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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Black Smokin' Diesel on May 03, 2007, 03:53:23 pm

Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: Black Smokin' Diesel on May 03, 2007, 03:53:23 pm: So I bought a set of mercedes injectors said to be from a turbo engine (so they should be 155bar units). As it turns out, it's stamped 135bar on the injector bodies.

They have about 70k on them and look brand new. I'd like to know if I can use them on my 1.6TD. TD injectors are rated 155bar.
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: jtanguay on May 03, 2007, 04:58:22 pm: you could.. you might see a bit more smoke though for the extra fuel and less pressure. if the nozzles have 70k km's you might want to consider fresh nozzles...
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: saurkraut on May 03, 2007, 05:28:27 pm: I've run the VW NA 135 bar injectors in my 1.6TD when my source was temporarly out of new injectors.

The low end was smoother, and the top end was noticeably less.

Being its the same nozzle and pintle, just thicker shims, what I was feeling in performance terms was retarded timing.

With those Mercedes injectors, you'll be getting more fruel, and retarded timing.

Might want to get them reshimmed to 155 bar.
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: Black Smokin' Diesel on May 03, 2007, 05:54:54 pm: How much would a re-shim be?
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: jtanguay on May 03, 2007, 06:40:58 pm: problem is.. will the springs handle the extra pressure? smog said that n/a springs can bind...

wouldn't decreased break pressure advance the timing? since they open earlier because the pressure is reached sooner?
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: Black Smokin' Diesel on May 03, 2007, 10:11:35 pm: Quote from: "libbybapa"
OR, you can set the injection timing to the n/a spec and end up with better flow and reduced pumping losses.

Andrew

Now that's the kind of option my budget can deal with. I'll get everything back together and have it timed by a shop (unless I can find someone local to me with proper equipement).

Thanks a lot guys!

One last question, how the hell do you make the pre-combustion chambers stick to the head when re-installing it? Two of them just keep sliding out :?
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: RabbitJockey on May 03, 2007, 10:20:41 pm: put some grease on them or something?
Title: .....
Post by: Darkness_is_spreading on May 03, 2007, 10:57:30 pm: I go no meng maybe some tape
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: jimfoo on May 04, 2007, 01:55:06 am: And I bought a new head because the shop told me it was toast since one of mine would fall out? :evil: Guess I have a spare head now.
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: jtanguay on May 04, 2007, 10:00:38 am: Quote from: "jimfoo"
And I bought a new head because the shop told me it was toast since one of mine would fall out? :evil: Guess I have a spare head now.

maybe time for a new shop? :lol:
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: jimfoo on May 04, 2007, 10:12:00 am: This is supposed to be THE head shop in Denver. Maybe he doesn't do many VW Diesels. Well, since the IDI wasn't imported here, I can bet on it.
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: Black Smokin' Diesel on May 04, 2007, 03:22:25 pm: Quote from: "libbybapa"
Peen the edge in 3 places.

Not sure I understand what you mean.
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: zukgod1 on May 04, 2007, 03:57:36 pm: Remove pre cup, take center punch and make a mark on the inside of the head where the pre cup sits, hit the side of the area where the precup is supose to sit against. Do this on at least 3 opposing angles and then the precup will need to be taped in place to get it in.
Another term would be swedging. What your doing is deforming the metal in small areas around the precup so the deformed (swedged) metal will cause friction on the sides of the precup. This is inside the head not on the out side/ cumbustion chamber area. Although that may work as well.

Does that make sense at all?

dan
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: Black Smokin' Diesel on May 04, 2007, 05:43:21 pm: Quote from: "zukgod1"
Remove pre cup, take center punch and make a mark on the inside of the head where the pre cup sits, hit the side of the area where the precup is supose to sit against. Do this on at least 3 opposing angles and then the precup will need to be taped in place to get it in.
Another term would be swedging. What your doing is deforming the metal in small areas around the precup so the deformed (swedged) metal will cause friction on the sides of the precup. This is inside the head not on the out side/ cumbustion chamber area. Although that may work as well.

Does that make sense at all?

dan

Yes is makes sense :D Thanks a lot!
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: carrizog60 on May 05, 2007, 03:23:36 pm: sorry to use your topic but i also have a question related diesel injectors.

i heard about mercedes injectors...what are the beneits of replace by merc ones? wont the car make more smoke at low rpm?

i saw this:

Edited by moderator (reduced URL size):
EBAY LINK (http://cgi.ebay.de/Einspritzduese-VAG-VW-z-B-T3-Golf-uva-DN0SD297-f-Poel_W0QQitemZ200106901081QQihZ010QQcategoryZ61258QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

whats is that he his selling?he also have the same kits for vw 1.6 and i am in need of injectors freshen up.
should i go for it?
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: Black Smokin' Diesel on May 06, 2007, 12:31:26 pm: Quote from: "carrizog60"
whats is that he his selling?he also have the same kits for vw 1.6 and i am in need of injectors freshen up.
should i go for it?

Seems to me that they are generic nozzles, probably aftermarket ones. I'd avoid and find genuine Bosch nozzles.

Merc injectors have more flow than vw injectors. I've heard on a 60% increase but I could be wrong. If you're not modding the engine stick with VW nozzles, they are cheaper than mercedes nozzles.
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: carrizog60 on May 06, 2007, 02:56:34 pm: i need to do something to the injectors, at cold strats the car makes a lot of noise...
also at the last visit to the pump shop to clean the injectors they told me that they were at the end of they´re life...
what do i need to rebuild them?
would this be enough?

edited by moderator: shortened URL:
EBAY LINK (http://tinyurl.com/2o3ycz)

edit:i have more fuel,reshaped lda pin,kkk24 at 2bar at 4500rpm(closed WG) and planing on doing larger exhaust and governor mod.
the kit that are in the links are the same price so should i go for any of them?
sorry for all the Q... :oops:
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: 935racer on May 06, 2007, 11:49:36 pm: I do what Andrew is explaining, with the precup out I make 4 punches around the diameter of the precup chamber, than I place the precup in its chamber and do another 4 offset from the 4 holes I just made, this should tighten it up plenty :D
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: carrizog60 on May 07, 2007, 06:37:15 am: sorry... :oops:

what about my question?

edit:how can i make the urls smaller?
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: carrizog60 on May 07, 2007, 04:57:24 pm: thanks to the mods,last time long urls for me 8)

what about the kit in the ebay page?
is all that is needed to freshen my gtd a bit?plug and play right?

i would appreciate the help as i am in nedd of doing this and this kit is a nice find for me(i am from portugal)
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: zukgod1 on May 07, 2007, 05:50:05 pm: black smokin' diesel answered your question
Seems to me that they are generic nozzles, probably aftermarket ones. I'd avoid and find genuine Bosch nozzles.

Merc injectors have more flow than vw injectors. I've heard on a 60% increase but I could be wrong. If you're not modding the engine stick with VW nozzles, they are cheaper than mercedes nozzles.
Title: 135bar instead of 155bar injectors in a 1.6TD?
Post by: carrizog60 on May 08, 2007, 02:42:28 am: i dont mind os using aftermarket nozzles if they last long as well.
as anyone used some?
suposing i would buy,the kit as everithing right?