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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: TD_Bunny on May 06, 2007, 02:33:02 pm
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I have almost reached my financial limit with my car but i need some input on my newest problem. I started my car this morning, drove it about 150ft, got out to go inside my house, and noticed fluid coming down from my engine compartment. I checked my coolant resevoir and the fluid did not change level, the fluid is not black or dark whatsoever, my car doesnt have power steering, and is coming from the IP, front side of the engine. I think the fluid is fuel but i am not 100% sure yet. The fluid has an oil/fuel odor. What the heck could it possibly be? Are there gaskets or seals that can go bad in this area? What on the IP or fuel line could be leaking? I hope i can detect where it is leaking without pulling the IP out or does not cost me a lot of money to replace. I am already having to replace the clutch....but that is a another story.
While this may be a seperate issue, i also have oil dripping from above my oil pan near the water pump???? This leak is coming off of the lowest pulley housing and i have not determined where it is coming from.
I will have a chance to take a closer look in a couple of days but if anyone has had a similiar problem or extra insight before i dig in i would appreciate it. thanks
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yep... you have a leaking injection pump! you can usually get it sealed for around $250 at a shop (seals only.. no calibrations or anything else)
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If you are good mechanically you can rebuild the pump using this kit:
http://www.emiata.com/DieselVW/BoschRebuildKit.htm
I have no idea what is involved in replacing all the seals, but having done the governor mod, I can say the pump is a very complicated piece of machinery that you do not want to screw up.
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While this may be a seperate issue, i also have oil dripping from above my oil pan near the water pump???? This leak is coming off of the lowest pulley housing and i have not determined where it is coming from.
cam, IM or crank shaft seal from the sounds of it...
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Definitely sounds like a leaky injection pump, if you are near the financial limit of your car and not very mechanically inclined now would be the time to off load it, its fairly difficult to re seal a pump (and actually replace all the seals) and its also very easy to ruin the pump in the process, while you have it out might as well the do the timing belt as well.
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Well...crap.
There is only one ADS certified diesel shop where i live and the quote is around 650-850 dollars. And they said it could be more if more problem arise. Yeah dont think i can do that :(
Anyone want a rabbit? lol no i dont know yet but at least the engine is in great shape, other than the possible cam seal leak. Clutch and cam leak fixed, great running engine with low miles, how much can i even sell the car for without a IP? any suggestions?
Still might try to fix it but that is a crap load of money. They said they have gotten a lot more rebuilds due to the fuel and they confirmed this with Bosch. Sux to be me.
BTW, does anyone know if the 825 USD for a Giles pump includes calibration or would i still have to get the pump calibrated?
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with the engine running, see if one of the injector pipes is leaking, or the injector return loops....
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Yeah i am going to check much closer when i get home from work today. Just the day before i filled up and got 45mpg and had no apparent leaking issues. Start up the next day and have fluid coming down.
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Anyone want a rabbit?
Where do you live?
Clutch and cam leak fixed, great running engine with low miles, how much can i even sell the car for without a IP? any suggestions?
I saw a VW Quantum with a pump leak on Craigslist for $500. I was tempted to buy it.
Still might try to fix it but that is a crap load of money. They said they have gotten a lot more rebuilds due to the fuel and they confirmed this with Bosch.
Yup. Many, many people got bit by this. So far I've been ok, but I use Power Service fuel additive every fillup. It might help, it might not.
BTW, does anyone know if the 825 USD for a Giles pump includes calibration or would i still have to get the pump calibrated?
As far as I know, Giles does indeed calibrate it. You will still need to time it after getting it back in the car, though.
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If you search the threads here and the forums at www.vwdieselparts.com you should find at least one pointer to a guy on eBay who does resealing for a couple hundred... no one has complained about his work thus far so it might be an option to buy you a little time.
You can also get ahold of Giles and find out what he charges to do a simple reseal... no mods, no firebreathing... another possibility.
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Just got home and fired her up. No leaking at all????? Is there an overflow valve or something? The leak was not just a little drip either, but when i got a mechanic to look at it, and drive it, it never leaked. Guess i will just have to see over time if it does it again.
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I have a leak that comes and goes on my IP at the throttle shaft.... when it happens diesel pours out.... rev the throttle a couple of times and it goes away for weeks.
Sadly, problems that fix themselves almost always come back by themselves !!!
Vince
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How did revving up the engine stop the leaking? Not sure i understand how that stopped the leaking. Either way it does not sound like there is an overflow valve on the IP so i have some sort of problem with it and the pump has not been rebuilt since the change in fuel. Ill be looking at sending my pump over to Giles so i guess i will at least end up with a sweet pump.
On a positive i have had three mechanics say the engine sounds solid and they work on diesel engines.
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There is a teeny tiny hole in the OUT bolt on top of the pump. This hole helps regulate the internal pump fuel pressure. If a tiny speck of something clogs this hole, the pump will overpressurize and blow a seal. Here's my theory: a chunk of something is floating around in your pump. That one day it happened to cover up that OUT hole, but after you shut the engine off, it floated back down into the pump somewhere. Now it lurks, waiting for the most inopportune moment to clog and make your pump spew fuel everywhere again (and this time, the seals may not reseal themselves!).
I suggest you temporarily replace the OUT bolt with an ordinary fuel banjo bolt and then figure out a way to flush the pump out (don't try to drive the car without the proper OUT bolt installed, though). Maybe put a spare gasser in-tank transfer fuel pump in one bucket of diesel on the supply line, then route the return line into a different bucket. Let her rip and watch for crud in the second bucket.
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Yeah, I have no idea why it it suddenly leaks like Old Faithful and then stops for weeks, but there you have it and I've been able to stop it three times by blipping the throttle... right before my eyes.
I'm with Tylernt that it's likely an internal pressure thing... I have blown out the return line, the OUT banjo, etc... perhaps there is crap floating in there. It's coming apart to replace the throttle o-ring and throttle bushing anyway, so perhaps the mystery will be solved when I pop the lid.
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some people add things like two stroke oil to help swell their seals back up... that may be an option for you... simply add a litre of two stroke oil to a full tank of diesel... who knows??? also install some sort of can to catch the diesel...
1 litre of diesel can contaminate hundreds of thousands of litres of water... very very bad!!!
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I have been using Redline fuel catalyst which is suppose to help with things like this but apparently not this time.
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unfortunately, i have had the same thing. so i bought another pump from the wreckers ($350) and it lasted a whole month. this one leaked even worse. here is the deal. if you live in canada, the formulation of diesel has been changed to reduce the amount of sulphur content. this is good for the environment but bad for our pumps. the old nitrile seals do not react well with this improved formulation. for those who had there seals replaced with viton already they don't have to worry, but those of us who still had the old nitrile it is only a matter of time before they fail. i was losing 30% of my fuel when i had my pump resealed ($500). some of my friends have had varying degrees of success with fuel additives, but since i have not, i will not mention them here. i recommend you get your pump resealed by a injection shop. they warranty their work and will set the pump back up, all you have to do is adjust your idle. this a very good time to replace your water pump if has not been done in the last 150,000km and of course timing belt and tensioner pulley, and glow plugs, if it is not starting well when cold. good luck
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I have been using Redline fuel catalyst which is suppose to help with things like this but apparently not this time.
fuel catalyst won't do anything to help swell the seals back up... the old diesel fuel has aromatics that help swell up the seals... when the switch to ultra low sulphur diesel happened, those aromatics were removed along with the sulphur in the fuel. so the seals shrink to give you a nice leaky pump... i've never tried using two stroke oil, but it is a viable option if you need to drive the car for a bit longer... anything to try and swell those seals back up!
you should put your location in your profile :wink:
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So the general concensus here is, my pump is pretty much going...it is just a matter of time. And in case you dont notice jtanguay i put my location down :P
Its fun to have a rabbit TD (not a swap in) and i would hate for this to be the end of the road for me with it. The engine is solid and I am getting the clutch fixed next week. Looks like my wife (cant get by w/out this approval!!) is going to let me ship my pump off to Giles so i guess i will just keep truckin and go for the restoration goal. I am going to try the two stroke tomorrow and see if that will help for now. vortex is good, but i would have to say that here seems to be where most of you guys really lay down the support and info. I really appreciate it. thanks.
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I hate hate hate hate snake oil in a can (did I mention I hate snake oil in a can).... but one thing that is expressly designed to expand seals is "Power Steering Repair Fluid"... some fairly reputable companies make it, and I've always wondered if filling a pump with the stuff overnight might expand the seals enough to get you back on the road for a few miles in an emergency.
Never tried it, dunno how well the residual would burn, and I certainly don't recommend shortcuts if there is any other option, but it might be an interesting experiment some day if it's that or park the car ??
Again.. death to snake oil, but..... hmmmmm.....
Vince
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you know vincent... i was about " " <--- this close :lol: to trying power steering rack sealer... but then i just bought a new pump... found out it was going to be a ton of work to get it on, so i traded it for andy2's resealed mega fuel pump. (full fueling until 4500 rpm... although the idle is a bit weird...)
i wouldn't mind trying that stuff for the sake of science... i was going to try running a few bottles of that stuff in the tank, but maybe the best option would be to run it straight just like the diesel purge.
TD_Bunny you will NOT be dissapointed with a Giles pump. everyone reports getting insane mileage and power!
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Just thought i would give an update. I am 95% sure, $1500 later, i am going to fix a few things on the rabbit and give it another go. While the mechanic was underneath he noticed a lot of oil coming from the turbo inlet side... :evil: ...and recommended i get it fixed. So with the added problems i cant afford the 925 for a performance pump anymore. The shop will do the pump for around 750 and the turbo for about 4-500 depending on what is wrong. Plus, it turns out while i thought my clutch was slipping the real problem lies in the tranny itself. Mechanic checked the clutch components and everything is brand new (nice to hear at least) which leaves the tranny. I found a FF or FN code for 250 at a yard. I think i am about out of things that can break lol but with these things rebuilt and with the good engine it will at least be easier to sell for closer to what i paid for the car. I will post back next week with an update after everything is back in.
Cheers
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We do full pump resealed for about 350$ CAD if you send me your pump and we will ship you back the pump with 2 years waranty or 500$ CAD if you bring the car and we pull the pump resealed it with new seals and put it back with timing done.
This include new throttle shaft and bushing. All pieces are Bosch parts.
Shipping option usually take 2 days from the date we have the pump in hand. (Dicom Express shipping).