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Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: hillfolk'r on July 03, 2007, 08:29:50 pm
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the tdi-m has been runnin good ,and remember that holset "hybrid" turbo i was building ?? yea i have finally got it on this past weekend...
its sketchy .....
as it was,ive blown like 3 stock 1.6 td turbos (2 garretts,and a kkk)
thats because i like to basically let them run "closed wastegate"
yea it runs great,itll swing the 30psi vdo guage around to the zero pointer
the more boost,the more power(yea even though at the end of a 1/4 run itll be pushing like 1500 pre turbo temps)
put tha setup on a dyno@full load for 5 minutes and you will have scrapmetal
the thing is,i need that crazy power,im tryin to get in the 13's
so i tried a holset hy35 carteridge+compressor with a remachined (to fit turbine wheel)hx30w exh. housing
before the power would come on around 2000,and be at full chat by 2400,and pull to 3800-4000 before falling flat on its face
the holset starts to come on around 2700,and around 3300 or so ,it comes alive,and pulls till 4500
but its not enough to make up for it at the far end
my gtech was givin lame 0-60 times of 6.1,where as before it was mid 5's,,but ive gotten a few 9.5 second 1/8 mile times,(garrett was hi 9's),with low-mid 14 times still........
my exhaust temp is like ice cold at the end of a run too,,like 1100,AND THAT IS GOOD..BUT.......oops caps
:lol:
i was told that i probably wouldnt need the wastegate,cause i wont have enough "engine" to spool up that bad boy.....
surprise,
its still peggin the guage+blowin off boost pipes like crazy,hose clamps only do so much :twisted: :twisted:
thats what i need ,a turbo in between those 2 extremes
i know its flowin a lot of air,due to the lower temps.....
i understand a little(enough to get in trouble,apparently),,,i sorta understand ar ratios on an exhaust housing,ie: larger ar,,more lag,possibly not enough flow from engine to spool basically,etc
if the exhaust housing could be even smaller on this holset ,itd be fine
crazy idea,but a turbo with the garrett/kkk exhaust housing,with that holset compressor side sounds like fun times
:wink:
ive got a t3 flange manifold,should i get one of those chinese"super 60" ebay turbos and what would be a good one??dont forget ,im "hardcore" so i still want a "big turbo",lol rofl
oh yea thats right,i blew the head gasket testing it tonite,i had some coolant blow out the rad cap(thats why you leave the hood off for testing)
:roll:
ill post up some ebay crap,and maybe you guys could tell me what looks good..
id like to go cheap right now,,i dont know how much i can get from my "sponsers"
http://cgi.ebay.com/T3-T4-AR48-INTERNAL-WASTEGATE-TURBO-OIL-RETURN-LINE-KIT_W0QQitemZ300125159607QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/TURBONETIC-T3-T04-TURBO-BRAND-NEW-WITH-FITTINGS-LINES_W0QQitemZ320132683868QQihZ011QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/T3-T4-T3-T4-T04E-HYBRID-TURBO-CHARGER-AR50-OIL-LINE_W0QQitemZ300124396805QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/T3-TURBO-CHARGER-UNIVERSAL-A-R-42-LIKE-NEW_W0QQitemZ120136736590QQihZ002QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/V-BAND-T3-T4-TURBO-AR-58-INTERNAL-WASTEGATE-OIL-LINE_W0QQitemZ250137154063QQihZ015QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
any help is appreciated,cause lord knows i need it :roll:
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Hey Blake, haven't seen you on here in a long while, hows it going?
I wouldn't try downsizing the turbine side anymore than you already have, you will most likely run into surge issues. I would work on increasing flow, to get the turbo spooling sooner, this means tubular exhaust manifold, better intake manifold, ported head, camshaft etc. How much boost are you making with your hybrid holset? Another BIG contributor to spooling up the turbo is your downpipe, whats the diameter? Is there a transition off the outlet flange? What are the radii of the bends?
And last of all, any pics of that *** :twisted:
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Hey Blake, haven't seen you on here in a long while, hows it going?
I wouldn't try downsizing the turbine side anymore than you already have, you will most likely run into surge issues. I would work on increasing flow, to get the turbo spooling sooner, this means tubular exhaust manifold, better intake manifold, ported head, camshaft etc. How much boost are you making with your hybrid holset? Another BIG contributor to spooling up the turbo is your downpipe, whats the diameter? Is there a transition off the outlet flange? What are the radii of the bends?
And last of all, any pics of that *** :twisted:
heywhats goin on??? long time no hear,lol
yea funny how movin+starting a new job can cause people to "disappear"
now that im settled in,,theres time for the internets,lol
dont get me wrong,i never stopped wrenchin though
ill have to get some pics,,its at the hangar
yea i realize i need a nice exhaust manifold,,,im using an early manifold modified to fit upside down,(and dual outlet ported out)with a 1 inch thick adapter plate/plenum/etc for right now till i get my custom one done,thanks Mr.Bridgeport
look out,now i know how to use a lathe+mill,so theres nothing that cant be done
it looks sick,wish it ran sick
if i get a turbo setup that "feels" good,then ill finish the custom exhaust+intake manifold
itll go 40 psi right now easy
ive got a 3 inch dp with 4.5 inch radius bends,,it ends right under the steering rack
i need a "smaller " turbo.....
im not sure,but lookin at the garrett, i think theres a .35 in the exhaust housing(possibly the ar??)
and a .42 in the compressor housing(im positive that ive heard thats the ar)
im thinkin if that .35 is the exhaust ar,,than around a .45 or so would help reduce backpressure,since it seems a little "choked" with the stock garrett
and then make the intake side like .6 maybe for more airflow....
ill admit i dont totally know what the dealio is with the ar numbers they list
arent other parameters important ,like engine size??
you dont use a turbo from a c-12 cat on a lawnmower obviously...heehee
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I'd finish the intake and exhaust manifolds now, they'll help the performance greatly, given they are engineered right. You might also consider a 4" DP. Or I'd look into pump work, make that *** rev to 6000rpm, and get some more dynamic advance, you'll be laughin.
If your just gonna give up on that turbo (which I don't think you should its about perfect for what you want to do in my opinion) than let me know what you want for it!
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Oh also forgot to point out that your current turbine side is a traditional t3 turbine inlet flange, so if you build a manifold for it now and still aren't happy than you can put on any other t3 flanged turbo, although your 6cm hosuing is just as small as any other t3 inlet flanged turbine... umm yeah nevermind. You gotta go with your turbo or back to the stock t3's and machine some bigger wheels in them because you 6cm is already like a .42 AR, although I have no idea what sized wheel you are running in there, that matters too. Any pics/details on your holset hybrid?
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ill have to get pics for ya
im tryin to get somethin goin before waterfest
the hx30w exh . housing is from a 3.9b cummins
the carteridge+compressor housing is from a hy35(5.9 b/ 2001 dodge truck)
to fit the wheel in the small housing the housing needed to be machined out,,i think andy2 did somethin similar
i paid a nice chunk for the housing,and the turbo
id take 200,shipping extra,it came from a truck with 40k
i do have the orig. exhaust housing for the hy35
how about a huge compressor for the stock garrett??
but since i got the t3 manifold,id rather go aftermarket,its just confusing to size one up,,and i dont wanna gamble as much (again)
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I'll take the turbo if you want to get rid of it. I honestly can't think of a better turbo for you, I think you will run into surge issues putting a compressor anywhere close to that size on a stock 1.6 turbine t3. I'll think about it tomorrow.
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ive been looking around on the internets at those "sizing charts",and ive got a problem with most of them
i think they are more related to gas engines
usually one of the first questions is v.e.(volumetric efficency)
im thinkin its way higher than a "standard" 70-80%
and so how can you size one properly if your math is bad from the get go??
the thing that gets me is everyone was sayin "that holset wont work"
well it sorta does,so to me that seems to say that this bad boy (1.9 tdi)moves a serious amount of air
ive not heard any surging either with the holset (it has that anti surge inlet "thingee")
so it seems like it wants a serious compressor,with a semi-small exhaust housing to keep response up
i used to know this guy in ohio that used to hang out with art arfons,and i vaguely remember him sayin that those sizing charts have some crucial info missing to help in proper sizing
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maybe there is a other turbinewheel with more blades, it will spool up quicker.
Greetz, Benjamin
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possibly....
im thinkin some kind of t3 with a (approx) a .48 turbine housing
and around a .6 compressor housing
it just gets a little confusing with so many different trim options
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in response to your post in Joe's thread about the T3 60-trim
the problem you're going to run into is compressor surge because of the boost pressures you run. You're pressure ratio is way on the surge side of the compressor map.
here's a map for that turbo
(http://www.turbofast.com.au/img/t3-60.JPG)
here's the map for a holset HY35W (HE351 from an HO model Cummins)
notice the very high pressure ratios it's capable of vs the garrett? Problem is, you're still playing with the surge line really bad. a TDI at 20psi requires 20.04 CMf at 4500rpm and has a pressure ratio of 2.42. CMf goes up as boost pressure goes up, but I don't think it's enough to pull it inside the surge line.
(http://www.eville140.com/7755.jpg)
EDIT:
here's your requirements at 35psi, but you'll need to get your intake temps down, I'm not sure what you're running, it'll all be in vain if the intake air is hot.
35psi : 28.7 at 4500rpm or 35.1 at 5500rpm with a pressure ratio of 3.48
actually, the holset is perfect if you can get up there without too much surge. as you rev more (I do my calculations at 4500rpm just cause I won't really by revving it much) the requirements jump, and it puts the turbo in a pretty sweet spot.
HOWEVER, I think your going to start running into exhaust side flow problems, and is probably why your EGTs are so high,
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egts are horrendus with the "stock" garrett,like over 1500 degrees at the end of a 1/4 run
i basically let it go closed wastegate,for max boost,i think it goes to 40 psi at least,and i used to shift at about 4000
the holset setup doesnt spool good till 3500(way too late),but egt's are very low(like 1100),and up top it goes over 40psi also
now i sort of understand that the holset is flowing more air,hence the lower egt's,,but if it would spool earlier ,it would be a good setup
im thinkin to ditch the holset completely,and try somethin else....but im not sure of what...
yea ok,ill go 4500rpms,,and around 35-40 psi if needed
i dont run an ic(with either turbo)
the water injection does help
its like:if the stock garrett was a little larger on the exhaust side,and the compressor side was alot bigger,im thinkin it would be perfect
any way to figure out how much air the stock garrett is flowing at 40+psi???
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I'm not sure what turbo the 1.6s came with, but you should be able to find a map somewhere.
at 40psi, it's definitely not doing anything. It gets to a point where it's just blowing hot air, it stops flowing any more air and just starts heating the air it is flowing.
here's the map for the VNT15 that comes on TDIs, which is what I have, I've actually calculated that it can take 21psi, plenty for me, but definitely more than the 17psi everyone says.
but definitely not enough for you, but will give an idea of a small OE turbo and how little it really flows.
map is in kg/min not lb/min, so flow looks tiny, but it's actually about double what the map says.
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4015/1366vnt15mapgr4.jpg)
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bump
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6736/hpim0815yp6.jpg)
(http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4905/hpim0814oa9.jpg)
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3259/hpim0813ap0.jpg)
ijust let the water injection peepee in like a gardenhose,,this is all temporary,just remember that.
its for testing only,and isnt a permanent install
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2680/hpim0817xf4.jpg)
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2180/hpim0819gq5.jpg)
(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5628/hpim0821rv7.jpg)
yum, woodgrain
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9453/hpim0825ai0.jpg)
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8888/hpim0822be3.jpg)
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7483/hpim0826jo0.jpg)
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sorry about the pics bein so big....i sized them wrong in imageshack :oops:
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I'm not sure what turbo the 1.6s came with, but you should be able to find a map somewhere.
at 40psi, it's definitely not doing anything. It gets to a point where it's just blowing hot air, it stops flowing any more air and just starts heating the air it is flowing.
here's the map for the VNT15 that comes on TDIs, which is what I have, I've actually calculated that it can take 21psi, plenty for me, but definitely more than the 17psi everyone says.
but definitely not enough for you, but will give an idea of a small OE turbo and how little it really flows.
map is in kg/min not lb/min, so flow looks tiny, but it's actually about double what the map says.
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4015/1366vnt15mapgr4.jpg)
ezekiel's posts really sum up alot of good points when it comes to choosing the correct 'charger for the engine, etc. Very important things to look at! I'd never run the 1.6 TD t3's on my setup because of their inefficiencies up in the higher RPM's, especially when you start talking 25+psi of boost or so where they really just start pumping hot air vs. cooler air. There is a trade off to be had there. They spool so great, but will eventually loose their breath as well. Its in part why I went to the merc .42 .48 50 trim compressor intially on the mTDI in my MK1. Notice how I said initially :) Its a temp setup as it isn't a super efficient turbo but does offer the compromise that I was in particular looking for. I can't say for sure when it really starts spooling at the moment (see other thread, getting a Dakota Digital tach convertor as I'm having issues with the optical setup and the old style tach...)but its not too late. Also, fueling has to do with it as well since I've only got the Sprint 216's in at the moment. I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to have a holset and try it out on my setup with R520s and the intercooling that I have setup. I think it'd be fun, but again, there is some "hybrid" work to do to make things work very nicely...hmm, maybe this winter! Also considering a GT series unit possibly as well.
Its where the VNT makes things so nice...the benefits of the smaller A/R turbo in the low end with the benefits of still being able to breath by adjusting the A/R to be larger in the higher end. Its so beautiful! I only wish there where more simpler ways to provide accurate control for the VNT mechanically. For instance, I've seen a couple mechanical linkage variations that are excellent...but they wouldn't clear my intake manifold arrangment. On the vac. side of things, "good" and "accurate" vac. control hasn't been tried, tested and "trued" mechanically to my liking yet either (I remember Jake's post about the VNT 15 on his dads IDI TD).
I can see what you mean in a world of SOOOO many options when it comes to turbos how and what is the best too choose. I still say that if one could have the slightly larger A/R hot side...say .42-.48 and a slightly larger compressor side... .48-.52 , it'd be a nice setup that doesn't sacrifice low end power/spooling but still breathes efficiently higher up in the boost range.
In the end it does come down to some simple things though. Eventually..any unit as mentioned will just start producing hot air...and then you've defeated your purpose of using a "compressor" in the first place. A good intercooler setup with the water injection would go a hell of a long way if you wanted to do it...especially in the EGT realm I imagine too! If the intake temperature sensor/gauge setups weren't so expensive at the moment, I'd get one and test to see how much my setup will change in the next week or so here...
The search for the "best" turbo continues...think it all depends on what your goals are and where you are willing to make your sacrifices...
Hmm...this is where that old topic of "clutched supercharger w/ turbocharger" comes in interesting...
Joe
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United States Patent 5218822
Link to this page:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5218822.html
Abstract:
The compressor for a turbocharger includes an assist system to provide a power stream of a driving fluid such as air to act on the impeller of the compressor until the driving power of the exhaust gases from an internal combustion engine are sufficient to drive the impeller. The compressor includes a housing forming a compression chamber in which the impeller is rotatably disposed. The impeller has a floor with a plurality of blades projecting from the floor. A plenum surrounds the housing and is connected to a source of pressurized air for supplying air to the compression chamber to drive the impeller. An aperture is provided through the housing for each blade and communicates the air from the plenum to the compression chamber and against the blades. The axis of the aperture is coincident with a line extending from the lower outer radial edge of the blade adjacent the floor to the point at which the air jet from the aperture impinges upon the next successive blade
Your AC compressor should be able to store enough between passes right?[/code]
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Blake! Good to see you still around! So are you in NY for good or back in OH? (looking at your profile)
I cant help but giggle like a schoolgirl looking at pics of your setup. :D
Maybe try a Holset H1C turbine housing on your current compressor housing? Dunno if they'd fit together, but the H1C I think is a little smaller still, plus it's non-wastegated.
I've looked and looked at compressor maps until I'm blue in the face and it's hard to find something that works for M-TDI's in the high hp/boost range. I still plan on the super/turbo combo on mine eventually. But I've got so much other crap going on right now I have no time to wrench and no money to get parts!!!
From the multitude of blown T3's you have had, do you happen to have any of the wastegate "valves" from any of those? Mine is fokked. :P
Good luck!
Brendan
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Blake! Good to see you still around! So are you in NY for good or back in OH? (looking at your profile)
I cant help but giggle like a schoolgirl looking at pics of your setup. :D
Maybe try a Holset H1C turbine housing on your current compressor housing? Dunno if they'd fit together, but the H1C I think is a little smaller still, plus it's non-wastegated.
I've looked and looked at compressor maps until I'm blue in the face and it's hard to find something that works for M-TDI's in the high hp/boost range. I still plan on the super/turbo combo on mine eventually. But I've got so much other crap going on right now I have no time to wrench and no money to get parts!!!
From the multitude of blown T3's you have had, do you happen to have any of the wastegate "valves" from any of those? Mine is fokked. :P
Good luck!
Brendan
aah shoot,well actually i havent sold the house in ohio yet
i gotta change my profile to "lagrange,ny"
yea i got a few of those turbos layin around
deo has a couple of turbos layin around from some mercedes+stuff
since i got the t3 adapter manifold,i may have to give them a try
im tired of lookin at maps too,its time to just try somethin,anything!!!!
im not wasting my 35$ drag race registration fee for waterfest!!!
i dont care if it costs me 500$ :lol:
hey joe,your turbo doesnt sound too bad and at least its bigger than a stock td turbo right??
maybe it would be better than what ive got at least....
this thing is puttin the fuel to it pretty good ,thats not a problem
and for basic testing,intakes+exhausts "sort of" dont matter to just get a basic "feel" for the way a turbos characteristics will be
of course after i find somethin i like,then ill do a "nice"install
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I'll soon have the hx30w on as a single turbo in a day or two to give you guys some results on how it spools etc..
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nice,,,,,i dont mind a little lag,,just 3500 is crazy
mid 2000 's is ok,,a little higher than stock,,and if the exh. temps(1500+) stay under what the garrett was givin,thad be great
one nice thing on the holset was the 1100 degree temps
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there's an interesting post in IDI about using a G60 G-ladder on a diesel.
might be something to think about? so you can use a big turbo,
or maybe some sort of dual setup like a big rig? I'm just not so sure we have enough exhaust gas to make something like that work.
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go for the merc. unit for WF if you need too. Its not bad, turbine side and trim is larger than the stock T3's... though, the compressor still holds at .42
Uses standard T3 flange and a standard 4 bolt discharge, just like the stock IDI TD units.
Let me know how it does for you if you do so...since I don't have my R520's yet...its hard for me to really gauge honestly sometimes I think. Compressor maps do get cumbersome and tiring to look at!
Joe
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Nice job on the install :D , that thing looks huge :shock: , Since your mechanical injection, why don't you try throwing some more timing into the motor........
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blake man I called you several times and left messages.. I'm doing my passat interior swap this weekend.. man your turbo is sold if you want it to be..I'll buy it!!!!..as I was just gonna machine my hy35 any way.. I'd really like yours.. give me a shout .. you need to cut your head for some 1 piece fire rings.... that will solve the head gasket issue real quick.. plus you guys got the machine shop now to cut em....call me ..maybe the # i have is wrong???
ha..
later,
deo..
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yea maybe the # you had is wrong,,cause my cell never rang,,or the house phone either i dont think,,ichecked caller id,,,no calls from youi may ........
dont worry about buying the turbo from me for$$$
the way i see it,,,if you can use it,,go for it!!!
id like to see ya try it.....ill haveta stop over
the headgasket job is almost done....ive gotta torque it+finish reassembly
imay try firing it up na with the upside down manifold,,,ill hillfolk on the dual downpipe thru the hood,lol
whatever turbo i use,,im definately gettin that 3 inch dp to fit
still gotta fix the fuelline plumbing,,and the nonfunctional ebrake
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I saw your note .. i think i had a 3 wrong on your new home phone?..any how I'll try it out ..maybe on my passat hehe
Later
Deo
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and if Deo doesn't try it... I'd def. try it. :) AWIC is in! Few things to clean up and it'll be good to go...and got the good word on the R520's :) within the next few weeks... need to find someone to reset my injectors to 250bar though...
Hey...what are you guys seeing EGT wise with the R520's...
Joe
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520s are they the.260 ones?.. thats waht blake and I run... with the holselt no more then 1100 tops...with 1.6TD stocker turbo ..1400 or so is possible if you don't have the turbo closed down ie full boost 30-35...
Blake and i did a turbo swap yesterday.. etc hes gonna try a few turbois i had in my basement.. mercedes td turbos etc..
Later
deo
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I'd finish the intake and exhaust manifolds now, they'll help the performance greatly, given they are engineered right. You might also consider a 4" DP. Or I'd look into pump work, make that *** rev to 6000rpm, and get some more dynamic advance, you'll be laughin.
If your just gonna give up on that turbo (which I don't think you should its about perfect for what you want to do in my opinion) than let me know what you want for it!
4" downpipe :shock: thats way overkill, I know of 2 turbo VR6's make well over 600whp with a 3" dp...............
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go for the merc. unit for WF if you need too. Its not bad, turbine side and trim is larger than the stock T3's... though, the compressor still holds at .42
Uses standard T3 flange and a standard 4 bolt discharge, just like the stock IDI TD units.
Joe
Wait.. the MB turbo has the same trapezoidal flange that the VW T3's do? What years/cars did the MB turbo come from? Maybe I'll try and find one of those instead of using this T-3.
Brendan
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go for the merc. unit for WF if you need too. Its not bad, turbine side and trim is larger than the stock T3's... though, the compressor still holds at .42
Uses standard T3 flange and a standard 4 bolt discharge, just like the stock IDI TD units.
Joe
Wait.. the MB turbo has the same trapezoidal flange that the VW T3's do? What years/cars did the MB turbo come from? Maybe I'll try and find one of those instead of using this T-3.
Brendan
I think MB turbo flange is different:
(http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3945/t33je0.jpg)
this one have 0,48 compressor
(http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7641/t3compppyz4.jpg)
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4" downpipe :shock: thats way overkill, I know of 2 turbo VR6's make well over 600whp with a 3" dp...............
Wow, I didnīt know they made diesel VR6 :shock:
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Blake, I love that exhaust system! No excess there...
I just got my Giles injection pump in the mail, should be installing that and an audi 5000 ic on the pickup by next week. Good luck finding the right turbo, this is a good thread to read...
Cheers,
Evan
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go for the merc. unit for WF if you need too. Its not bad, turbine side and trim is larger than the stock T3's... though, the compressor still holds at .42
Uses standard T3 flange and a standard 4 bolt discharge, just like the stock IDI TD units.
Joe
Wait.. the MB turbo has the same trapezoidal flange that the VW T3's do? What years/cars did the MB turbo come from? Maybe I'll try and find one of those instead of using this T-3.
Brendan
No...they have the standard 4 bolt rectangular inlet flange (t3 flange) but DO use the same discharge flange as the older IDI TD turbos do...as mentioned and shown below...
Guess I needed to clarify that... the "trapezoid" flange is def. not standard and is unique to VW from what I have ever seen.
Joe
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head gasket is done/finished job
i re clocked the center section to the exh. housing,next is the compressor needs a slight reclocking...
hmmm ill haveta look at the other 2 turbos deo(.48 comp side??)
the one im gonna use has a .48 exh side,,and a .42 comp side.... that turbo pictured above with the .48 comp housing is interesting
hopefully ill have it running tomorrow/wednesday..
making a custom adapter block on the mill for an oil line adapter so i can use the orig. line with that 2 bolt flange oil feed
lord verminard,yea the vw trapzoid thing is an oddball,,the merc turbo has a std t3 flange
um yea and im hooking up the wastegate this time,deo :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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We'll I've got the hx30 spooling as a single and I'm pretty sure I've got a major issue as It will only make 28-29 psi with 40 psi driving it and wastegate held closed.No boost leaks upto the head but I suspect that the headgasket may be the cause of the low boost???? :?
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Yes...yes... that .48 A/R compressor housing on that particular MB turbo is very interesting...we could benefit :) Did that come off a 300D? Its def. not off a mid 80's 300, as they have a different wastegate setup...I like the external setup on that one.
Sprinter maybe? Very interesting! Whats the hot side A/R on that unit? all the merc 300D turbos I have seen were .42cold and .48 hot. Ideally I don't think we benefit above .48 on the hot side for the TDI (its nice for "breath" through the higher RPM's on the TDI compared to the early turbos), but the .48, .50 compressor could generate some additional benefits...which is why that turbo is so interested! More info~
andy 2...don't you have head studs in your motor and your still blowing head gaskets? Thats insane! Maybe I should be careful with mine...the AWIC has opened up a whole new level to things... :)
Joe
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4" downpipe :shock: thats way overkill, I know of 2 turbo VR6's make well over 600whp with a 3" dp...............
And if they bolted on a 4" downpipe they'd likely gain 20WHP, lower egts by at least 100 degrees, turbo would spool sooner, oil temps would drop, you get the idea.
Just because people make power a certain way certainly does not mean its a good way of doing it.
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We'll I've got the hx30 spooling as a single and I'm pretty sure I've got a major issue as It will only make 28-29 psi with 40 psi driving it and wastegate held closed.No boost leaks upto the head but I suspect that the headgasket may be the cause of the low boost???? :?
This might now be such a bad thing!, remember that PSI is just pressure, if I remember you have a very ported head, different intake manifold etc, these things aid in lowering PSI while increasing flow. Whith my new intake manifolds and head porting I am seeing almost a 10 PSI LOSS in boost, yet the car is faster... yep I am getting more flow, less pressure, awesome.
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Yes...yes... that .48 A/R compressor housing on that particular MB turbo is very interesting...we could benefit Smile Did that come off a 300D? Its def. not off a mid 80's 300, as they have a different wastegate setup...I like the external setup on that one.
Sprinter maybe? Very interesting! Whats the hot side A/R on that unit? all the merc 300D turbos I have seen were .42cold and .48 hot. Ideally I don't think we benefit above .48 on the hot side for the TDI (its nice for "breath" through the higher RPM's on the TDI compared to the early turbos), but the .48, .50 compressor could generate some additional benefits...which is why that turbo is so interested! More info~
here you can see some more photos of this turbo:
http://www.zaprzal.info/t3merc/
I think it's a 250turbo mercedes and this same impellers were on MB sprinter
what do you think about some crazy hybrid: 0,48 exhaust housing and saab (gasoline) compressor impeller and housing?
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4" downpipe :shock: thats way overkill, I know of 2 turbo VR6's make well over 600whp with a 3" dp...............
And if they bolted on a 4" downpipe they'd likely gain 20WHP, lower egts by at least 100 degrees, turbo would spool sooner, oil temps would drop, you get the idea.
Just because people make power a certain way certainly does not mean its a good way of doing it.
Actually if you search the forced induction forum on the tex you'll find that peeps have already tested that, I believe it was done on a turbo R32 and they found no power gains from going 3" to 4"......
My point was that on a wee little 1.9 TDI that'll maybe rev to 5000rpm will never flow enough exhaust to take advantage of a 4" DP, I'm not making this up, if you plug the #'s in you'll see what I mean, I'm simply arguing the science of it.
Hilfolk why don't you try running a GT22??????
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No...they have the standard 4 bolt rectangular inlet flange (t3 flange) but DO use the same discharge flange as the older IDI TD turbos do...as mentioned and shown below...
Guess I needed to clarify that... the "trapezoid" flange is def. not standard and is unique to VW from what I have ever seen.
Joe
Gotcha- I thought as much but maybe you knew something I didnt. ;) So what did that MB turbo come from?
Brendan
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Yes...yes... that .48 A/R compressor housing on that particular MB turbo is very interesting...we could benefit Smile Did that come off a 300D? Its def. not off a mid 80's 300, as they have a different wastegate setup...I like the external setup on that one.
Sprinter maybe? Very interesting! Whats the hot side A/R on that unit? all the merc 300D turbos I have seen were .42cold and .48 hot. Ideally I don't think we benefit above .48 on the hot side for the TDI (its nice for "breath" through the higher RPM's on the TDI compared to the early turbos), but the .48, .50 compressor could generate some additional benefits...which is why that turbo is so interested! More info~
here you can see some more photos of this turbo:
http://www.zaprzal.info/t3merc/
I think it's a 250turbo mercedes and this same impellers were on MB sprinter
what do you think about some crazy hybrid: 0,48 exhaust housing and saab (gasoline) compressor impeller and housing?
I wouldn't mind trying that particular turbo out at all. I can't figure out what the size of the hot side is...but, it doesn't look to be too large from what I can see...and the .48 compressor side would def. be nice for efficiency.
Hmm...can't remember the saab turbos specs... were they a .63 hot side? and a .42 50trim cold side. I've seen some "upgraded" 900 turbos...but i think most stockers had our .42 compressor already with the much more gasser friendly .63 hot side...
Joe
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Actually if you search the forced induction forum on the tex you'll find that peeps have already tested that, I believe it was done on a turbo R32 and they found no power gains from going 3" to 4"......
My point was that on a wee little 1.9 TDI that'll maybe rev to 5000rpm will never flow enough exhaust to take advantage of a 4" DP, I'm not making this up, if you plug the #'s in you'll see what I mean, I'm simply arguing the science of it.
Hilfolk why don't you try running a GT22??????
Haha vortex :roll:
The reason they didn't see anymore power is because their turbo was too small, plain and simple. If the turbo is so small that there was no difference between a 3" and a 4" downpipe than it proves the turbo is the choke point, the turbine can only expel so much gas, true. But it can create all sorts of pressure and choke the engine to death. If the turbine outlet is only 2" than a 3" downpipe will likely be good enough, if its a 2.5-3" outlet than you will undoubtedly see gains from a 4" downpipe.
A 1.9 will need a 4" downpipe when its running a large turbo thats needs to spool up as soon as possible or if the goal is to keep all temperatures and pressures as low as possible. If you want to argue the science, than do that, theres no science in that r32 test, or they would have measured the drive pressure difference's, egts, oil temps, etc
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i could probably have it runnin with the merc turbo tomorrow
i gotta rig up some compressor plumbing though
still have to:
install lower timing cover,pulleys/belt,and splash shield
cut exhaust downpipe (holset)flange off the 3 inch to reuse on the merc flange
air filter
boost control lines,boost guage/lda line hookup
ill probably have it roadworthy by thurs,hopefully no later than friday
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Hmm...can't remember the saab turbos specs... were they a .63 hot side? and a .42 50trim cold side. I've seen some "upgraded" 900 turbos...but i think most stockers had our .42 compressor already with the much more gasser friendly .63 hot side...Joe
I compared it to saab cold side and saab was bigger, but I don't know what a/r, trim
i could probably have it runnin with the merc turbo tomorrow
this one with 0,42 compressor? please tell us how does it work 8)
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The merc 300D one is the one I use on my application at the moment. It is nice...you do get a bit more lag on the low end, but when it wakes up it goes quite nicely. I'm still awaiting my R520's and a finished intercooler setup here before I really play but I had it sustained at 30psi/35psi without any issues and the power was AWESOME in 3, 4 and 5!. I wish I had a tach in at the moment (working on that...harder adapting the early dash style gasser tach to work...) to tell you exactly where spooling starts... and R520's to really give you an idea of full power. Though, with the 216's and the pump configuration....it really flies at the moment, etc...so, it'll be interested to see what is said here
The 300D unit I'm using is the 50 trim .42A/R cold .48 A/R hot...
Joe
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The merc 300D one is the one I use on my application at the moment. It is nice...you do get a bit more lag on the low end, but when it wakes up it goes quite nicely. I'm still awaiting my R520's and a finished intercooler setup here before I really play but I had it sustained at 30psi/35psi without any issues and the power was AWESOME in 3, 4 and 5!.
The 300D unit I'm using is the 50 trim .42A/R cold .48 A/R hot...
Joe
If you compare max power with wastegated MB turbo vs gt2256vnt from MB 2,7cdi or vs gt2052vnt from audi 2,5tdi v6 - which one will be stronger? I mean max power at higher rpms, not spool up... Anybody know?
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The merc 300D one is the one I use on my application at the moment. It is nice...you do get a bit more lag on the low end, but when it wakes up it goes quite nicely. I'm still awaiting my R520's and a finished intercooler setup here before I really play but I had it sustained at 30psi/35psi without any issues and the power was AWESOME in 3, 4 and 5!. I wish I had a tach in at the moment (working on that...harder adapting the early dash style gasser tach to work...) to tell you exactly where spooling starts... and R520's to really give you an idea of full power. Though, with the 216's and the pump configuration....it really flies at the moment, etc...so, it'll be interested to see what is said here
The 300D unit I'm using is the 50 trim .42A/R cold .48 A/R hot...
Joe
good to hear joe.....im hopin it works ok,,or better than the old garrett at least
im hopin for lower egt's also
yea im not exactlysure which turbo i got,,all i know is its a merc. unit
with a .42 cold side/.48 hot side
the intake "hole" is bigger than the old idi td turbo(which is also a .42 cold side),by probably .5 inch
so thats sayin to me,"more air",hopefully
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got it running tonight+went for a test,i mean cruise :lol:
the merc turbo is 100x better than the old garrett,why didnt you guys tell me before?? :evil:
it does start givin boost very low also,,like around 2000 it starts to wake up(iwas seein 5 psi@ part throttle)
and id say by 25-2600 it starts comin on real good
then it pulls very strong right up to redline(i went only to 4300 or so)
i got it )boost control)adjusted to about 22-23 psi right now+ im seein egts of around approx.1300 f,way better than before
its hard to read the guages real good,because when you look back@ the road,you are flyin and its scary
thank god the gtech has a shiftlight ,i had it set for around 4100,and i was seein it quite frequently :twisted:
it breathes up top sooo0ooo much better
i didnt record any runs,but it feels at least close to as fast as it was with the old idi turbo and thats only in the low 20's for boost
this turbo seems ok so far,but ill keep ya posted because ive only been drivin it for about 45 mins or so :P
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Told ya :) its those "little" changes that make things so much more fun. I think the .48 hot side A/R for heavily modified mTDI setups...or maybe even some wastegate setup ECU driven TDI's is the ticket as far as breathability, flow and efficiency where you want to have it...at very little of a sacrifice. I think the cold side A/R could be enlarged a bit but still...works very nicely I'd like a to see a .48/.50 A/R on the cold side... and leave the .48 hot side A/R alone as it seems to be a good mix and compromise...
Less fuel though...and it wouldn't be much fun. I've had mine pulling close to 35psi without any issues...and thats on .216's. Its kind of funny to watch it actually. If I lay on it, the boost catches up to the smoke/fuel very quickly...lays quite a nice trail of smoke, but the turbo beats out the fuel eventually and I end up almost smoke free hauling a$$. Can't wait for the R520's to see what they will do.
I'm quite impressed with the mercedes unit and probably will use it for a while. I'd like to find another good core and rebuild it...maybe make that cold side addition to it...so if anyone has another around, I'd be interested in it for rebuilding it. The one I have was used...could probably use a rebuild but I haven't had any issues.
Glad to hear it worked out for you. Its not as efficient as the GT series turbos...or the newer designs...but it is an improvement over the IDI TD ones that start loosing their breath...
Joe
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Actually if you search the forced induction forum on the tex you'll find that peeps have already tested that, I believe it was done on a turbo R32 and they found no power gains from going 3" to 4"......
My point was that on a wee little 1.9 TDI that'll maybe rev to 5000rpm will never flow enough exhaust to take advantage of a 4" DP, I'm not making this up, if you plug the #'s in you'll see what I mean, I'm simply arguing the science of it.
Hilfolk why don't you try running a GT22??????
Haha vortex :roll:
The reason they didn't see anymore power is because their turbo was too small, plain and simple. If the turbo is so small that there was no difference between a 3" and a 4" downpipe than it proves the turbo is the choke point, the turbine can only expel so much gas, true. But it can create all sorts of pressure and choke the engine to death. If the turbine outlet is only 2" than a 3" downpipe will likely be good enough, if its a 2.5-3" outlet than you will undoubtedly see gains from a 4" downpipe.
A 1.9 will need a 4" downpipe when its running a large turbo thats needs to spool up as soon as possible or if the goal is to keep all temperatures and pressures as low as possible. If you want to argue the science, than do that, theres no science in that r32 test, or they would have measured the drive pressure difference's, egts, oil temps, etc
Ok I"ll deal with a scenario I actually have facts on, one of our locals has a turbo VR running a gt35R(with a 1.06 turbine AR), this turbo will flow more on the turbine side, than any turbo you plan on putting on a 1.9tdi. Now this car has a 3" downpipe, and when they were doing the tunning there was much debate to whether the 3" downpipe was enough, so they tapped the down pipe and hooked up a pressure gauge, and ran the car on the dyno, and guess what??? they saw absolutely no pressure in the downpipe. The car made 675 to the wheels @20psi.
Facts are facts, if your running a .48-.52 turbine AR on a 1.9tdi, the turbines gonna be the greatest restriction when it comes to a DP over 2.5". There used to be a website that listed the flow capabilities of specific diametre piping, can't seem to located it anymore, anyways you see my point.
PS please don't take this as me trying to flame you, its simply a constructive argument. :D
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no flaming taken.....
but the 3 inch dp sounds good all by itself,no extra pipe or muffler needed
i think ill drive it to waterfest just like that
:twisted:
just ordered 2 silicone hoses for the turbo compressor pipe
1 90 deg. 2 inch id,,and a transition hose
with 4 clamps it was 100$ :shock:
gotta pay to play
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Theres no way there was zero psi in a 3" downpipe on a 1.06 AR turbine pushing 20 psi boost, their gauge is broken, likely melted it from not running enough copper between the downpipe and the boost gauge. I measured 1-2 psi on a 1.6td with a stock turbo pushing 25 psi with a 3" downpipe, that car wasn't pushing over 150hp by any means.
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So Blake how are you liking the merc turbo? Pretty sure I tried tellin you about that one a while back, I've been using them for a couple years and they can't be beat for a budget turbo upgrade. :P
How does it pull with the higher boost pressures compare to the holset?
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i'll let him chime in ... i haven't rideen itn it .. but he says its really nice like thr holset but with bottom end... im not sure i believe it ha i have to get a ride the holset frightened me.. faster then my old hy35 with the 9 cm..
later deo
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Sweet! Deo you workin on any tdi projects?
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yeah my b4 passat wagon.. basically redoing a lot of it with glx stuffand brakes black leather etcetc..its a long pain in the ass project..getting mopre expensive then not..ha.. and doing timing belts for people etc..you?
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Naw no personal projects, no time for that, building some more rally stuff. Building some cummins tubular exhaust manifolds for the baja 1000 though, pretty neat stuff there, the trucks are getting 8 ft of air during the race so they have to be bullet proof :shock:
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damn.. ha.. i still have to do my dumping western flat bed on my dodge and do the southbend clutch and the nv4500, and a twin stick and doubler, and p7100 conversion,and and and.. haha never ending.. then the fox wagon convert into fox pickup with quantum syncro driveline ..hehe
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The Fox "Synchro" sounds like fun!
I actually hit the jackpot this weekend... a FREE 1z TDI longblock that I had been trying to get for the last year almost up from GA from someone that I have made friends with. My brother from FL was on the way up for our wedding here later in the month and was able to stop and pick it up. Not a bad deal at all for FREE!!!
It'll be the motor for the B3...needs rebuilt, so this winter has quite the lineup! 02a CTN conversion for the mTDI MK1, paint and bodywork for the same car...and building this motor along side for swap into the car next spring!
Aren't projects fun?
Glad to hear the mercedes turbo is working out well for you. Dave, I don't remember you mentioning having used any merc turbos on a mTDI, TDI or the IDI's in the last few years. I remember you asking me about it when I mentioned putting it on the mTDI in the original build thread...was interested in what you were running them on.
Its a nice unit...and is quite the "budget" turbo. One may find its way onto the b3 mTDI setup...but I don't know...may go with the standard t3 IDI unit since I'm going for power/reliability and MPG on that particular build...
Joe
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Joe, haven't ever tried the merc turbo on a mech tdi I don't think, but tons of IDI's! When I was still working for MB a few years back I grabbed a bunch of them. Mostly I've put them on high revving 1.6's. Speaking of the devil actually I am uninstalling a merc turbo I put on a vanagon a couple years ago now in favor of a stock t3 (on a 1.9 IDI) for the smaller turbine side so his spool up is a bit better for hill starting :)
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Sounds good :)
What are you doing with the one your removing...i've been trying to source a good used unit, or a core to rebuild for the other project...
(not as to get this thread off topic) :)
Joe
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grrr.......... :cry:
i ordered some silicone hoses from hose techniques for the turbo plumbing
since i ordered them last night,sunday that is (the place is in ca)
and they "should " ship today (monday)
i figured that its normally 5 days to recieve them,so i sent them ups ground
i could have shipped them 3 day express for 20$$
but being the cheap bastardo that i am, i saved 8 dollars letting them go ground
i just got a shipping confirmation from them,and ill recieve them JULY 23!!!!
grrrrr...kinda like,not in time for waterfest :cry: :cry: :cry:
ill haveta run the rad hose ugly contraption i got rigged up
oh well hey look at me,i saved 8 dollars
i gotta stop bein cheap ,it keeps biting me in the heiny :roll: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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So Blake how are you liking the merc turbo? Pretty sure I tried tellin you about that one a while back, I've been using them for a couple years and they can't be beat for a budget turbo upgrade. :P
How does it pull with the higher boost pressures compare to the holset?
it seems pretty good,,,part throttle at 2000 i still get like 5 psi....and it pours on strong by the mid 2's(2500 or so,not much "worse" than "stock")
but i increased my line size to my water injection,and now it injects too much water
i used to hold it on in between shifts,and if i do that now,or inject too early,it puts out the flame+sputters,,so i gotta try a restrictor.....if i pulse it quickly,,it goes like a beastie(thumbup,sorta) :wink:
the merc turbo feels about the same,at 22ish psi,as the old garrett did at closed wastegate(40+psi),,and the egt is around 1300ish or so at the most,i think(that ive seen so far)
its hard to read the guages,if you take your eye off the road to read them for a second,you get in trouble,cause you are flyin
damn.. ha.. i still have to do my dumping western flat bed on my dodge and do the southbend clutch and the nv4500, and a twin stick and doubler, and p7100 conversion,and and and.. haha never ending.. then the fox wagon convert into fox pickup with quantum syncro driveline ..hehe
yea dude the wagon is gonna be bad to the bone 4 sure,im diggin that idea
ewwwwww,i hit some road kill on the way home from yer place tonite,,and the guts wrapped all around my rubber fuel lines(you know that rigged cis pump setup)
i knew i smelled somethin funny as i pulled it in the hangar(thats when i looked+saw it ,i almost youked)
i tried sprayin it off with a hose,no luck,,so i drove around in the 4 ft high weeds in that lot next to my dads plot,,suprisingly it took some backing up too to get the tangled intestines off the fuel lines
i then washed it off with a hose,,i was almost puking,it stunk sooooo bad
figures man,,,,we gotta run hard lines to replace those hoses this week too
oh it was so nasty
i hope no one reads this during breakfast :roll:
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ha .. just use a rubber glove.. haha.. you got to help dress a deer with me and you'll get over smelly nasty things and smells ha.. or come to work when i inspect some of the transfer stations in the summer heat ha..or the RENDERING trucks..hehehe carcasses and meat scraps used to make perfume and soap..they are pretty raunchy....
now back to the car stuff. .fdo any of my silcone hoses i lent you fit ? use them i imagine no otherwise you'd be doing that.. lket me know..oh and snag those drums ..later
Deo
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dead things dont bother me too much,its 3 or 4 day old dead things that get me.....
as far as smelly things,ill haveta take you to a wastewater treatment plant to service a generator
as soon as you pull in the place you think:" man who crapped their pants??"
oh it was the whole town
(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3682/flamingfart5wq.gif)
and i wont go into the condoms in the water intakes,lol
:roll:
ill probably swing by tomorrow to swipe the drums from the ol' pickup
heres a pic of the old truck yall
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5131/hpim0433pd8.jpg)
(http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9829/205tyroneabbb11gs2.jpg)
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7703/uglyhammervk5.gif)
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got the brakes straightened out,,they work great!!
big rear drums with manual brakes,,nice....
restricted the water injection down some by soldering a few holes shut in the "injector"....now its a runner
of course ,now somethin else had to act up :cry:
yea,the stupid battery light is flickering at me
hey deo..got any 55 or 65 amp alternators layin around that i can steal some brushes from???
i bet thats whats wrong with it,and i bet i cant get them locally tomorrow
actually i just thought of it
maybe i can de-solder a set from my old jetta (65) alternator,and resolder them to my 55 amp holder,and i think i got another 65 amp,or 90 amp layin around i could swipe them from ,i think i even got an extra brush holder/reg assy from a 65 amp i could steal them from (i dont wanna adapt somethin in like another 65,or 90 ,i dont have time)
oh i was also thinkin..... maybe those idiots could dyno my car if i bring my
diesel timing pulse adapter
:?:
finishing the fuel lines/pump/regulator assy tomorrow to aircraft/an fittings+hard line :wink:
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f those 55 ans65 put 90 in it ..i have 90 in may basement..you can havbe it..plus i have afew others..we'll get it running good..
Later
deo
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I was car 582.....
of course thanks to a shot gearbox,i did miss a gear(2nd) on a few runs
during eliminations,i ran a 14.505 on a 14.50 dial in
then next run i broke out on a 14.37(best run though),and was eliminated
the 16 second run was where i fed too much water injection to it off the line+it died out bad like 20 feet outta the hole,thats how you run a 16 second run@ 98 mph
i was putting a killing on that tree with great r.t.'s(for the most part)
im impressed with the trap speeds ,,99.22 best mph....soo close to the magic 100 mph mark!!!
(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9067/wfest13slipssj6.jpg)
(http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/7671/wfest13slips2mh7.jpg)
(http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/2162/wfest13slips3eb5.jpg)
its got such a top end rush,,it wants to keep pulling past 4500,and comes on strong as low as 2400,although at part throttle ive seen good boost as low as 2000 rpms
VICTORY WAS BITTERSWEET THOUGH....
on the ride home,im idling thru a tollbooth in durtyjursy,and it quit
so i rolled to the side+popped the hood
guess what?? it whipped the timing belt
the tensioner stud backed out of the head+got all stripped out and crap
but being the hillfolk i am,i figured id see if i had bent valves(which i had a feeling i did
so with sticks+rocks(i had tools,sorta)
i timed it good enough to run it
it ran,i was amazed
but sounded like a old subaru,,
so its parked for a few months till i can accumulate $$$ to redo the cyl head,or get a new one
i gotta check out the pistons+see if i need to replace them,and possibly the rod bearings too :oops:
so im down,but not out yet
i know this bad boy has at least a few more mph in it
heck,my struts are so shot+the front end lifts so bad+back end squats off the line
just changing them would help et's and mph too
99mph "should" be 13 second territory
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nm um haha. my jetta was like that i lost alot of power through the suspension. the front end on my jetta would really pick up once that turbo got going
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lol...sounds familar here too... have the bilsteins in the front on the mTDI in my case...just haven't gotten my rears setup yet...normally, bilstein sports all around on GC coilovers/Eibach ERS springs...
Its funny, 15x7's, and the front of the car REALLY stays planted...you can really tell how the difference in ET's would be.
However...take off in the car...since the rears are on yet... BOINK, plants the rear end and will actually rub in the 'wells. :(
Sorry to hear about the motor, I'm sure it'll be back on the road here soon!
Joe
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Hey man, sorry to hear about the engine troubles. At least you were able to limp home! Did rabbit tree race, too?
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man I talked to ya on the phone since.. i didn't hear about the t belt till now?.. mommn whats up wit that?.. ha. .I think you have to go tueb abnd carbon fiber.. go real light get soem lexan windows.. gu tth edoors out toss the rear beam etc it light say 1200 lbs ..soem kinny rear tires and some slicks for the front..etcetc..Tons of things to mess with to get low times outta it.. oh i just finishe dth e220v and th eair compressor install so the garage is set now. .need to rearange it and clean it but the tig should be buzzing soon hehe..
Later
Deo
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Hey there this is Frank the guy with the DZSL SLC (Corrado TDI) that was great run you had against me where you nailed your dial in. I plan to play with mysetup and see if I can squeeze a few more tenths out of her and get a 14.9
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dude,your setup is so sweet
wish i had my digital camera so i had some pics to post
guys...this is a very very nice car,and tdi install
heres some pics i snapped tonite
lol,i gotta put green city lights in her jetta,and ill have a traffic light
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7307/hpim0832jk9.jpg) :lol:
this is the merc turbo install... to add insult to injury,,my silicone hoses arrived yesterday
looks good,even though you cant see the bent valves
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8864/hpim0833kl6.jpg)
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2259/hpim0834bn2.jpg)
(http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/1743/hpim0835ow4.jpg)
(http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9010/hpim0836na4.jpg)
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3782/hpim0837mp1.jpg)
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7554/hpim0840le1.jpg)
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man I talked to ya on the phone since.. i didn't hear about the t belt till now?.. mommn whats up wit that?.. ha. .I think you have to go tueb abnd carbon fiber.. go real light get soem lexan windows.. gu tth edoors out toss the rear beam etc it light say 1200 lbs ..soem kinny rear tires and some slicks for the front..etcetc..Tons of things to mess with to get low times outta it.. oh i just finishe dth e220v and th eair compressor install so the garage is set now. .need to rearange it and clean it but the tig should be buzzing soon hehe..
Later
Deo
andreas+dad say to build a small rail with a tdi
like 6-700 pounds they think itll go 10's,, im sayin 12's
that happened on the way home,deo
yea man,that sucked
i tried to get the timing right on the side of the road. but the pumpwas off a tooth....then the tow truck showed up.....
he towed me to a parking lot,and we got it right
got it goin around 9:45 that night,and was home around 11:30
i didnt take it over 55 the whole way(like 22-2400 rpms)
if my head is scrap,i may need to buy a head from you....
ill buy new guides+valves,and try to find a good head rebuilder locally(maybe aldo's in highland)
if not,ill send it out ,cause somethin like that its sorta like $$ is no object as long as its done right
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dude you can just slap valve in it..they are only like7 bucks or so ecah.. that a tbelt/ headgasket set is cheap.. i did valve on my pickup tdi m foro the new owner.. it did the same thing.. Its been running fine since..the tendsioner loosened up.. red loctite solved that.. I just took valves from another tdi head ( maybe my other early one???).. and all was good.. you couldn't even see any marks on the pistons.. infact those valves i changed were for prevention in case it was messed up.. i have em here if you wanna check em on a stand with adial indicator for run out...
Man I would have come down and towed you back with the trailer .. any time any where.. heck we towed Brains Band and their Van from Virgina home once ha..
as for a TDI rail ..if you could get teh weight to 600-700 lbs yeah youd be really fast!.. you'd be easylly in the low 11s no problem.. no a rail engine would not be a ve pump thats frop sure.. you'd be doing the 4cly p ump on that sucker with emd injectors, one pice fire rings and staged turbos.. with a auto trans....it could be done.. no rad or very small one custom cam etc etc even home built its $ though .. lightening you car and getting it more extreme is nice.. in fact a drag set up would be nice you don't auto cross any more etc..set up a fibergalss noise.. 6 point cage / structure and gut the rest.. no beam yous a light trailing arm with a rv leveling airbag set up and some heim joints ..kinny drag tires..no glass..5 or 4 gallon front mount fuel cell etc if a fiberglass / carbon fiber was used you could get lighter..you'd need to spend soem $ to get mor eengine hp.. fire ring fire ring fire ring.. CAM, BIGGER PUMP, Bigger injectors, Staged Turbo etc notch the pistons etc etc
any how just some ideas..
I have to spilt,
Later
Deo
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Nice times man :D Crappy to hear about the belt coming loose, you should put that puppy on the dyno once you get it running again.Good luck
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"frank06" seems to be a reliable source for excellent rebuilt heads on tdiclub.com, prices are good too. He could do a port for you :D
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ill haveta maybe try that too,ill find out how much one is
of course ill have to get new valve seals with the new head and totally disassemble it,since it needs to be port/gasket matched+cleaned up a little in the ports
ive been driving it around a little still,and surprisingly it still has lotsa power
i was using it in the backyard to drag out cut down trees like 20 feet long
i just wrap a chain around the tree+hook it to my hitch
ill have to get a video clip+call it "my john deere tractor,let me show you it" :lol: :lol:
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Torque!
:shock:
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diesels kick ass
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Hey there this is Frank the guy with the DZSL SLC (Corrado TDI) that was great run you had against me where you nailed your dial in. I plan to play with mysetup and see if I can squeeze a few more tenths out of her and get a 14.9
dude go on vortex,and read the waterfest report,,they loved ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
heres my plan for the ultime timing belt fix:
ditch the mk1 motor mount/pump bracket
and use the ahu bracket with the auto tensioner,and extra tensioner wheel that mounts between the pump+cam gear
then use a "gas engine mk1 engine mount"
all i gotta do is press out my HD mount from my diesel bracket+put it in the extra gas engine mount i found layin in a pile of parts
funny fact: the gas mount i found has a date code painted on it ,and its on my birthday,but 1983
im hopin it brings me more luck
im thinkin that the ahu tensioner setup will handle the revs better
wether i rebuild my head or not,im not sure,but the tensioner stud threads are easily fixed by a heli-coil if i do use it.....
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Take a look at a 1.6TD/1.9TD camshaft while you are at it if yours is stock TDI stuff...it might shock you to see the difference!
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heres my plan for the ultime timing belt fix:
ditch the mk1 motor mount/pump bracket
and use the ahu bracket with the auto tensioner,and extra tensioner wheel that mounts between the pump+cam gear
then use a "gas engine mk1 engine mount"
all i gotta do is press out my HD mount from my diesel bracket+put it in the extra gas engine mount i found layin in a pile of parts
funny fact: the gas mount i found has a date code painted on it ,and its on my birthday,but 1983
im hopin it brings me more luck
im thinkin that the ahu tensioner setup will handle the revs better
wether i rebuild my head or not,im not sure,but the tensioner stud threads are easily fixed by a heli-coil if i do use it.....
Sounds familar...however, you may run into a few problems.
The MK1 gas motor mount will require you to use a "gas" accessory bracket mounting as well. If you look at the gas motor mount it is not totally flat (like the very long mk1 style mount w/ ip mount as well) is. It has a "rise" where it would attach to the front of the block. You'll either have to use the gasser accessory mount that has the extra "ear" that attaches to the bracket/wraps around the front of the block or you can make your own spacer to take up the room to account for the rise in the gasser mount. If you check my thread, I believe I have pictures up of what I am talking about here.
Easier fix...use the MK1 diesel mount but cut off the injection pump mounting portion. Again, there are pics in my thread about how I did it, etc. but its pretty self explantory. Then you can use the MK1 mount, the AHU/1z style pump bracket as well as your v belt setup if you want. I've got all the AHU/1z timing bits on my motor, with the chopped MK1 diesel mount but am using serpentine instead.
Will save a bit of time and extra effort in the mount pressing, etc... but hey...to each is own!
The write up on the 'rado on the Vortex was cool! Would have been neat for them to do a bit more in detail! Heard there weren't that many MK1's there though :(
Joe
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Take a look at a 1.6TD/1.9TD camshaft while you are at it if yours is stock TDI stuff...it might shock you to see the difference!
darn.............
ive got a 1.6td cam laying around ,but its solid lifter :cry:
yea joe, i realized after i typed that all up and then went and looked at my gasser mount that it may be easier to do what you explained above
:wink:
ive still been limping it around town here+there,keepin it local
some ricer wanted to mess with me,and i was a little nervous about it
but he got smoked(with soot,and acceleration)
but this thing still has real good power,surprisingly
still feels faster than my old 1.6td for sure
yea i know its not the greatest thing to do(drive it),hopefully in the next month ill tear into it and assess the situation and see what ill need to do to fix it
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tear into it and fix it, it's cheap and easy plus you have a work vehicle and another car to drive and two shops..just do it..hehehe
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i found valves at rapid parts int/exh
like 17-19 each..... better than the crooks at impex who wanted like 30each!!!!!.ill just get them all for the int+exh
but they sell the junk reintz headgaskets
ill get another at the dealer
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what the matter with the reitnz gaskets?.. As long as its a metal one it should be good to go.. No? Have you heard bad things about the reintz?
later
Deo
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I've never heard a problem with the Victor Reinz gaskets either or experienced one myself. Ran them on the old IDI TD and of course the metals ones here on the TDI...no issues with them and its been seeing some nicely sustained 30psi at times.
Joe
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I think thats all I've ever used for a vw besides one factory vw gasket a while back.. victor reintz is waht you get most of th etime.. what is teh better one your talking about blake?
Thanks
deo
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the 1st gasket i had in there after i rebuilt it was a elring
i wish i coulda gotten another,i forgot where i got that one
i swear we had issues with them (reintz)on the older idi engines
we saw quality issues with them on some of the bigger engines when i was in ohio
i figured ,why skimp on somethin like that?
id just avoid any fears by going oem
and besides it wasnt too much more $$
i actually got it @ hudson valley vw for like 61 bucks
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well...the old reintz gaskets for the IDI's were fiber gaskets...
All the TDI ones are metal, just like the "upgrade" that many IDI's are using now, which is the metal AAZ gasket. Can't see as if I've had any problems!
Joe
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lets go totally off topic for a minute,and pay tribute to team hillfolk
dig it man...
.this is therabbittree,give him a 'round of applause
ol'school waterfest pics i found the other day
:wink:
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7661/deo3fn8.jpg)
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5663/deo2mc0.jpg)
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2802/deo1re4.jpg)
remember this Deo???gotta build another one,the apes will be the hard part to find
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/117/lolbykeer7.jpg)
kickin myself ,,i so shoulda kept this car it was the nicest ive ever seen i think
(http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/921/redrabbitzn1.jpg)
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Nice!
I still dig seeing the old no-hood/twin-turbo rabbit pics that I have stashed away somewhere. :)
Beers,
Matt
\x/ hillfolk!
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Nice!
I still dig seeing the old no-hood/twin-turbo rabbit pics that I have stashed away somewhere. :)
Beers,
Matt
\x/ hillfolk!
bust them out and scan them man :wink:
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bust them out and scan them man :wink:
Ask and ye shall receive... 8)
http://picasaweb.google.com/CumminsTurboDiesel/TDIGoodies
Beers,
Matt
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Now that brings back memories from the "old board" and then some!
Joe
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oh very nice
i remember that like it was yesterday