VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: jajell on May 17, 2007, 02:10:16 pm
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Ok I have a chance to get a 1.6 NA pretty cheap but I want to know what its like driving one of these out in the real world.
Are they REALLY sluggish? Will I have the pedal to the floor all the time to pass someone?
Just curious?
Jason
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should post in the general section for this... but yes the non aspirated version is pretty sluggish... as is the turbo version when the turbo isn't spooled up. imo i would rather drive n/a diesel than gasser. mileage is terrific! but i like my turbo diesel :twisted:
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I drove a 91 Golf NA for two years. It wasn't fast, but it was a blast to drive. Uber reliable, great mileage, excellent handling and braking. Acceleration is nothing great but it will keep up with 120kph traffic easely, doing 40mpg.
I wish I still had the car but it got totalled by some dumb granny cutting me off on a boulevard. If I would have had a garage to fix it, I would have done a complete restoration (the underside was 99% rust free which is rare where I live) but I had to let it go. It was my first car :(
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/NA%20Diesel/IMG_2854.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/Accident/Photo002.jpg)
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wow... its weird looking at the hood not being bent up, and the fender all torn and smushed
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wow... its weird looking at the hood not being bent up, and the fender all torn and smushed
I know, it looks really odd. The hood only had a slight bend at the corner. I hit her car, a green neon, at an angle and completely crushed her driver's side doors and b-pillar
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My NA was fast.. not super fast or anything but defintly nothing to complain about. I ended up swapping it into my friends mk2 with a big heavy stereo system when he blew up his 1.9TD and even he said it was fast (considering). Once you learn to drive a slow car fast you'll never notice
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I have been in slow cars before but I just wanted to check. I just wanted to make sure I could climb hills. Its an MK1 with a super clean body and on 70K on the clock and a 4 speed.
He averages 50 mpg so I know its been well maintained. New clutch and timing belt already and it looks pretty damn good considering. And its a 4 door!
Sounds like a fun project to me. Clean up some minor rust, paint it, go to round headlights, and a slight height drop and it will look great. Also my brother in law is doing biodiesel for his Dodge truck so I suggested I would be a great test for it.
All it needs are tires, brakes, and a radiator and a little TLC.
I think I am going to take the plunge as long as the boss is ok with it.
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NAs are just fine in mk1s, they are so light. I only had problems with large hills on the highway when my car looked like this
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/untitled-2.jpg)
even then it only lost about 20 km/h on a HUGE hill
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With NA's specifically (and most early VW diesels in general) it's all about the big "M"... momentum. Keep that momentum up and you'll be amazed what that little engine can do.
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Now that's a full car. :shock:
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burn your money did the pretty lady in the pic ride with ya. :wink:
Just playin.
N/As are good if your after reliability and mileage.
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See now, it all in the way ya look at it. I think you have a highly modified left front fender intercooler/ cold air intake opening there!
Hey! Thats my sister!!!
:wink: :lol: :lol:
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burn your money did the pretty lady in the pic ride with ya. :wink:
Just playin.
N/As are good if your after reliability and mileage.
Sure did :D still does actually
My TD gets better mileage then my NA, and is currently more reliable
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i drove my jetta na for a year and a half. and i liked it i guess haha, it's slow but its fun. i had no trouble merging on the highway or going up hills or anything really, it drove fine. and i could pin it at 85mph. and now with my rabbit, which has a rebuilt engine, i don't have any trouble either, and it's an automatic. it's slow, but it's still fun and keeps up with traffic fine. a little bad for the highway cause of the automatic though
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Just do the governor mod, crank the main fuel screw a bit, rebuild your nozzles etc and its not bad at all.
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I have an 86 1.6NA. Forget about passing anyone on the highway. It might happen occasionally but don't count on it. As long as you keep it at 100kph or lower I average 53 mpg (imperial). I use it mostly to drive to work, speed limit is 80 kph, everyone drives 90-100. I can keep up, but get passed leaving most lights. My fuel costs are 1/3 of what they were with a gasser (full size). Handles and brakes fine, acceleration is better than most little ole granny's (except in Pasadena). Once you go over 110 kph, fuel mileage drops drastically. If you do mostly highway driving at higher speeds I personally would not recommend a NA.
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I think power and sluggish are mainly states of mind. I had a new 1984 Jetta 1.6NA that I drove for 330,000km and a new 1986 Jetta 1.6NA that was in my family for over 600,000km. They are not as fast as a gas car, but they are rock-solid reliable and very easy on fuel. As you drive it, you'll learn that there are some places that you don't even try to pass, but you will enjoy passing everyone at the gas station.
You can get Giles to build you a pump for more power. It makes a big difference.
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I drove a MK1 Rabbit 1.6 NA w/ 4 speed manual last Summer. 400,000 km on the motor. I don't know if the PO did a fuel mod as there was a little bit of smoke at WOT (it could be some slightly worn parts), but it wasn't as slow as I expected. It can reach 120-140km/h on the highway without issues. No problems keeping up with city traffic either. Averaged 43.3 US MPG while driving the "crap" out of it. It's a nice motor; great longevity, simple, and lightweight.
Yes there are some highway passes that couldn't be accomplished safely like a 100+ hp car can, but it's actually quite fun to deal with the daily challenge of calculating the speed/acceleration in advance for effective merging. With a souped up motor, just tap the accelerator pedal and you're kissing the rear bumper of the car in front of you. Yawn. NAs are fun in their own way.
Also if you cared about fuel economy you wouldn't want to pass many cars at 140+km/h - you'll just cruise at ~100km/h with every other car to save fuel. I guess it depends on where you live, around here I don't deal with a lot of slow semi trucks on busy single lanes.
Like others said, NAs can be modified (http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4391) for more power if that's desired.
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I have a 85 golf NA 5-spd. Its great for the first 30 feet. Then every one catches you :lol: . If you care to live in the upper end of the rpm scale, I think they move out. Most of the time by the time I hit the shift between 3nd and 4th I have caught up and am passing. I find I have good power between 65 and 85mph. Of course it may just be that no one else wants to step on it, and are wondering who the heck that guy is in the old car cruising past me blowing smoke :D
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If you really want to drive a slow diesel, try a Mercedes 240D automatic, a Chevy S-10 diesel or a Datsun pickup diesel.
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I thought that Giles said the gov mod does not apply to NAs because it increases the fuel at the wrong time? Or perhaps he was just refering to shimming one of the springs and not the other?
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I thought that Giles said the gov mod does not apply to NAs because it increases the fuel at the wrong time? Or perhaps he was just refering to shimming one of the springs and not the other?
one of his n/a pumps was dynoed on a car and achieved a 20 whp increase... pretty significant! :shock:
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I have a N/A in a Rabbit. Those cars are very light and I have no trouble keeping up with city traffic and I've never wanted for more power (I just don't cut people off in the Rabbit ;) ).
I've only had it on the freeway twice and it felt a lot more sluggish above 50mph. All that wind and rolling resistance, I guess...
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I thought that Giles said the gov mod does not apply to NAs because it increases the fuel at the wrong time? Or perhaps he was just refering to shimming one of the springs and not the other?
one of his n/a pumps was dynoed on a car and achieved a 20 whp increase... pretty significant! :shock:
I'm familiar with that one, defintly a massive gain in power. Do we know for sure that he did the gov mod on that one?
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I thought that Giles said the gov mod does not apply to NAs because it increases the fuel at the wrong time? Or perhaps he was just refering to shimming one of the springs and not the other?
one of his n/a pumps was dynoed on a car and achieved a 20 whp increase... pretty significant! :shock:
I'm familiar with that one, defintly a massive gain in power. Do we know for sure that he did the gov mod on that one?
touché... i would imagine maybe a slight modding of the gov... but yes no confirmations on that.. probably just timing advance curv modding...
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I thought that Giles said the gov mod does not apply to NAs because it increases the fuel at the wrong time? Or perhaps he was just refering to shimming one of the springs and not the other?
He said to just shim the intermediate spring, and not the main.
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Thanks for clarifying Jim
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Well I am 90% sure I will be joining the ranks of the diesel owners here in the coming week!
Thanks for the info. This is going to be a fun and relaxing project for me. I love cars and I needed something like this to play around with and I could not pass on the deal.
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I thought that Giles said the gov mod does not apply to NAs because it increases the fuel at the wrong time? Or perhaps he was just refering to shimming one of the springs and not the other?
He said to just shim the intermediate spring, and not the main.
Guess I remembered it wrong. "u shouldn't do the part load gov mod since it changes the fuel
delivery the wrong way for a NA engine.
but do the max rpm gov mod though
Giles"
Sorry for the mis-info.
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With the mk1 you will be fine for power, however you must consider the following
New injector nozzles, timing belt, flush cooling system, new filters, replace muffler with something bigger/better flow (very important, most old diesel mufflers are so choked up and clogged with soot nothing is getting through anymore), set injection timing and pump fueling.
I did this to my 87 and went from 55mpg up to 65-70mpg and sometime more, cruising at 100km/h (60mph) highway driving. I had NO ISSUES with passing, tons of power and a top speed of 100mph not a miss print. I drove from Ontario out to BC with it fully loaded down, I managed to stay with traffic on all but two mountains, they are fine up to about 10% grades, then power is an issues on long climbs.
If you don't set the pump up you will have power issues, I found every year the pump needs fine tuning as thing wear. If you have late mk2 (1990 or so) you must swap the trans, you will have the terrible emmissions gearing that screams out on the highways and wastes fuel...
Greg