VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Topherdiesel on December 23, 2004, 08:37:22 am
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I was just wondering whats all invlolved in this swap, into my 93 td, I mean, if I were to come upon one for a decent price?
What all would be invlolved in this swap?
Is it a bolt in, wiring?
Where can I find info on this?
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If you can get a complete totalled A3 TDI car why not put the electronics in? It would be plug and play. The TDI drivetrain from 97-99 will bolt right in.
There are no factory mechanical TDI's, so if you go that route you will have to build the injection pump yourself. It can be done, but getting it to run properly requires the right combination of parts.
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Ahhh, so when people say 'get the mechanical tdi', they either don't know what they are talking about, or they mean that I could build the pump.
I get it, so basically I would need the engine, as well as the wiring, so a junk yard swap would require more than just the block...I see!
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Ahhh, so when people say 'get the mechanical tdi', they either don't know what they are talking about, or they mean that I could build the pump.
They may not know what they are talking about, that happens alot...
They could be taking about the "Overland" mechanical TDI. Overland sells TD and TDI crate engines. Their mechanical TDI just has a 1.9TD pump bolted on. By most accounts they don't run as well as a "real" TDI.
If you want to do it yourself you have to build (or get someone to build) a pump for you. You can bolt on a TD pump but the camplate does not have the correct profile and the plunger is too small. It will run, but not as well as it should.
I get it, so basically I would need the engine, as well as the wiring, so a junk yard swap would require more than just the block...I see!
Yes. You would also want to use the TDI transmission. It has ratios better suited to the TDI. You need the cable shifter and the hydraulic clutch master cylinder to go with it. The wiring harness should plug right in but you also need the ECM and the guage cluster. I could keep going but, but as you can see a complete car would be the real answer...
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Yeah, so basically with a donor car i could have it done in the better part of a weekend...
hmm
I just need a donor car...it IS snowing, hehehehe!
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i could have it done in the better part of a weekend...
You're a better man than I... :D
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Well, my best ever was a honda del sol swap
from a d16y8
to a b16a2
on one saturday
But hondas are pretty easy.
Mind you...
hondas have like, 5 motor mounts, and vw's have, 3?
Hmmmmmm
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Yeah, so basically with a donor car i could have it done in the better part of a weekend...
!
considering the unconsidered, this would be an ultra-ambitious goal. Accomplish this, and I sweep off my hat and bow deeply in your direction! :D
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ps, i'll buy your old AAZ for overhaul!
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There's a continuing saga of a mechanical TDi conversion posted by one of the members of the UK Vanagon club. Interesting stuff - he has posted his "recipe" and his results to date up at this link, for any of you guys who might want to follow it:
http://p067.ezboard.com/fclub8090chatfrm6.showMessage?topicID=451.topic
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Dr Diesel!
PS...
NO!!!!!
If theres one thing I have learned about diesels... is that a spare engine is always a good thing to have!
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I'm pretty sure that a Cummins 4bt pump is a direct-injection design and rotates the same way. I'm sure you'd have to fiddle with it, and probably swap sprokets, and perhaps find a way to mount it, but after that it should run a TDI engine all-mechanical. I dont think it would be quite as difficult as everyone thinks it would be. I'd like to do it myself but I'm a long way from that point. ;)
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
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The 4BT is a direct injection engine, with a redline of 2750rpm... Much work needed on the governor and the injection (camplate) profile. It would have the required 20mm drive shaft but you would need to transplant the TDI camplate, head and rotor and the 1.6 or 1.9TD governor, advance piston and springs and the housing pressure regulator. It isn't difficult at all. You just need the correct parts and the know how to use them.
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I imagine the 4BT camplate is ramped way to high for what a 1.9 TDI can handle- the 4BT is what- 3.9 liters? Double a TDI! :) Were there any other Direct-injection 4-cylinder diesels in the US at all besides the 4BT?
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
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Were there any other Direct-injection 4-cylinder diesels in the US at all besides the 4BT?
Not many rotary pump ones. Pump bodies with the required 20mm shaft size aren't that hard to come by though. I have a couple kicking around. You won't ever find a bolt-on pump that will do the job. They will all require some massaging to work properly. Anyone who wants a mechanical TDI is going to have to get over their fear of injection pumps. I would suggest getting a junk pump and tearing into it. You'll discover that there are no dark secrets inside. Just remember the 3 most important things about injection pump work - clean, clean, clean.
BTW, The 4BT camplate lift may not be that far off. The highest power version of the rotary pump 4BTA is ~120hp. Don't let the displacement fool you. The profile would probably not be 2-stage injector friendly though...
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There's lots of CAV pumps around on 4 cylinder perkins in farm equipment.........................
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QuickTD; would you mind sharing the 0 460 xxx xxx Bosch part numbers for the 20 mm drive shaft pump(s) you have?? Also year model of the using vehicle if it is not too much trouble.
I need to know what bodies to look for in my travels, because I am in the earliest stages of a similar TDI-mechanical governed pump project.
Piper106
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The pump bodies that I have are diesel kiki. Made in japan under licence from bosch. The components have been completely interchangable in my experience. They are IDI pumps but have 20mm driveshafts, I'm not sure why. I'm not positive but I believe they came from ford/mazda truck 2.3L turbodiesels from the mid 80's.
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that is amazing! mechanical TDI on an older IDI... If only it was easy to construct (he used parts from 4 different vehicles??? lol) Would a TDI pump from '99 and up work on an older IDI? or would the sprockets not match up... ??? There's one selling on ebay for cheap (some dude made a mistake hehe)
Is this a direct injection pump???
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7944349513&category=33555
'92 injection pump... is this IDI or TDI???
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7945417176&category=33553#ebayphotohosting
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that is amazing! mechanical TDI on an older IDI... If only it was easy to construct (he used parts from 4 different vehicles??? lol) Would a TDI pump from '99 and up work on an older IDI? or would the sprockets not match up... ??? There's one selling on ebay for cheap (some dude made a mistake hehe)
Is this a direct injection pump???
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7944349513&category=33555
'92 injection pump... is this IDI or TDI???
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7945417176&category=33553#ebayphotohosting
Umm, I think you're trying to go the wrong way? The idea is to build a matched mechanical pump from older parts, to work on a newer TDI engine, in an older application thus eliminating the need for electronic control.
Both those pumps are from indirect injection motors. No VW TDI's (direct injection) in North America till 96 (Passat) and 97 (Jetta)
The Ford one rotates the wrong way too IIRC, as it drives off the rear of the camshaft.
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ah yes... i forgot that tdi compression is much less than IDI.... Oh well :)
Would there be any benefit to having a TDI pump on an old IDI? Maybe starting easier without glowplugs???