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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: stevenrossi on December 28, 2004, 04:59:55 pm
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Hey guys, I hate to bring my troubles to this forum but I've got no other resources...I really really need your help.
My Car:
1994 Golf GL TD 1.9L w/ 210 000KM
I took it into greenbelt VW because it needed a new rear bearing and serpentine belt pulley and I ended up 'splurging' and just got a whole whack of stuff done. I've worked in the Auto industry for years now and needless to say, If i wanted it done cheap...I know tones of shops...my mentality was "if your going to have it done for a special car, you might as well have it done right" --- that and I know the service manager there.
Anyway, I brought the car in to have the following done:
Passenger Side Rear Bearing
Rear Brake Shoes
Timing Belt
Water Pump
Serp Belt w/ pulley
And I supplied all the parts - it ended up costing me just over $1200 before parts and about $1500 after parts.
Now --- the service guy I knew went on vacation the week that the car was in the shop...i was dealing with an alternative. I took them about a week to get it done (suspicious) and they hardly ever called me...I had to call them all the time...I got a lot of 'I don’t know whats going on...we'll call you in a few minutes to let you know" (never called me back). I started to get really nervous but I went to go pick it up in the middle of the night about a week later...REMEMBER NOW that the car had NO problems before entering the shop...it may have had a TINY oil leak, but nothing serous...never burnt anything, smoked, sputtered...etc. Anyway, back to the story...I go pick it up w/ my brother..
I start it. its got a bit of a 'cold start squeak' --- I don’t mind, figure it'll go away once it warms up. Meh, it's ok. I sit in and just make sure that everything’s ok...looks in order. So i pull off and start going. Now for you who are in the Markham area this place is at 407 and Kennedy. I start driving it forward and I get to 14th ave (on Kennedy --- about 1 KM later) and I'm just cruzing...never go crazy w/ it...it only have 70HP anyway....I start smelling some BURING...I got distracted and keep on going nice and easy...no cars on the road...I get to Milliken Mills and i see a red light flashing at me...its overheated!!! not only that, its all the way over to FULL HEAT...so i shut off the engine and coast into Milliken Mills Community Center and just park it...I call my brother and my Dad and he calls CAA - the tow truck driver comes and drives it back...IM FURIOUS at this point...I know overheating is terrible for any car.
The following morning:
They call me and tell me that its my "fan switch" which just HAPPENED to not work at that time...not even that...they said that it only functioned on HIGH SPEED
Things I found odd:
-No diesel will EVER over heat on a -5 (degree) night in just 2KM of easy driving
-If my high speed fan worked, where’s the problem...it worked at its highest speed, so if there would be any problem, it would be that my car would stay too cold? no?
Anyway, they stick to their guns and said "We gave it an EXTENSIVE test drive before parking it and it ran fine" --- so they claim it was just coincidence... :roll:
Anyway...they change the switch and even charge me $30 for it...BTW that took 2 days!!! 2 DAYS to do a fan switch...again, I have NO clue what’s going on...I’m FULLY in the dark...and apparently they changed the oil again...even though it wasn't on the receipt... :shock:
...2 weeks later...I check my oil...NONE!...its gotten a lot colder since (-20 degrees) and I figure something’s odd...sounds a little rough. Its not leaking anymore then it was before this (a drop here and there) but now I notice that its smoking....MY CARS BURNING OIL --- never burnt a DROP of oil and nothing funny happened since i got it back...it was probably burning oil since then but I just never noticed, otherwise...again, nothing weird...no REVVING or CRAZY DRIVING or OVERHEATING...etc...Just regular driving to and from work.
...its been parked for about a week now and GREENBELT is sticking to their guns that it just overheated by coincidence and they've got nothing to do with it.
What do i do??? this engine is nearly $2000USED and I really don’t think I’m responsible for it...what do i do??? HELP!!!!
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Steven
Sorry to hear about all this, especially at this time of year. It definitely sounds like this stealership is screwing you over. First off, I would talk to service manager, the one that you know, and tell him what's wrong. After spending $1200, they should do everything they can to fix your car right.
Have you checked the coolant level in the overflow tank. Maybe the morons who worked on your car filled it up only once to the top and though it was full, not realizing that as the air moves out of the system the coolant level drops. Also the temperature sensor located in the head probably wasn't submerged in coolant so it wasn't reading actual coolant temperature. I'm guessing that's why you only went a kilometer or so before the light went off.
As for the oil situation, they probably filled the engine with crappy 5W-30 non-synthetic, gasoline rated engine oil which will not stand up to the punishment of a diesel engine. This would be my first thought as to why the oil is burning/evaporating.
Good luck with all this.
Peter
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Not that I'm taking sides, but if your fan doesn't work on low speed, it won't work on high either. It needs the momentum of the fan moving on low to be able to speed up to the high setting.
Also, it could be burning oil because it overheated.
One thing that really hurts your case is that you took it in the middle of the night. It would be one thing to show up and get their ok and drive off and have these problems, but they can claim it wasn't finished or something which will definitely not be beneficial to your claims.
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I took it when they gave me the go ahead...they even had the invoice printed up...I can match up the invoice time/date to when the tow truck picked me up as well as my visa statement. If it wasn't finished, there would be no invoice printed. Furthermore, this is why I think they're lying...they say my fan turns on @ high speeds but not low, using your statement...that can't even be true.
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Steven
Sorry to hear about all this, especially at this time of year. It definitely sounds like this stealership is screwing you over. First off, I would talk to service manager, the one that you know, and tell him what's wrong. After spending $1200, they should do everything they can to fix your car right.
Have you checked the coolant level in the overflow tank. Maybe the morons who worked on your car filled it up only once to the top and though it was full, not realizing that as the air moves out of the system the coolant level drops. Also the temperature sensor located in the head probably wasn't submerged in coolant so it wasn't reading actual coolant temperature. I'm guessing that's why you only went a kilometer or so before the light went off.
As for the oil situation, they probably filled the engine with crappy 5W-30 non-synthetic, gasoline rated engine oil which will not stand up to the punishment of a diesel engine. This would be my first thought as to why the oil is burning/evaporating.
Good luck with all this.
Peter
That was my guess, I bet they didn't fill it up properly because its next to impossible for it to overheat that quickly.
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ya right... fan doesnt even need to work in winter time... I'm actually thinking of a way to bypass the rad (so i can get some heat!!!) with a solenoid or some kind of valve switch... Maybe that guy didn't have much experience with diesel??? If there is no oil in your engine maybe they didnt put the oil filter on right--if the guy changed your timing belt he must have known how to time it, which means the mechanic isn't that stupid...
I'd never go to a stealership--I got a nice mechanic who does all my work. He charges me $150 for bearings (installed + everything!)
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Not that I'm taking sides, but if your fan doesn't work on low speed, it won't work on high either. It needs the momentum of the fan moving on low to be able to speed up to the high setting.
Also, it could be burning oil because it overheated.
the fan won't come on in 2km of driving in -5 degree weather. Only the top half of the rad will heat up, though the coolant will circulate. The fan mainly comes on in city driving in the summertime, or during periods of extended idling.
It only has one speed that I know of.
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Anyway, I brought the car in to have the following done:
Passenger Side Rear Bearing
Rear Brake Shoes
Timing Belt
Water Pump
Serp Belt w/ pulley
And I supplied all the parts - it ended up costing me just over $1200 before parts and about $1500 after parts.
you replace the rear wheel bearings in pairs. Never just one.
I get to Milliken Mills and i see a red light flashing at me...its overheated!!! not only that, its all the way over to FULL HEAT...so i shut off the engine and coast into Milliken Mills Community Center and just park it...I call my brother and my Dad and he calls CAA - the tow truck driver comes and drives it back...IM FURIOUS at this point...I know overheating is terrible for any car.
Vapour lock probably. They must have known how to put coolant in a VW.
...2 weeks later...I check my oil...NONE!...its gotten a lot colder since (-20 degrees) and I figure something’s odd...sounds a little rough. Its not leaking anymore then it was before this (a drop here and there) but now I notice that its smoking....MY CARS BURNING OIL --- never burnt a DROP of oil and nothing funny happened since i got it back...it was probably burning oil since then but I just never noticed, otherwise...again, nothing weird...no REVVING or CRAZY DRIVING or OVERHEATING...etc...Just regular driving to and from work.
this is weird to me. You say the car is leaking oil. It shouldn't. You should fix oil leaks when you find them. When you say it had no oil, do you mean it was empty, or there was no oil showing on the dipstick? I believe those cars take almost 5L of oil, and the dipstick registers the top 1L so if nothing shows on the stick, you have 4L in the pan (or less). If there was no oil at all, believe me, you wouldn't have made it to the bottom of your driveway. As for the oil burning, I don't see how changing a timing belt and a water pump could make a car burn oil. Oil burning is usually the result of worn piston rings. It takes 100s of thousands of kilometers of driving to wear out piston rings. You usually find worn piston rings only on very high mileage cars. The only other cause for this could be a partially blown head gasket, which could have happened when you overheated the car by driving with the cooling light on. Either that or a cracked block or cylinder head, but that is unlikely, as the head gasket usually blows before anything cracks (pressure takes the path of least resistance).
been parked for about a week now and GREENBELT is sticking to their guns that it just overheated by coincidence and they've got nothing to do with it.
What do i do??? this engine is nearly $2000USED and I really don’t think I’m responsible for it...what do i do??? HELP!!!!
you need to find out what happened to all that oil. 1L is a lot to lose. Hopefully the people at the dealership will cooperate with you. Try to be polite but firm.
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damn dude.
i have nothing to offer but support.
please keep us up to date with the details.
maybe get the vw corporate office involved in this? another mechanics opinion via a 100 pt inspection?
rico
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I have personally had the problem with the "vaporlock" situation. I improperly filled my coolant after blowing a heater hose. I started my 1981 VW Rabbit Diesel, left work and didn't make it over a mile before it started overheating. I promptly shut it off, sat there a while, filled it with coolant again, this time with the engine running and "revving" it up occasionally and drove it home. I didn't have anymore trouble after that with it heating up.
I believe that is why it overheated, they didn't know what they were doing filling it up with coolant.
My .02 cents worth.
Tim
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once, i had a very fast overheat because the coolant in the rad froze, too much water. no heat from the dash vents either, the heatercore was frozen. coolant was too watered down.
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Check to see if something like the drain plug or valve cover is loose. I worked at an oil change place where some guy came in twice with his car dripping oil on his brand new driveway. My job was to wash windows so I didn't know what was going on but later found out that they didn't look at his car the first time and on the second return they found that his drain plug was about to fall out. Rather than pay to have his driveway repaved they tightened the bolt and said they couldn't see anything wrong. :shock: I would have liked to make things fair for the guy but it was too late to do anything to do anything when I found out.
Steve
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I doubt that the VW head office will give a rat's rear end how a customer who owned an eleven-year-old car was treated by a dealer. VW dealers, in my own experience, are incredibly short sighted in respect of wanting to provide decent service to older vehicles. They stay in business by selling you the next new thing, like an $80,000 Phaeton, not by giving you nickle & dime repairs on your old car... particularly when you bring your own parts in, so they can't even charge the usual dealer parts markup!
These days, you can't even talk directly to the mechanic who works on your car at a VW dealership. You talk to a "service advisor" instead, who is nothing more or less than a salesman. The last time I seriously considered getting my vehicle VW-dealer-serviced, the questions I asked the service advisor were obviously well beyond his own mechanical knowledge & ability, and he had to take a message and act as go-between to ask the mechanic directly. The answer he eventually gave me was a garbled mess, as you might expect would result from a grade-school game of "telephone". So I eventually managed to get the mechanic on the phone directly, much to the irritation of the service advisor. After I had my correct answer from the horse's mouth, the service advisor got back on the line and told me in no uncertain terms that Vanagons were too old to be of any interest for the dealership to service, and he suggested I check the yellow pages for an independant European car mechanic for future service work.
So, from that experience, I have determined that VW dealership service departments are run by a$$holes. I distinguish the service advisors & managers from the mechanics themselves, who IMHO are not to blame for this sorry bean-counting mess. (The mechanic I spoke with on the phone said as much to me, which must have embarassed the hell out of the service advisor if he was in ear-shot). This is a chain-of-command issue, from the top down, which is why I so seriously doubt you'll get any joy from VW of Canada head office for the way you were treated with a 1994 car.
However, the VW service advisors are not hypocrites at least, which I suppose is a point in their favour. That service advisor I'm writing about more or less said, in all honesty: "I'm going to be an a$$hole to anyone with an older car who isn't going to generate the kind of money a newer vehicle will generate, because you frankly are not worth my time."
Moral of the story - find an indy VW mechanic who you trust, or buy a Volvo, where the dealerships provide excellent service to older cars (in my experience). Volvos are (or at least, used to be) sold on their longevity, while VWs never have been. The Volvo dealer treats (or used to treat) the older-model car owner with respect, as the dealer knows that owner (and frequently his whole family) will probably stick with Volvos over the long haul, and will doubtless buy a new vehicle (or several) at some point. Volvo dealers take a much longer-term view to profit-making than VW dealers, in my experience. The VW dealer needs the quick-hit cash infusion NOW NOW NOW!
(By the way, for comparison's sake, anyone know what a VW dealer charges to de-coke the intake on a new-ish TDi? I'm betting it's $1000 for that job alone. If you think $1200 spent at the VW service department is a big investment and they should pay attention to you for it, from the dealership's perspective, and probably head office's, too, you have another think coming.)
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I doubt that the VW head office will give a rat's rear end how a customer who owned an eleven-year-old car was treated by a dealer. VW dealers, in my own experience, are incredibly short sighted in respect of wanting to provide decent service to older vehicles. They stay in business by selling you the next new thing, like an $80,000 Phaeton, not by giving you nickle & dime repairs on your old car... particularly when you bring your own parts in, so they can't even charge the usual dealer parts markup!
These days, you can't even talk directly to the mechanic who works on your car at a VW dealership. You talk to a "service advisor" instead, who is nothing more or less than a salesman. The last time I seriously considered getting my vehicle VW-dealer-serviced, the questions I asked the service advisor were obviously well beyond his own mechanical knowledge & ability, and he had to take a message and act as go-between to ask the mechanic directly. The answer he eventually gave me was a garbled mess, as you might expect would result from a grade-school game of "telephone". So I eventually managed to get the mechanic on the phone directly, much to the irritation of the service advisor. After I had my correct answer from the horse's mouth, the service advisor got back on the line and told me in no uncertain terms that Vanagons were too old to be of any interest for the dealership to service, and he suggested I check the yellow pages for an independant European car mechanic for future service work.
So, from that experience, I have determined that VW dealership service departments are run by a$$holes. I distinguish the service advisors & managers from the mechanics themselves, who IMHO are not to blame for this sorry bean-counting mess. (The mechanic I spoke with on the phone said as much to me, which must have embarassed the hell out of the service advisor if he was in ear-shot). This is a chain-of-command issue, from the top down, which is why I so seriously doubt you'll get any joy from VW of Canada head office for the way you were treated with a 1994 car.
However, the VW service advisors are not hypocrites at least, which I suppose is a point in their favour. That service advisor I'm writing about more or less said, in all honesty: "I'm going to be an a$$hole to anyone with an older car who isn't going to generate the kind of money a newer vehicle will generate, because you frankly are not worth my time."
Moral of the story - find an indy VW mechanic who you trust, or buy a Volvo, where the dealerships provide excellent service to older cars (in my experience). Volvos are (or at least, used to be) sold on their longevity, while VWs never have been. The Volvo dealer treats (or used to treat) the older-model car owner with respect, as the dealer knows that owner (and frequently his whole family) will probably stick with Volvos over the long haul, and will doubtless buy a new vehicle (or several) at some point. Volvo dealers take a much longer-term view to profit-making than VW dealers, in my experience. The VW dealer needs the quick-hit cash infusion NOW NOW NOW!
(By the way, for comparison's sake, anyone know what a VW dealer charges to de-coke the intake on a new-ish TDi? I'm betting it's $1000 for that job alone. If you think $1200 spent at the VW service department is a big investment and they should pay attention to you for it, from the dealership's perspective, and probably head office's, too, you have another think coming.)
Well Said --- i'm talking to Dr. D right now, maybe I get get back on the road for a good price.
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well, that isnt going to help him right now, is it?
how about complaining to the bbb, or taking it up with the local paper, etc.
im not saying its going to be an easy fight, but jeez, i wouldnt roll over and take it up the *** either!!
rico
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I just remembered something that's in my owners manual. If the dealer is being a hard ass you can contact VW Canada directly. They will try to resolve things through arbitration or down right tell the dealer to shape up.
Steve
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i have had similar diffculties with my local vw dealer, to get parts for my aaz i pretty much have to have the part number before hand. the first time i went in there and told them i had an aaz motor they told me to take it back to canada to get it repaired and for parts :evil:.
now toyota on the other hand has been GREAT they have copied the sevice manual pages for me back when i didn't have one, or even when i just had a small question they would always help me out :)
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Not that I'm taking sides, but if your fan doesn't work on low speed, it won't work on high either. It needs the momentum of the fan moving on low to be able to speed up to the high setting.
Also, it could be burning oil because it overheated.
One thing that really hurts your case is that you took it in the middle of the night. It would be one thing to show up and get their ok and drive off and have these problems, but they can claim it wasn't finished or something which will definitely not be beneficial to your claims.
the fan will work on either speed does not need low to get to high. pop your hood open and try for yourself with some clip leads to the battery.
you can start the fan in high speed no problem
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Not that I'm taking sides, but if your fan doesn't work on low speed, it won't work on high either. It needs the momentum of the fan moving on low to be able to speed up to the high setting.
Also, it could be burning oil because it overheated.
One thing that really hurts your case is that you took it in the middle of the night. It would be one thing to show up and get their ok and drive off and have these problems, but they can claim it wasn't finished or something which will definitely not be beneficial to your claims.
the fan will work on either speed does not need low to get to high. pop your hood open and try for yourself with some clip leads to the battery.
you can start the fan in high speed no problem
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Not that I'm taking sides, but if your fan doesn't work on low speed, it won't work on high either. It needs the momentum of the fan moving on low to be able to speed up to the high setting.
Also, it could be burning oil because it overheated.
One thing that really hurts your case is that you took it in the middle of the night. It would be one thing to show up and get their ok and drive off and have these problems, but they can claim it wasn't finished or something which will definitely not be beneficial to your claims.
the fan will work on either speed does not need low to get to high. pop your hood open and try for yourself with some clip leads to the battery.
you can start the fan in high speed no problem
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Well Fella's -- i've faxed over a letter to VW Canada - its be nearly a full work week and i've gotten no reply, me or my Father.
goes like this (pre-edited version)
To Whom It May Concern:
My name is Steven Rossi, I own a 1994 Volkswagen Golf 4 Door Turbo Diesel Indirect Injection (Vehicle Identification Number 3VWFP01H6RM082284). The car was purchased, with a clean title, certified and emissions tested though a car dealership during the spring of 2004 with 174 000KM on the original engine. I purchased a Volkswagen Diesel for a multitude of reasons, the main ones being:
1. Low Operating Costs (fuel, insurance, and repairs)
2. Reliability
3. High Praises for service and support
Pervious to purchasing this vehicle I had done plenty of research into the common weaknesses and strengths of both Volkswagen and this generation IDI Turbo Diesel in particular, these cars were said to be practically indestructible (with regular oil changes and timing belt changes every 80 000KM – 100 000KM). More over, let me introduce myself with more detail. I’ve been working, intensively, in the Automotive Parts industry for nearly 3 years now and prior to that I was nothing short of a car fanatic. I currently stand as the Aftermarket Sales Manager and Coordinator of New Parts and Operations at Standard Auto Wreckers in Scarborough Ontario; needless to say I work quite closely with the some of the largest service centers in Ontario, that said, I am not only very fluent with Automotive Parts I also must know every part of every car and its relationship and function within that automobile. Once purchasing this car, I was surprised on how well it drove for a car over 10 years old. Throughout the months, I invested into a few minor maintenance related repairs, nothing was wrong with the car; I’m just a large proponent of preventative maintenance. I knew that I should get my timing belt replaced before the cold weather of the winter arrived; a snapped timing belt is far more serious with the high compression Turbo Diesel engine then with most other cars. With my father already having invested nearly $100 000 with Greenbelt Volkswagen and never having any serious qualms, I decided that I would take my Turbo Diesel to the highly acclaimed service technicians at Greenbelt. That takes us up to the matter at hand.
On November 16th, 2004, my serpentine belt had slipped off of my belt tensioner (which is to be changed along with the timing belt) and left my car stranded, I decided that it would be a good idea to have my Volkswagen towed into Greenbelt and have my timing belt changed, as well as the rear wheel bearings (both of which are supposed to be done at the same time). I had my car brought in the evening of the 17th and had a quote compiled of all the things that should be done. Needless to say, I chose Greenbelt because I had faith that they were, without a doubt, the best Volkswagen Technicians in the Greater Toronto Area. I knew hundreds of Mechanics who could have done the same work for a fraction of the cost, but who wouldn’t agree with me in saying its worth every penny knowing you’ll have it done right the first time, going to Greenbelt, for me, was investing in peace of mind – it has proven to be the biggest mistake in my adult life.
Before I continue, let’s establish a very well known fact about Diesel Motors, they run at much lower operating temperatures than any typical Gasoline fueled engine, it’s a commonly known fact. It’s always been said, a Diesel motor may take a long time to heat up, but once it gets going they’re unstoppable. It would typically take about 15KM of driving before my Turbo Diesel (as well as my fathers two TDI’s) would even begin warm up. It’s even been documented on some of the Online Forums of some Diesel owners trying to fabricate a “kill switch” for the cooling motors so to let their Diesel motors heat up quicker in the winter months. That said, let’s continue…after the Greenbelt had 24 hours from the original date of receiving the car, I decided to go in and speak to Travis (service representative) to decide on what work was to be done on my vehicle. After some discussion it was agreed upon that the following things would be done on the car:
• Examine for any Oil Leaks
• Oil / Filter Change
• Timing Belt, Belt Tensioner, and Water Pump Change
• Rear Wheel Bearings to be replaced (with new)
• Rear Brake Shoes to be replaced (with new)
It was also agreed that I would supply my own parts from a much respected NEW Volkswagen / Audi parts retailer (Frisco Auto Parts). The go ahead was given on the 18th of November and service was to begin on the 19th. I assumed (through the Mitchell Books hour guide) that it would take no more than 2 full days to have the work order completed on my vehicle. As the days progressed later into the week, I had rarely heard any updated or received any calls from the service representatives letting me know what the progress on my car was, when I took the time out of my day to call I consistently heard nothing but “I don’t know” and “I’ll call you back” (which he never ONCE did) from a gentlemen by the name of Leroy – I’d hate to think that any representative of Volkswagen does not know the status on one of the cars they are servicing, in fact, at one point he I had to convince him that my car was even in for service. As it moved into the weekend I became less hopeful that I’d receive my car back within any acceptable time frame, it had already been at least 3 days. After many calls I was told to pickup my car after service hours on the 23rd of November, 4 working days (6 full days) after it had originally been brought in for service. At that point my brother had driven me to pick it up (during the cold night of November 23rd, 2004); I paid the outstanding balance ($1,231.61), got the keys to my car from the receptionist and began to drive my car home. Before I had reached 7600 Kennedy Rd (Milliken Mills Community Center – exactly 1.94689KM away) I had noticed a vague ‘burning’ smell coming from my vents, at that moment I realized that my temperature light was on and that my temperature gauge indicated that my engine was a FULL temperature (running double it’s regular temperature). The engine then shut off and I coasted into the parking lot, endangering my life and the drivers around me. My brother then pulled into the parking lot and witnessed that the temperature gauge was maxed and my engine had severely overheated. I called a tow truck driver (who also witnessed the smell and knew that my engine had overheated) and he towed my car back to the service department (the night of November 23rd 2004 – at my own expense).
At this point I found myself in a state of shock. I had been treated very improperly, as if though me and/or my car did not matter to the people of Volkswagen, and on top of that, my safety and my car had been put at risk with improper service, it’s clear that something tremendously wrong had been either done or overlooked during the service on my Golf which in turn has compromised the integrity of my drive train.
Engine overheating can occur for a multitude of reasons, some of them being
• Non-Functioning Thermostat
• Vapor Lock
• Low Coolant
• (typically) warm weather conditions with high engine stress
…for an Volkswagen Golf Turbo Diesel to heat up, let alone overheat within 2-4 minutes (2KM) of operation means an integral part of service was overlooked. Further more, with overheating comes compromised engine integrity, some of the following problems can occur with an engine overheat…
• Crank Shaft Rod Bearing Failure
• Head Gasket Failure
• Piston Ring Failure
• Cracked Cylinder Head
• Cracked Engine Block
(Just to list a few)
The following day I called Greenbelt to speak to the service representative, this was at some point in the early afternoon, they had plenty of time to look at it – they hadn’t. I began to become very weary and upset with this treatment, it became painfully obviously that not only was Greenbelt reluctant to service my car, when something had gone wrong, they didn’t seem to hard-pressed to resolve the situation, everyday without my car was a day that I was not able to go to work. I decided, at that point, to contact the service manger. The service manager was, by far and undoubtedly the rudest individual I had spoken to yet. When I told him the situation he implied two things
A) He did not believe that my car had overheated
B) He did not have time to solve this problem with me
The service manger, at that point, didn’t show any sense of customer care and told me that he had other pressing issues to tend to and that he would have another of his employees to contact me within the hour. It was already expected that no one would contact me, so a few hours later I contacted Leroy again, and he told me they had found the problem. The low-speed fan “thermo switch” was not functioning which caused the engine to overheat – essentially, the fan would only function on high speed (which is what was quoted said by the service representative) and it would cost me $45.32 to change. I asked Leroy how it could be conceivably possible for my low speed fan switch to break at exactly the same time I picked it up and how my fans operating at their highest (most cooling power) speeds could cause my engine to overheat, he had no explanation. Furthermore, it then took two full days (from that point on) to change this switch, which was suspect.
Since November 25th 2004 I took my car back after this whole ordeal and I’ve learnt that the service department and the service at Greenbelt Volkswagen was of the lowest customer quality and was been, by far, the worst experience of my life. As I suspected, and which holds true with all overheated engines, the integrity of my Turbo Diesel Indirect Injection Engine has been compromised and it is now parked in my garage, un-drivable. The engine profusely burns oil (which it had never done once before) and from that day forward has only been driven about ½ a tank, before I realized that it was burning oil. Am I to believe that spending $1500 ($1300 of which was at Greenbelt Volkswagen) to repair a car at a reputable Volkswagen dealership has lead me to lose nearly 1 week or work, caused plenty of unnecessary stress, and most importantly has left me without a drivable car, of which Greenbelt claims no responsibility? As an Co-Coordinator of one of the largest automobile wreckers in Ontario and a active member of the automobile parts and service society in the GTA should I spend this day forward warning the hundreds of automobile service technicians and thousands of automobile enthusiasts that I am in direct contact with on a regular basis about this fiasco that took place at Greenbelt, or will you do the right thing and have the damage caused to my car, as a direct reaction to the poor service, repaired.
Sincerely
Steven Rossi
[email protected]
Tel. (416) 473-****
How long should I wait to be contacted???
SR
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I'd also send a copy of that letter to the better buisiness bureau, the local paper, tv news, etc., and any mechanic governing certification place in your area as well.
im very sorry for you.
i hope things work out in your favour in the end.
rico
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I'd also send a copy of that letter to the better buisiness bureau, the local paper, tv news, etc., and any mechanic governing certification place in your area as well.
im very sorry for you.
i hope things work out in your favour in the end.
rico
I really appreciate your support, i've now lost my job since I cant drive the car...it's gotten personal. Does anyone know how i can get this story out to local and city papers (in toronto?)
SR
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More news, In order to keep my job I’m going to spend at least $1500 to get the engine rebuilt from top to bottom w/ new clutch. I am then going to take Greenbelt VW to small claims court and sue them for the total amount spent for their ignorance. I even called them to ask them to send me a copy of the invoices (because I had lost my own), to which I am legally obligated to receive upon request, and they cannot find them. I have bank statements and work orders, but no invoice from them....you tell me how that’s going to make them look in front of the judge? The mechanic who will be rebuilding the engine said it was probably air-lock in the cylinder head that caused it to overheat and he doesn’t really know what the problem is until he looks @ it (Monday morning).
Keep your fingers crossed!
SR
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Dont you mean a $3500 rebuild? :twisted:
All kidding aside, it's good to hear that you may have a solution on the horizon. My guess is that Greenbelt VW will probably settle out of court once they see that you are serious about reporting them.
Keep us updated and good luck.
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
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Dont you mean a $3500 rebuild? :twisted:
All kidding aside, it's good to hear that you may have a solution on the horizon. My guess is that Greenbelt VW will probably settle out of court once they see that you are serious about reporting them.
Keep us updated and good luck.
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
I work at a local wrecking yard (standard auto wreckers), we've got an on-staff diesel mech whos job for the next week is to get my block rebuilt, it'll probably cost me under $1000...im gonna do everything to make sure it's fresh...then im going to expose them on the local (CH. 7 - City TV) news for the stunt they pulled...after that im gonna sue them for $3200 (cost of rebuild, time lost at work, and cost of origional service tht they messed up) ---- im the punisher for shotty service. This is gonna be juicy...
SR
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Could an overheat damage the turbo?
SR
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very hard to say if an overheat could damage the turbo... Overboosting, possibly.
If the engine is already being re-built, you could at least check for shaft play. From my own opinion I would say that the only thing that may cause damage from overheat is the oil since it is linked up from the engine. But hot oil is good for the turbo so I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't damage it. Can EGT damage the turbo? (I'm guessing it could if hot enough... but would an engine overheat be able to create THAT much heat???)
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Hmmm, well the onsite mechanic is having a look at it and tells me that it's been literally shooting oil from the area around the turbo...could be a seal. He'll have a closer look at it, I just know it just started doing this after the overheating. :? ... we'll see what happens.
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not much time to reply.. in class.... but two things...
a) my fan has been pooched in the TD since the spring... i drove it all summer long with no fan EVER always watching the temp and it never got within 1 tick of red at any time (and it gets flogged)
b) this is why you dont ever go to the dealer. i payed $550 once to get my waterpump changed in the corrado (before i learned my lesson)... only to have the alternator come loose on the way home and the pulley grind on the bracket.... there was only one bolt holding it on. i brought it back the dealer within 10 mins of leaving the lot and was told "sorry, there is no one available to look at that today" on the last day of my trip permit, when they already had the car 3 days when they said it would take 1. i now realize a waterpump is like an hour job and you dont even need to take the alternator/G60 out to get at it... you can get it from the bottom :roll:
bottom line, they are in business to make money, just like everyone else. no one will respect your car as much as you will... get a bentley and some tools :D
edit: Dr. D is a good alternative to doing the work yourself if its beyond your skills.
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Just an update:
Still trying to find out exactly what’s wrong w/ the engine. Could be turbo, could be engine...could be.... :( ... both. I'm having the car looked at right now and ill have another opinion by a native German fellow tomorrow (VW / AUDI EXPERT) - either way, i've just got to get the proper info from credible sources and then the legal action (if necessary) will follow. I just can't take this one sitting down.
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P.S ---> I need suggestions... If I were to have to go to court with this, how would I go about proving that the engine did in fact overheat. It's basically my word against theirs. The truth, as you may already know, is that I took my car in to the service shop @ greenbelt...and it left with some problem that had it overheating...I brought it back (that’s my 1st mistake) and they covered up whatever mistakes they may have made on the car ---- essentially, I should have had it towed to another service shop (NON-VW) and had them look at it.
Essentially, all I need is your opinion...how can I prove that my car even overheated let alone proving that the engine overheat has hence damaged my turbocharger and/or engine. I mean the cost of going to court (for VW) will be more than the cost of repairs...but I need to be able to nail them in court...is there any way? I do have records of towing and records (from VW) stating:
"Check Engine Overheat...
---No overheat detected
---Low Speed Thermoswitch not working - replace $45"
...and that’s basically their way of saying that it didn't overheat...I don’t know...any legal advice?
SR
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I would look for melted coolant flanges on the engine. An overly warped or cracked head would be more proof.
You should also dig up a mechanic who will say it is impossible to overheat a VW diesel in the winter if it has coolant in the system. My thermostat NEVER opens below let's say +10C. I don't have a turbo though, so my engine will run cooler.
Sometimes you can get away with a written document from the mechanic but you need some advice. Your local universities will have free legal advice from students and supervisors. It's part of their Law Degree program. It's not quite OJ Simpson quality but it's free...I don't know what the track record is for these groups though. hehe
Steve
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I would look for melted coolant flanges on the engine. An overly warped or cracked head would be more proof.
You should also dig up a mechanic who will say it is impossible to overheat a VW diesel in the winter if it has coolant in the system. My thermostat NEVER opens below let's say +10C. I don't have a turbo though, so my engine will run cooler.
Sometimes you can get away with a written document from the mechanic but you need some advice. Your local universities will have free legal advice from students and supervisors. It's part of their Law Degree program. It's not quite OJ Simpson quality but it's free...I don't know what the track record is for these groups though. hehe
Steve
I appreciate your help, good 'ol sudburian guy...place I used to call home..good old "wembly" drive.
Thx
SR
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Hey guys, news in...its the Turbo --- not working...completley siezed. What could cause a turbo to get cooked like that? Could it have been the overheat?
SR
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Hey guys, news in...its the Turbo --- not working...completley siezed. What could cause a turbo to get cooked like that? Could it have been the overheat?
SR
probably when you were low on oil the turbo didn't get any.
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I've never been low enough on oil to restrict its flow to the turbo...at least I dont think I have been. Either way, I just dont want to cut a loss here - i'm certain that its the dealerships fault and I just need to know if theres any chance that an overheat could damage a turbo...or if its just from wear and tear.
SR
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I've never been low enough on oil to restrict its flow to the turbo...at least I dont think I have been. Either way, I just dont want to cut a loss here - i'm certain that its the dealerships fault and I just need to know if theres any chance that an overheat could damage a turbo...or if its just from wear and tear.
SR
the turbo's oil supply is cooled in an oil cooler on the front of the engine. It operates by using coolant I think. Not sure if the oil cooler is necessary for the turbo or if it is just a precaution.
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but if the engine is heating and cooking the oil, thereby seizing the engine, and restricting the oil flow to the turbo...
rico
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less oil.. means less oil pres right?
did you take it easy drivin around or did u have to step on it a few times (darn that city driving). If you did, that would explain it... there is no cure for low oil... its like cancer for engines
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I always thought that if the turbo died then a TD just becomes a 'robust' NA...
Maybe the engineers took it out for a little 'spin' and hammered it with no oil, limped back and put the forgotten oil in. (I always check the odometer when I leave my car)
Mark(The Miser)UK :twisted:
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I always thought that if the turbo died then a TD just becomes a 'robust' NA...
Maybe the engineers took it out for a little 'spin' and hammered it with no oil, limped back and put the forgotten oil in. (I always check the odometer when I leave my car)
Mark(The Miser)UK :twisted:
One thing I know it does not have is a rod knock or anything, so I’m sure the engine was always well lubricated. It's currently getting fixed, this will cost me another $1300 (new turbo) and hopefully I'll leave this situation behind me having learned to be super precautious with my vehicle.
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Double Post
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It's currently getting fixed, this will cost me another $1300 (new turbo)
it doesn't have to cost you that much. Used turbos can be had for under $100 and they are pretty reliable. Easy to install too. You can swap turbos around on those things. Ask on this board and people will tell you the different units they have on their cars. I believe yours would have a KKK on it. You can use other kinds as well. If you are intent on buying a new one, why not get it from a discount parts place instead of the heavily marked up dealer turbo? For an example of dealer markups, consider my recent experience with rebuilt turbo diesel fuel injectors. Bosch price $101, dealer markup $179, got them from Jack at VW parts.com in the states for $44. Why give your money to other people when you can keep it?
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You know, at the start of this thread, I was set on making sure that my car was fixed and that the repairs were taken care of by those who were responsible. It's been THE biggest pain in the ARSE I’ve ever had to deal with in my life and I'm fed up. Used (working) ones are not as easily attainable as one would think and I just can't go on a chaise to save a few bucks. I'm getting a whole slew of work done to my car (new turbo, all oil leaks fixed, rear wiper motor...etc) and hopefully I can just put this whole fiasco behind me. I love the idea of getting something that should normally cost $1300 done for $200, but right now...I’m missing work and really can’t afford to waist anymore time. The new mechanic I’m using seems to really know what he's doing and hopefully, after spending nearly $3500 on a $5000 car...I can finally drive a reliable car. I’ve learned to be very careful with who does work on your car, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, do not buy a used car from a small used car dealership.
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Used (working) ones are not as easily attainable as one would think and I just can't go on a chaise to save a few bucks.
Try Frisco auto parts: call (416) 736-9595 ask for Henry. I'm pretty sure he has some.
after spending nearly $3500 on a $5000 car...I can finally drive a reliable car.
wow, man, that's a lot of dough for an 11 year old car with 210,000km on it. For $8500 you could almost get a new car (I think the entry price right now for a brand new econobox is $10,000). Just to p*ss you off further, and because I love playing devil's advocate (or at least, letting people know things they'd rather not know), old high mileage diesels that leak oil, generally do so because they have a lot of blow by past the rings, and the crankcase gets pressurized, pushing the oil out. This is because diesels operate at positive pressure (ie, they always suck in as much air as they can get) and have no engine vacuum. Turbo diesels are particularly bad for this because of the added psi that the turbo pumps into the cylinders. Maybe get your mechanic to do a quick compression test on your engine before you spend too much more money. You might get a shock. A diesel engine with good rings usually won't leak any oil, even if some of the seals are questionable. Exception to this is the valve cover gasket, which almost always leaks at the back.
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Used (working) ones are not as easily attainable as one would think and I just can't go on a chaise to save a few bucks.
Try Frisco auto parts: call (416) 736-9595 ask for Henry. I'm pretty sure he has some.
after spending nearly $3500 on a $5000 car...I can finally drive a reliable car.
wow, man, that's a lot of dough for an 11 year old car with 210,000km on it. For $8500 you could almost get a new car (I think the entry price right now for a brand new econobox is $10,000). Just to p*ss you off further, and because I love playing devil's advocate (or at least, letting people know things they'd rather not know), old high mileage diesels that leak oil, generally do so because they have a lot of blow by past the rings, and the crankcase gets pressurized, pushing the oil out. This is because diesels operate at positive pressure (ie, they always suck in as much air as they can get) and have no engine vacuum. Turbo diesels are particularly bad for this because of the added psi that the turbo pumps into the cylinders. Maybe get your mechanic to do a quick compression test on your engine before you spend too much more money. You might get a shock. A diesel engine with good rings usually won't leak any oil, even if some of the seals are questionable. Exception to this is the valve cover gasket, which almost always leaks at the back.
Ouch - that hurt. You know, Im sure it's got great compression still for the simple fact that it starts PERFECTLY in even the coldest weather. Infact, before any of this happened - there was a day here where it was minus 30...and I had forgotten to plug in either the 2001 TDI or my 1994 TD and I tell ya, they both didn't start, but after 30 mins of plugging them in, the TD roared right up, yet the TDI needed another 30 mins. Even my mechanic says i've got good compression just because it starts right up every time.
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Well Fellas...I got the car back. I've got the oil turbo and BOY is it cooked...about 2MM of play in the shaft and oil leaking everywhere. I'm having it inspected by a professional who will write a report fo what damage has been done to the turbo and from there, i'll take it to the legal systems.
Thx Guys!
Steven Rossi
Toronto Body Parts
New Parts, Used Prices
(416) 473-8197
[email protected]
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Ouch - that hurt. You know, Im sure it's got great compression still for the simple fact that it starts PERFECTLY in even the coldest weather. Infact, before any of this happened - there was a day here where it was minus 30...and I had forgotten to plug in either the 2001 TDI or my 1994 TD and I tell ya, they both didn't start, but after 30 mins of plugging them in, the TD roared right up, yet the TDI needed another 30 mins.
Weird. I live in the same place you do, and my jetta has started every day with no plug in. And it is 18 years old (albeit, freshly rebuilt engine).
Even my mechanic says i've got good compression just because it starts right up every time.
so did my 79 diesel rabbit, and it had 1/2 the compression it should have had. I knew something was wrong because of all the oil leaks. Couldn't keep the oil in the engine. Patch one leak, it came out somewhere else. I ended up venting the crankcase so I could drive it without going through so much oil, but it still burned quite a bit. Do yourself a favour and check your compression. It will cost 4 new heat shields (very cheap) and is totally worth it so at least you know the condition of the engine. Diesels pretty much always start. My Jetta, with no compression at all in one cylinder and 1/4 of what it should have had in the other three, would still start and run if it was cranked over for a while. That was before it was rebuilt. It had 350,000km on it at that time. No power and lots of black smoke, but it still ran perfectly.
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Ouch - that hurt. You know, Im sure it's got great compression still for the simple fact that it starts PERFECTLY in even the coldest weather. Infact, before any of this happened - there was a day here where it was minus 30...and I had forgotten to plug in either the 2001 TDI or my 1994 TD and I tell ya, they both didn't start, but after 30 mins of plugging them in, the TD roared right up, yet the TDI needed another 30 mins.
Weird. I live in the same place you do, and my jetta has started every day with no plug in. And it is 18 years old (albeit, freshly rebuilt engine).
Even my mechanic says i've got good compression just because it starts right up every time.
so did my 79 diesel rabbit, and it had 1/2 the compression it should have had. I knew something was wrong because of all the oil leaks. Couldn't keep the oil in the engine. Patch one leak, it came out somewhere else. I ended up venting the crankcase so I could drive it without going through so much oil, but it still burned quite a bit. Do yourself a favour and check your compression. It will cost 4 new heat shields (very cheap) and is totally worth it so at least you know the condition of the engine. Diesels pretty much always start. My Jetta, with no compression at all in one cylinder and 1/4 of what it should have had in the other three, would still start and run if it was cranked over for a while. That was before it was rebuilt. It had 350,000km on it at that time. No power and lots of black smoke, but it still ran perfectly.
I will, for sure, have my compression professionally checked. I mean it starts perfectly all the time (by the 1st rotation) and it doesn't blow much black smoke at all, in fact...I’m pretty sure that it doesn't at all. I mean I’ll have it looked at and all I can do is PRAY to the lord that it doesn't need a rebuild. From what I hear, these car's turn over back to "0" on the odometer after just 300 000KM, my mechanic speculates that It's actually got 510 000KM on the engine as opposed to just 210 000. I know that it's been in an accident for sure and that most of the parts in the car aren't what originally came in that car (combination switch, rear hatch, rear door...etc). I'll have the compression tested. If its low on any of the cylinders...I’m just going to pretend its not there and stop investing cash into this car. I'll keep you all posted.
*Fingers Crossed*