VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: AadmanZ on June 26, 2007, 01:49:59 pm
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Hallo all, new here, have a Caddy with an AAZ engine. great car, great engine so far..
And yes, I too have a pulley that came undone.. Being a total VW noob I had no idea that I should've checked this..
What to do now? (very basic skills, decent tools, but no VW/car specific)
A. check crank end, put on new pulley bolt, time everything correctly and try to start it, what's broken is already broken.
B. Take the head off, check valves and pistons for damage, (if needed, get a new head) check crank end for damage, new pulley, new bolt, new belt, get an expert in to time everything and run it.
C. Screw it, engine is done for, valves are surely bent/broken, crank end is cracked, buy a new engine and swap it.
Will check crank end later this week anyway, have not had time to do that just yet.
My main question is, how to assess the extent of the damage? and minimize the cost of the operation?
Suggestions are appreciated..
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where did it break? if it broke while idling, then you probably don't have severe damage. if it broke while on the highway, the motor will have extensive damage.
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Pop the valve cover off and have a look for anything out of the ordinary, like metal shavings, messed up lifters etc
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where did it break? if it broke while idling, then you probably don't have severe damage. if it broke while on the highway, the motor will have extensive damage.
It broke while starting. I heard a slight rattle while driving, didn't trust it, parked the car, started it up two days later, it coughed twice and then just turned over on the starter motor.
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Pop the valve cover off and have a look for anything out of the ordinary, like metal shavings, messed up lifters etc
No metal shavings, nothing out of the ordinary as far as I can see. Can't see any lifters (must be hydraulic then?)
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where did it break? if it broke while idling, then you probably don't have severe damage. if it broke while on the highway, the motor will have extensive damage.
It broke while starting. I heard a slight rattle while driving, didn't trust it, parked the car, started it up two days later, it coughed twice and then just turned over on the starter motor.
you might be lucky then... maybe just fix the crank pulley, and re-time it?
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You can count on at least several bent valves.
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You can count on at least several bent valves.
Figured as much, but do I need to take the head off to check this?
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I think that you are getting a bit ahead of yourself. Assuming that no valves are bent (I wish that for your sake but will amost guarantee that there are some that will be bent) and you are going to set the crankshaft, camshaft and pump in correct relation to each other to get the timing belt in place, then doing a compression check afterwards would tell you if you have leaking valves (hence damaged).
If you have the time why not pull the head, repair valves, replace head gasket (a normal maintenance item) then spend the time to get the crank aligned to the camshaft and pump with a new timing belt and crank sprocket? It would be a better use of your efforts.
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I think that you are getting a bit ahead of yourself. Assuming that no valves are bent (I wish that for your sake but will amost guarantee that there are some that will be bent) and you are going to set the crankshaft, camshaft and pump in correct relation to each other to get the timing belt in place, then doing a compression check afterwards would tell you if you have leaking valves (hence damaged).
If you have the time why not pull the head, repair valves, replace head gasket (a normal maintenance item) then spend the time to get the crank aligned to the camshaft and pump with a new timing belt and crank sprocket? It would be a better use of your efforts.
I guess you are right, I will check the crank to see if there is any damage there, if not, just take the head off for inspection.
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burn your money was selling a motor that jumped time probably because of crank pulley. he re-timed it and it worked. i think he probably used a new crank bolt though...
who knows, it may be your lucky day!!! :)
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burn your money was selling a motor that jumped time probably because of crank pulley. he re-timed it and it worked. i think he probably used a new crank bolt though...
who knows, it may be your lucky day!!! :)
Sure didn't. The crank felt perfectly solid. I'm parting that engine out instead though. Once I retimed it it ran just fine. If you suspect any problems with the crank though have it completely inspected
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burn your money was selling a motor that jumped time probably because of crank pulley. he re-timed it and it worked. i think he probably used a new crank bolt though...
who knows, it may be your lucky day!!! :)
Sure didn't. The crank felt perfectly solid. I'm parting that engine out instead though. Once I retimed it it ran just fine. If you suspect any problems with the crank though have it completely inspected
Will check this evening.. Anyone have a Timing how to? Will have to order a Bentley manual, but haven't gotten round to it.
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Read this stuff over http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3587
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where did it break? if it broke while idling, then you probably don't have severe damage. if it broke while on the highway, the motor will have extensive damage.
It broke while starting. I heard a slight rattle while driving, didn't trust it, parked the car, started it up two days later, it coughed twice and then just turned over on the starter motor.
you might be lucky then... maybe just fix the crank pulley, and re-time it?
Are you sure that anything is damaged internally? Would you be able to drive with the symptoms of only a 'slight rattle' if timing was off and valves hitting or even stuck open due to being bent?
I feel very optimistic... makes a change :roll:
Sure it won't start now but that's another issue
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Are you sure that anything is damaged internally? Would you be able to drive with the symptoms of only a 'slight rattle' if timing was off and valves hitting or even stuck open due to being bent?
I feel very optimistic... makes a change :roll:
Sure it won't start now but that's another issue
No I don't, that was the main reason for this topic :)
I think the rattle was the pulley coming loose, then, when I started it up (after sitting for a few days) it wouldn't fire up properly, bucked and that's when it came loose.
Ok, well anyway, pics are in:
(http://lh6.google.com/adriaansinke/RoSu9V20DYI/AAAAAAAAAA8/XgkLZfR4XEE/s800/crank.jpg)
(http://lh6.google.com/adriaansinke/RoSu7V20DXI/AAAAAAAAAA0/-383o6p1afY/s800/pulley.jpg)
My first comment: what a sh!+ construction..
The big question: is this crank done for?
Taking the whole engine apart and welding the crank is not an option, the man hours involved would be much more than just swapping over a running engine. First quote (reliable breaker) was 500 euros> 720 CAD> 336 sterling.
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Re: M&M post previous: Am I missing something here? Or have aliens just landed.
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AZ, you are right! It is a pretty poor effort on the part of VW to turn out stuff like that. 500 euros is not a bad price for a guaranteed running engine supposing that it is in fair shape. But what if it is not and needs more work as well. Besides the crank nose on that one may be in worse condition. Most wreckers only give guarantee against total failure. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. I am no expert on the AAZ motor but from your pictures the crank nose looks okay. Maybe just a new sprocket, bolt, and some locktight will do the job. Top end parts like valves are cheap to replace. If you are there you may as well do it right.
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AZ, you are right! It is a pretty poor effort on the part of VW to turn out stuff like that. 500 euros is not a bad price for a guaranteed running engine supposing that it is in fair shape. But what if it is not and needs more work as well. Besides the crank nose on that one may be in worse condition. Most wreckers only give guarantee against total failure. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. I am no expert on the AAZ motor but from your pictures the crank nose looks okay. Maybe just a new sprocket, bolt, and some locktight will do the job. Top end parts like valves are cheap to replace. If you are there you may as well do it right.
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Yeah, I know, let's wait for some more comments... Cuz it does look like quite a bit of it is worn off, and fixing the head without properly fixing the (known) weakest part of the engine seems a bit stupid.
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I'm also not an expert on AAZs but looking at the crank I think you need to get it fixed.
You might be able to find someone that can machine the crank to fit the TDI crank pulley with everything installed the way it is now, you'd need to remove the cam though
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Well, just discussed it with my local (bike) mechanic.. engines are engines right? (This is a guy I know and trust, he would be my first choice when doing any machining/welding on anything.)
Weld a (new) pulley (straight) onto the crank..
Time everything
Crank it over, see if it fires up..
(So, basically, yes I do hope the valve fixin' fairies have been doing their thing in my engine bay 8))
If it does, great.. if it sounds rough, there might still be a bent valve, but that can then be replaced.
If it doesn't fire up, we can still pull the head off for inspection.. If all the valves are stuffed, I can always get another engine...
Saw some really nice completely overhauled ones on Ebay.. :) Lots of €€€ but very Naissss, me like..
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I am not sure what sort of a mechanic would recommend a fix like that! The heat will destroy the seal immediately behind the sprocket (major oil leak will follow) as well as probably destroy the bearing behind the seal. Then you really do have a mess on your hands. There is no easy way to fix things right. Don't let some knob who thinks he is a mechanic try a stunt like that.
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I am not sure what sort of a mechanic would recommend a fix like that! The heat will destroy the seal immediately behind the sprocket (major oil leak will follow) as well as probably destroy the bearing behind the seal. Then you really do have a mess on your hands. There is no easy way to fix things right. Don't let some knob who thinks he is a mechanic try a stunt like that.
Never mind that, the guy knows his business, he hasn't seen the setup though. His theory is that the crank should soak up a lot of the heat. which sort of makes sense.
I know there is no such thing as a cheap fix, but it p!$$es :evil: me off that a few mil of material (and not a broken conrod or something that dramatic) should mean damage this dramatic.
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"His theory is that the crank should soak up a lot of the heat. which sort of makes sense."
WTF ??????
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Never mind, I don't even think you can get in there without disassembling most of the engine anyway..
Is there anyone who knows his stuff and can say whether or not this can still work with a new pulley?
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Judging by the pictures. I would say that the keyway looks serviceable. You may only have to dress off the raised edge on the end of the keyway with a file. Do not file the tapered portion. Then try a new sprocket with a new bolt. If the fit has no slop then remove and apply Locktight sleeve retainer as per instructions. Then assemble it to time it and see if your valves are still intact.
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Keyway is indeed serviceable, new pulley fits like a glove.
Put everything back together, retimed it, fired it up, it kept running on three cylinders, but with quite some mechanical noise. Removed the head and found that most valves had hit pistons (as they would) and that there were quite a number of cracks in the head itself. Pictures will follow, but head will most likely have to be rebuilt/replaced.
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I am surprised that you were able to get it started. There must be a couple of good sets of valves. If the cracks are between the intake and exhaust valves on each cylinder, just ignore them. All VW diesels have these cracks and some head rebuilders will try to sell you a new head but it is a scam. The cracks rarely cause any problems. Don't let some wizard with a TIG torch mess with them either. That will cause more problems than not.
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Pics are in.. (crappy phone pics, but still) I marked the cracks.. They are mainly between the valve and the glowplug chamber. (or whatever the hell that is)
(http://lh3.google.com/adriaansinke/RpE9VV20DdI/AAAAAAAAAB0/FcqPsTQjhlU/s800/PIC-0013%20large.jpg)
(http://lh6.google.com/adriaansinke/RpE9SF20DcI/AAAAAAAAABs/eV000AN3PPM/s800/PIC-0013.jpg)
I counted about 7, will have to take some better images, but it does not look nice. Anyone have any images of the "normal" cracks as they are "supposed":) to be in these heads?
Valve marks on all the pistons.
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If the cracks have not penetrated into the coolant jacket, I would not worry about them. What you are seeing is not unusual. The only way to check the valves properly now is to disassemble the head checking the valve head run out with a V block and a dial guage. or just eyeball them by rolling the stem on a flat surface looking for the head of the valve to wobble. If your head has a couple of hundred thousand Kms then replace valves and guides for optimum sealing and oil consumption control. The pistons will be fine but you may want to drop a new set of rings in it as you have it all apart.
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VolksWagon just quoted me £226 -> $520 for a replacemnt pulley! :cry:
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I assume that is their price to install and set the timing?? If it is then it's right in the ball park.
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Hi guys - i have a 1.9Tdi 90 BHP diesel which seems to have suufered the same fate.
bent most of the valves in the process.
I have a new head that has been fully rebuilt etc.
i m just worried about the pulley - the part no i have is 028 105 263 D - would it be ok to go buy this part again or is there an uprated version of this part - dont want to be buying the part if there is a risk of it happenign all again.
thanks and sorry if i hijacked the thread.
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That price is just for the part!
I spode it has lasted over 10 years, and it is a good preventative measure since my sprocket and bolt are fine, but £266 for a pulley? Thing is with the van is I am chucking good money after bad, and it's still a shoddy rust bucket! What would happen if I welded it up, or fitted a pulley without this harmonic dampener?
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Hey guys im a little confused here - why is the puley so expensive - the pulley for my car is only £21 - how come its so expensive for yours.
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I too am confused! Ask VW.
I guess they will say it is because the pulley ahs this Harmonic dampener on it (mounted by rummer)...what car is your pulley for, does it have this dampener?
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So, got myself a new (replacement) head
While I was at it had it rebuilt, will get it back tomorrow..
Not cheap.. 125 euro for the head + 330 for the rebuild including all gaskets..
new valve seats and guides though, so at least it will run for a while..
Just need to get myself a new model balancer, anyone know how I can recognize a new one?
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I have the AHU engine - pulley 21 pounds and bolt 2 pounds.
I was fortunate to be able to get a fully rebuilt head with new lifters,seals valves etc ( genuine parts for 150 pounds ) mates rates. Should be getting the car back today/tomorrow.
costing quite a bit to get it all done considering headgasket. seals etc etc.
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Sure taking my time I hear you all think ;)
I was planning on not spending too much, but as these things go, better to do it right.
Does anyone know what the partnumber is of the new and improved harmonic balancer?
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From another topic:
fspGTD
Authorized Vendor
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 4:23 am
"Did you know that VW changed the part number of the 1.9lTD harmonic balancer for the latter half of '97? Somewhere in that year, it seems they put on the same harmonic balancer that they used on the TDI, engine code AHU. It may have something to do with the crank bolt loosening - but I don't know.
Here are the details:
028 105 243 R / AAZ ('94, '95, '96, '97 Jetta)
028 105 243 T / AAZ ('97 Jetta) / AHU (TDI?)"