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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Riverfurm on July 07, 2007, 05:44:34 am
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I am looking for an downpipe for my 86 Golf NA to Turbo 1.6 swap. I was waiting till I got my IP back from Gile before I order an downpipe from Passenger Performance, but now I found out PP discontinued the downpipe. I sent them a few Emails with no responce (I'll give them a call Monday) I don't see a listing for a diesel on the Techtonics page either.
Any ideals on were I can get a good downpipe so I can do my swap????
Thanks
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techtonics only makes that pipe for the mk1. and its 300 dollars, it's only 2 1/4 inch as well. *** that i can have a muffler shop make me one for less than that. but as of now there is upgraded down pipe available for your car, you'll need to find a second hand pp pipe, make your own, or have a shop make one.
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PP is now making 3" SS DP's. Check the vendors section.
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While I agree that the PP downpipes are the best, I just put the techtonics pipe on my car (since PP stopped making them a few weeks too early!). The quality was excellent, and while expensive it's a decent product.
I was going to make it myself, but after calculating the cost of the flanges, pipe, flex chamber (all stainless), not to mention the hours of goofing around to make it fit, I thought the $300 was a fair price for a fully stainless pipe.
As far as it only being 2.25", it's plenty for my needs. I think I would have difficultly fitting a 3" pipe down there, clearance is tight with the 2.25 pipe.
Good luck!
Garry
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I've been running a TT 2.5" SS pipe on my '79 for a couple years, summers only. I did the same thing as you, priced out the cost of the raw materials from Burnes Stainless and a custom made pipe from TT was still cheeper. I even had the flanges already cut out in SS.
I have yet to experience the exploding SS phenominae, and have seen no evadence of its impending doom.
The welds looked pritty good to me too. My only constructive criticism I have is they used a mild steel flange on the turbo. I like the fit too, I have the Autotech 4 point sub-frame, and the TT pipe made it over that as well, it tuckes up in the tunnel nice, stays away from the plastic goods on the shifter, and gives you a good shot at missing the shift boot.
oh, and they said they'd never-ever make another 2.5" pipe because it was too hard.
TT's current offering; http://www.techtonicstuning.com/showpart.asp?partnum=251.224
I have one of Dave's pipes on my other Rabbit. I'm relutant to say that Dave's pipe is superior to the TT pipe as I see no evadence to support such a claim. I guess we'll see which one explodes first. But Daves pipe will be at a disadvantage, as thats on the winter rabbit, and that will see more extreme temperature swings.
But now I'm kind of having a problem... 3" sounds very intregueing, and I'd really like the challenge of getting 3" over a rabbit rear axel. I guess I'll have to see what Dave's pipe looks like and see how much my need/want level rises.
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What I like about the TT Down Pipe is that they include the mounting for the stock support bracket on the Manifold.
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Actually, its a muffler clamp, with a strip of metal welded to it and the turbo flange. Not too elegant, but apearently effective.
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My pipe came with a stainless flange on it. We had to grind it a little to make more clearance, and boy was it hard!
Garry
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I suppose I got the mild steel flange because it was a custom build and they couldn't machine the SS flanges bigger in house.
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Well all the info on TT downpipe is good for someone else, but I need one for an 86 Golf. I called Dave at PP and left a message, sent a coulpe of Email and a PM but no answer, is he on vacation?
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Well all the info on TT downpipe is good for someone else, but I need one for an 86 Golf. I called Dave at PP and left a message, sent a coulpe of Email and a PM but no answer, is he on vacation?
Sorry I have been out of town for the last 3 days on business. I am going to respond to your PM tonight.
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I suppose I got the mild steel flange because it was a custom build and they couldn't machine the SS flanges bigger in house.
Actually the mild steel flange is superior for reliability, given it was welded properly.
But from the TT pipes I have had to repair (I think I am up to 4 for the tdi versions and who knows how many gas versions) the welding has been crap, and the ghetto bracket from the flange to the first bend in the downpipe is the first warning flag. Theres no need to brace the downpipe there if its welded properly.
I don't have a big problem with TT I buy plenty of their other stuff, but I would be slightly hesitant to recommend their downpipes, at least the models I have repaired anyways.
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It does make sence that you'd have a slightly biased view on them though, who brings you a perfercly good DP to repair?
I'm not trying to knock you in anyway though, just mentioning a variable that may be overlooked. I know when I get my DP it will be from you 8)
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Yeah I know it looks biased but I do buy other stuff from tt like valve springs and stuff. Its just their fab quality I do not think is very good, not as bad as 034 motorsport though, I could almost make a living off the 034 stuff I have to repair :lol:
People seem to be happy with the mk1TD downpipes from what I read in this thread and thats great. I am all for competition, if someone makes something better than me you can guarantee that I will come back and make something better again. :arrow:
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oh God, dont get me started on 034, at the shop i work at, we have a audi coupe quattro were doing a ***-ton to, and its a track car, the owner found out 034 was selling brand new "quick ratio" steering racks for his car, so he dropped the $500 or w/e it was for it, it comes in the mail, and is nothing more than a USED audi 4 cyl. rack that was wire-wheeled to take the greese and rust off and still looked like hell!!!!
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oh God, dont get me started on 034, at the shop i work at, we have a audi coupe quattro were doing a ***-ton to, and its a track car, the owner found out 034 was selling brand new "quick ratio" steering racks for his car, so he dropped the $500 or w/e it was for it, it comes in the mail, and is nothing more than a USED audi 4 cyl. rack that was wire-wheeled to take the greese and rust off and still looked like hell!!!!
Oh man I know, I've been doing so much audi fab lately, all the 034 downpipes don't fit, the last two I tried installing on a urS4 and a urS6 didn't even bolt up! They were $600USD a piece, the welding was crap, the materials were crap, I fixed one of them to make it fit, it cracked on one of the 034 welds two weeks later, the other customer was so pissed I don't even know what he did with it, but I made him a custom one.
And their software... man just go standalone guys.
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Well, I definately would go for the 3" pipe next time around, which hopefully won't be too far down the road from now. I don't have any doubt which one is truly the superior product. Heck, I might buy one sooner and sell the TT one before it cracks!
Garry
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IIRC, the outlet on the k14, k24 and garret turbo isnt even 3", more like 2.25" So why the 3" downpipe craze?
As long as the pipe is at least as big as the outlet, it should spool as fast as it ever will, right? bigger is just excessive isn't it?
The picture in my mind is this - garden hose on full blast hooked up to a fire hose..
In other words, everything is limited by the size of the initial outlet, correct?
help me see the logic.
myke_w
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I think, but don't quote me on this as "THE WORD," but I think that it has to do with setting up the pressure differential across the restriction.
I mean, the manifold pipes and valve openings aren't two and a quarter inches in diameter, but fitting an exhaust pipe up to that size helps anyway, right? Free flowing and all that. What I think happens, is the bigger your pipe after the restriction, the lower the pressure on that side.
As pressure differential increases across a restriction, flow increases. So if you're going for flow, you want as big a pressure differential across that restriction as possible, ideally without increasing any of the pressures involved (as that would mean you're working the engine harder just to push gases out).
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Ideally, the pipe needs to be significantly bigger to change the spiral flow coming out of the turbo into turbulent flow. Turbulant flow is allot faster than spiral flow.
On the 1.6TDs: 2.5 flows better than the original exhaust, and its a quantum leap. 3" flows better than 2.5", and its noticable, but not a quantum leap.
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IIRC, the outlet on the k14, k24 and garret turbo isnt even 3", more like 2.25" So why the 3" downpipe craze?
As long as the pipe is at least as big as the outlet, it should spool as fast as it ever will, right? bigger is just excessive isn't it?
The picture in my mind is this - garden hose on full blast hooked up to a fire hose..
In other words, everything is limited by the size of the initial outlet, correct?
help me see the logic.
myke_w
The k14,k24,t2,and t3 turbines are all 2.25" outlets.
The reason the downpipe needs to be larger is because the exhaust gas is under pressure and it is EXPANDING. The water in the hose is not. Going to a larger size allows the exhaust to escape/expand faster, which: reduces pressure post turbo (allowing turbo to spool up sooner), less pressure in this situation also means less heat, both egts and in just plain cooking your turbo which heats up the journal area and super heats your oil.
Anyone have a picture from Corkey Bell's turbo book showing the swirl change post turbine with the use of a transition?
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Ideally, the pipe needs to be significantly bigger to change the spiral flow coming out of the turbo into turbulent flow. Turbulant flow is allot faster than spiral flow.
On the 1.6TDs: 2.5 flows better than the original exhaust, and its a quantum leap. 3" flows better than 2.5", and its noticable, but not a quantum leap.
vortex generators,my man ,vortex generators
vortex generators will change the spiral flow to turbulent,for improved flow
:wink:
http://x-jets.com