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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Cheesetoast on May 04, 2007, 05:43:21 am
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Ok, april 2, changed my water pump, got a peice of metal in the timing belt, messed up the head. Finally got the work done to change the head with a rebuilt oem factory head from vw, apparently the bottom end was ok.
Before this happened, the car was running wonderfully, lots of power etc.
Sounds ok, but is lacking some power, more so high end than low end after 3000rpm with it floored, it struggles to get to 4000-4500. is this a timing issue? there's no bubbles in the fuel line, all the air intake hoses are tight. Timing belt was changed, pully too, crank pully replaced (was starting to wear), new headgasket of course. Boost pressure is steady, oil pressure is steady, temps are ok.
i just want this godamn thing running properly again.
Is it safe to drive like this or will i break this head like the last one.
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is this a normal occurrence for new heads? do they require any kind of break in period?
did you time the motor yourself? what did you time it to?
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I agree that it does sound like a timing issue
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all the work was done by a veteran vw mechanic that i've been going to for years. he timed it
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fuel filter is 40,000km old. been using b5 religiously, from the same pump.
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fuel filter is 40,000km old. been using b5 religiously, from the same pump.
Did he change pump timing?
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Yeah, unfortunately it really does sound like timing... cam or pump.
Not that you want to give your mechanic the 3rd degree, but you'll want to ensure that he reset the cam timing *and* did the pump timing... sometimes I'll just politely say "how many millimeters did you set the pump to" and see what the response is.
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all the work was done by a veteran vw mechanic that i've been going to for years. he timed it
Your mechanic knows about pump timing numbers; a long ago when he swapped my injection pumps I specified the exact timing I wanted (1.05mm) and he did it using the correct tools/gauge. Otherwise he'll go with factory numbers or possibly advance it a bit.
I would ask him to:
1. Verify your timing (cam timing too)
2. Confirm whether or not your pump timing is the same compared to your last tune up that was done by him sometime last year (if I remember correctly).
Also post the pump timing value here if you want to keep the vwdiesel.net community from second-guessing your issue.
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IF its running fine in the lower RPM it is not your pump timing, its more likely that your cam timing is ever so slightly retarded, hard to say without hearing it.
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how long was it sitting for? I don't know the shelf life for bio but maybe it went bad? or maybe your fuel filter is partially clogged. Lots of possibilites
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changed the fuel filter just now, used a vacuum pump to prime it, started fine etc, a tiny bit better, but still not right.
High egts = not enough fuel from the research i did. Bringing it back to them first thing tomorrow morning, have them recheck the timings. I'll lose my *** if my pump has gone now too, visa and mastercard think i'm a drug dealer.
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I replaced my 1.9 with a new engine, and had a similar problem. Mine was a turbo charger that was hanging up. Perhaps due to my head being destroyed. It cleared up on a long hill, and has run perfectly after that.
If you had any wear on your crankshaft pulley I would guess that the grove on your crankshaft was worn. 935 racer has modified a number of cranks, so keep your eye on it closely. All new motors come with the tdi crank installed from factory on the 1.9 ide.
Make sure at your next timing belt to change the sprocket also to check on wear. No warning when they go.
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High egts = not enough fuel from the research i did.
Well your research was wrong then. Edit: Sorry I didn't mean to come across so harsh, was just typing fast and not thinking... :oops:
In a gas motor this is true in a diesel this is false. High Egt's in a diesel come from overfueling and or not enough timing. This is why you add a bigger turbo when you get a giles pump is to cool that extra fuel.
I'm gonna go with Dave here and say your cam / crank timing is out. As most cam locks for doing the timing in these engines are a bit loose and need to be shimed with feeler gauges. As well when you tension the belt it typicaly moves the crank a few degree's in relation to the cam and pump. This needs to be taken into account, so as to have the crank in the proper spot post tentioned not pre.
I know this from doing like 8 timing belts in a month when I had a bracket miss alineminet, that was eating belts. (only three belts all together, but it took lots of trys to figure out the problem) We got to the point that from hood closed to hood closed was like 15min. :roll: I can still do it in mysleep.
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I replaced my 1.9 with a new engine, and had a similar problem. Mine was a turbo charger that was hanging up. Perhaps due to my head being destroyed. It cleared up on a long hill, and has run perfectly after that.
If you had any wear on your crankshaft pulley I would guess that the grove on your crankshaft was worn. 935 racer has modified a number of cranks, so keep your eye on it closely. All new motors come with the tdi crank installed from factory on the 1.9 ide.
Make sure at your next timing belt to change the sprocket also to check on wear. No warning when they go.
the crank pully had a tiny bit of play, this was also replaced during these repairs, so no problem there. timing belt was done too, even though it waqs only 40,000km old, all the labor to get to it was already done. I'm going back to get it checked out
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When i had fuel filters clogging up this winter from too much bio my EGT's were sky high that was from not enough fuel. The pump didn't have enough pressure for the advance. It would idle fine but high load and high speed it would lose power and start to miss.
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timing was indeed off, pump was set a full 1mm in advance, and my advance lever wasn't working. Couldn't get the pump timed, he said somethign about the shaft inside could be twisted. Darn things going for rebuild/repair on monday. ***ty.
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libbybapa,
I never had a problem getting the timing dead on as I would just leave the crank a big retarded and it would pull it right into place, but as I read what you wrote carefully, yours is definatley an easier way to do it. I always slid the cam pully back on and then torqued it to spec, instead of just leaving it loose... ah well such as life. If I ever have to do it again this is what I will do.
Cheesetoast,
Sucks to hear about the pump, I hope you are using this as a good excuse to send it to Giles for some real power. :wink:
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a full 1 mm in advance??? um... that sounds really really really bad!!!
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Cheesetoast: I was once recommended to take my pump to a rebuilder near Kinetic Motorsports (for the life of me I can't remember the shop's name), but for less money I was able to get my pump completely overhauled and modified by Giles@Performance Fuel Injection LTD. Benefits are Biodiesel-resistant seals, better power/smoke ratio, and better fuel economy.
If you're quoted at least roughly $600 CAD for stock pump repair, you'll probably get better value for the money from Giles. He however has a few weeks waiting list so your car could be off the road unless you can get a spare pump (NA is fine) to get you by in the meantime...
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Cheesetoast: I was once recommended to take my pump to a rebuilder near Kinetic Motorsports (for the life of me I can't remember the shop's name), but for less money I was able to get my pump completely overhauled and modified by Giles@Performance Fuel Injection LTD. Benefits are Biodiesel-resistant seals, better power/smoke ratio, and better fuel economy.
If you're quoted at least roughly $600 CAD for stock pump repair, you'll probably get better value for the money from Giles. He however has a few weeks waiting list so your car could be off the road unless you can get a spare pump (NA is fine) to get you by in the meantime...
Mark the place is NW fuel injection. :wink:
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Cheesetoast: I was once recommended to take my pump to a rebuilder near Kinetic Motorsports (for the life of me I can't remember the shop's name), but for less money I was able to get my pump completely overhauled and modified by Giles@Performance Fuel Injection LTD. Benefits are Biodiesel-resistant seals, better power/smoke ratio, and better fuel economy.
If you're quoted at least roughly $600 CAD for stock pump repair, you'll probably get better value for the money from Giles. He however has a few weeks waiting list so your car could be off the road unless you can get a spare pump (NA is fine) to get you by in the meantime...
yes, giles does it for $900-$950 i beleive, but apparently my pump has more than enough flow for my setup, i can get smoke anywhere in the rpm, and the fueling isn't even turned up all the way, it's still got some ways to go. I may upgrade the turbo in the future but i'm not going to be running higher than 20 psi, i don't want this engine falling apart, this daily driver has to be reliable.
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i was there when he was trying to time it. he put the pump timing gauge into the pump, took off the timing belt cover, loosened the pump pully, and he said when you move the pump physically forward and backwards, the gauge is supposed to move quite a bit, it barely moved at all.
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I read the thread twice to see if I missed something, and I still don’t understand the problem (timing?,pump?)as it is being described! But I’m pretty sure you are saying your mechanic either set the timing wrong (pump and or motor), and or missed a serious problem with the pump(bent shaft... sounds kinda fishey to me!!), when he let you have the car back the first time! If this is a correct reading of your situation, then you really should get another opinion before a costly pump overhaul. Regards
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so maybe if his gauge is binding inside the pump, which would describe what you are saying... you're doing a pump rebuild??? sounds to me like this guy is just trying to get some cash from you...
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a full 1 mm in advance??? um... that sounds really really really bad!!!
What's wrong with 1 mm? Don't some people run up to 1.05?
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a full 1 mm in advance??? um... that sounds really really really bad!!!
What's wrong with 1 mm? Don't some people run up to 1.05?
well 1mm in advance is pretty bad... 0.05mm in advance is within spec...
1mm in advance is like setting it 2.0mm... :shock:
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I know the mechanic working on his car, he doesn't have internal pump knowledge. If the main drive shaft was bent the pump would no operate at all, simple as that, if the car was advanced 1mm it wouldn't run worth *** if it even did run. I'm not saying there isn't some sort of a problem with your pump, there very well could be, but with the info presented the problem seems to be more related to the tools/mechanic.
Also whats with he comment about an advance lever? If he talking about the cold start advance lever on the back of the pump you don't even need that thing, it doesn't really get cold enough here to need the extra couple degrees of dynamic advance on a cold start.
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Cheesetoast: I was once recommended to take my pump to a rebuilder near Kinetic Motorsports (for the life of me I can't remember the shop's name), but for less money I was able to get my pump completely overhauled and modified by Giles@Performance Fuel Injection LTD. Benefits are Biodiesel-resistant seals, better power/smoke ratio, and better fuel economy.
If you're quoted at least roughly $600 CAD for stock pump repair, you'll probably get better value for the money from Giles. He however has a few weeks waiting list so your car could be off the road unless you can get a spare pump (NA is fine) to get you by in the meantime...
yes, giles does it for $900-$950 i beleive, but apparently my pump has more than enough flow for my setup, i can get smoke anywhere in the rpm, and the fueling isn't even turned up all the way, it's still got some ways to go. I may upgrade the turbo in the future but i'm not going to be running higher than 20 psi, i don't want this engine falling apart, this daily driver has to be reliable.
There is a TON more that goes into that pump then adding some more fuel, the timing mods that he does, the extra gain he adds to the pump ect... If you had him build you a performance pump that flowed the same amount of fuel as you do now, it would still be night and day.
Look at the NA pumps that he builds, and the extra power they get there, its not like they can just magicly add extra air by turning up the boost to burn more fuel...
But hey its your money, do what ever you want with it.
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hmmm seems like everyone is ganging up a little bit on cheesetoast... but seriously man... ditch this mechanic and get a giles pump STAT! :twisted:
can an engine seriously run at 2.0mm timing??? like wtf... i personally would imagine cool egt's, but severely overheating pistons/head/rings??? mainly because the combustion process would 'linger' inside of the cylinder that much longer...
any other theory's? do we need to make a poll to see how many people think cheesetoast should send his pump to Giles? :lol:
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I also don't think anyone is ganging up on cheesetoast, I think they are trying to help him out.
Andrew
that's what i like about this board!
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I know the mechanic working on his car, he doesn't have internal pump knowledge.
I can confirm that (no offense intended to anyone); a few years ago I brought one of my pumps to him and wanted to get one of the external o-ring seals replaced (the size of a pencil eraser) where the timing advance lever attaches to. I was hoping to do it myself w/ his supervision, but he advised that I take the pump to a pump shop. DVST8R and I did it instead, and I learned a bit from it.
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No one is ganging up on anyone here I don't think, but you are being fed bull *** from your mechanic, go find another (and get a Giles pump while you are at it :twisted: )