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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: insdtanoodles on July 28, 2007, 08:23:07 pm

Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: insdtanoodles on July 28, 2007, 08:23:07 pm
I took out my crank cause of too much thrust play to find it that its pretty much ruined, unless a crank shop can weld it back up and machine it I dont know cause im not sure how bad the damage is. Ive got a picture here if someone could check it out and tell me what they think http://www.flickr.com/photos/4657richter/934012703/ Just a notice to everyone else even thou they have prob heard it, if you got a 2 piece #3 bearing take it out now before its too late.
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: Kudagra on July 28, 2007, 08:55:02 pm
with enough money just about anything can be fixed. Best to ask a good local machine shop.

If you are in Canada you can probably find a crank pretty easy. Did it harm the block?
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: insdtanoodles on July 28, 2007, 09:01:16 pm
block looks good but the #3 cap has seen better days, if it can be fixed faster than finding a new crank then its gotta be fixed. I got 1 week to get this car back on its feet before work starts.
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: fatmobile on July 29, 2007, 12:57:03 am
What brand were the old bearings?
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: myke_w on July 29, 2007, 07:49:29 am
even the kolbenschmidt 3 pieces would be an issue IMO, next time don't risk it, just get the glyco's and get over it
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: insdtanoodles on July 29, 2007, 08:17:33 am
Quote from: "myke_w"
even the kolbenschmidt 3 pieces would be an issue IMO, next time don't risk it, just get the glyco's and get over it

these bearings were in the car when I got it, going to 6 pc route if the crank can be fixed. What do I measure to figure out what size thrust bearings I need to order, my bentely doesn't say.
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: myke_w on July 29, 2007, 08:53:05 am
thrust bearings are 1 size, they should technically fitted by the machine shop, but I've gotten away with using em straight up.
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: insdtanoodles on July 29, 2007, 09:10:53 am
Quote from: "myke_w"
thrust bearings are 1 size, they should technically fitted by the machine shop, but I've gotten away with using em straight up.

so if the bearings a too tight they are machined smaller? thats no problem I can do that myself.
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: jtanguay on July 29, 2007, 12:45:41 pm
i don't really see how that crank can be fixed properly (or cheaply).

wouldn't it be really hard to get in that tight area to do any welding? that does suck though.  i'm glad i bought what i needed from myke_w.  I hope to drive that m-TDI for a very long time!
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: insdtanoodles on July 29, 2007, 01:31:00 pm
Quote from: "jtanguay"
i don't really see how that crank can be fixed properly (or cheaply).

wouldn't it be really hard to get in that tight area to do any welding? that does suck though.  i'm glad i bought what i needed from myke_w.  I hope to drive that m-TDI for a very long time!


well I called up Canadian crankshaft and chrome today and told them what happened and they said it would be no problem to fix so I will see tomorrow how much it will cost. I asked they said it wasn't really all that hard of a job to do nor time consuming so I hope everything goes well and cheap
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: jtanguay on July 29, 2007, 05:56:08 pm
well they're the experts! as long as they back their work i suppose.  death to 2 piece bearings and integrated thrust washers!!!
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: insdtanoodles on July 29, 2007, 06:39:31 pm
Quote from: "jtanguay"
well they're the experts! as long as they back their work i suppose.  death to 2 piece bearings and integrated thrust washers!!!


yeah tell me about it, I wish I knew about them 2 years ago when the crank was out getting the nose re-machined. It is worn in pretty good, I hope that they can weld it up good and if not I gotta find a new crank tomorrow. Not having time sucks.

BTW: quick question, are the bearing caps used in the 4 cylinder gassers the same as the ones in the diesel motors? if they are I can rip one out of a car at the wreckers.
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: jtanguay on July 30, 2007, 11:32:33 am
not sure, but i will have some bearings out of my 1.9 TDI which should be the same.  approx 100'000km on them (motor came from europe... these things are pristine.  makes me wonder why i bought new stuff but oh well...)

you can have em for cheap, but i need to get a hold of the machine shop to check on progress.  i'm anxious to try the motor with total seal rings :)
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: insdtanoodles on July 30, 2007, 11:43:56 am
well I got my crank over to the shop, 100 bucks to fix the damage plus having the journals polished cause there was soo much metal flowing around in that engine :shock: not too bad
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: Black Smokin' Diesel on July 30, 2007, 02:54:49 pm
Quote from: "insdtanoodles"
well I got my crank over to the shop, 100 bucks to fix the damage plus having the journals polished cause there was soo much metal flowing around in that engine :shock: not too bad


That's a pretty good price, I expected 200 at least.
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: boosted_diesel_84 on July 31, 2007, 12:00:24 am
just curious, were you running a stock or upgraded clutch, because with a stronger clutch, it will put more load on the thrust, causing them to wear severly and prematurly
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: the4ork on July 31, 2007, 07:07:05 am
i just bought a rebuild kit from vwdiesel.net and im wondering if i got the crappy bearings? does anyone have a picture to compare the 3piece with the 'good' ones?
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: insdtanoodles on July 31, 2007, 09:00:15 am
Quote from: "boosted_diesel_84"
just curious, were you running a stock or upgraded clutch, because with a stronger clutch, it will put more load on the thrust, causing them to wear severly and prematurly

stock clutch
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: insdtanoodles on July 31, 2007, 09:07:17 am
Quote from: "the4ork"
i just bought a rebuild kit from vwdiesel.net and im wondering if i got the crappy bearings? does anyone have a picture to compare the 3piece with the 'good' ones?

2 pic bearings with thrust bearings, not good
(http://image.autopartsonlinecanada.com/live/A201038652GLY.JPG)

2 pcs without integrated thrust bearings
(http://image.autopartsonlinecanada.com/live/A2010188744GLY.JPG)
thrust bearings
(http://image.autopartsonlinecanada.com/live/A2130126638GLY.JPG)
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: QuickTD on July 31, 2007, 10:33:58 am
Quote
BTW: quick question, are the bearing caps used in the 4 cylinder gassers the same as the ones in the diesel motors? if they are I can rip one out of a car at the wreckers


You can't really interchange bearing caps between engines. The bores are machined into the caps after they have been assembled to the block, a cap from another block will not likely align properly. It is possible to use another cap if all the caps as well as the replacement are cut down slightly on the mating surface and align bored/honed to match them to the block bore. This will require a complete engine strip and another trip to the machine shop.
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: the4ork on July 31, 2007, 12:54:08 pm
Quote from: insdtanoodles
Quote from: "the4ork"
i just bought a rebuild kit from vwdiesel.net and im wondering if i got the crappy bearings? does anyone have a picture to compare the 3piece with the 'good' ones?

2 pic bearings with thrust bearings, not good
(http://image.autopartsonlinecanada.com/live/A201038652GLY.JPG)

mine look like these but the thrust bearings are golden in color like they are made out of brass or copper?

i ask because i want to get my bearings coated, and also i dont want the crappy ones... i believe mine are mahle and made in brazil...
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: fatmobile on August 01, 2007, 12:06:03 am
I don't think they are all bad... probably lots of cars running around with them, with no problem, even some of my fleet.
 Probably one manufacturer who made them out of a material that was too hard.
 It's difficult to find out what brand does the damage, I ask but can't get an answer... I suspect mayle.
 I'm with Jake in the old post,  I think some are copper underneath and don't do damage.
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: the4ork on August 01, 2007, 06:40:32 am
Quote from: "fatmobile"
I don't think they are all bad... probably lots of cars running around with them, with no problem, even some of my fleet.
 Probably one manufacturer who made them out of a material that was too hard.
 It's difficult to find out what brand does the damage, I ask but can't get an answer... I suspect mayle.
 I'm with Jake in the old post,  I think some are copper underneath and don't do damage.


mine are copper, i dropped them off to my engine builder yesterday and he says they  look completely normal and that i should use them... :?:
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: CoolAirVw on August 01, 2007, 08:26:20 am
Quote from: "insdtanoodles"
BTW: quick question, are the bearing caps used in the 4 cylinder gassers the same as the ones in the diesel motors? if they are I can rip one out of a car at the wreckers.


You cant interchange bearing caps between engines.
Title: Crank destroyed by 2 pc #3 bearing, fixable?
Post by: insdtanoodles on August 01, 2007, 10:51:30 pm
well I got my crank back and installed, fits perfectly but after all the damn work and money I dont really know how long this engine will last. The bearing destroyed most of the thrust bearing surface on the block, its got about 1/2 of what was orgionally there, it is in there good now but who know if it will stay there in the future and other than a new block the only way around it is another 2pc bearing and then I would have to go throught all this crap again... sigh :(  but if anyone needs any crank work done I defenatly reccomend canadian crankshaft and chrome, awesome guys