to clean in combustion chamber.
I'm goint to try to make a screw taht i can cut the head off, and notch it so i can chase it right through the head, see how that works.
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Well, I got the head back, new tensioner, timing belt, head gasket, valve cover gasket, and head bolts..
But I'd rather not rush something I don't really know about, so Imma wait for you tyler :)
Shouldn't take us long i dont think.. provided everything goes smoothly.
See you Sunday holmes!
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Sounds good, glad to hear you got it all back together.
Give me a call when you get home, I'm in Missisauga right now
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Turns out it was just the crushed lifter. Threw the head back on (we had to re-use the head studs, but they were the 6pt 11mm ones) and it fired up and ran no problem.
Those 6pt ones are reusable right?
The timing was set at 1.02 IIRC, that should be good for an NA right?
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not sure on the head bolts, but 1.02 should be fine. running retarded just decreases emissions i believe and maybe torque???... advanced should give better economy.
glad to hear it was something simple!!!
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Turns out it was just the crushed lifter. Threw the head back on (we had to re-use the head studs, but they were the 6pt 11mm ones) and it fired up and ran no problem.
Those 6pt ones are reusable right?
The timing was set at 1.02 IIRC, that should be good for an NA right?
Thanks again for your help dude. Very much appreciated.
I hope the rest of your trip went well?
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It's going well thus far. That 16V that was in my passanger seat has been replaced with a 1.6TD :D
I'm hitting the JYs today and then on my way home
Thanks for the room and board, it's greatly appreciated
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It's going well thus far. That 16V that was in my passanger seat has been replaced with a 1.6TD :D
I'm hitting the JYs today and then on my way home
Thanks for the room and board, it's greatly appreciated
Anytime dude. Whenever you plan on coming down again, plan on spending at least a night here... It'll be more chilling, less working though