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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Mikeyworks on May 23, 2004, 07:37:35 pm

Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: Mikeyworks on May 23, 2004, 07:37:35 pm
I need to swap out an injector or two in my new truck
( shameless plug (http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=78)), and I will have to replace the heat shields.   Is  068130219  (http://www.impexfap.com/partlist.cfm?getpart=4693&subcategory=4153#part4693) the right part number?

Also, what's the recommended tool (socket type, depth) for removing the injector without cracking the head?


Thanks bunches,
Mikey[/url]
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: QuickTD on May 23, 2004, 09:30:53 pm
Your part number is correct.

 I would recommend a "T" style breaker bar and a 27mm deep socket for removing injectors. Centre the handle and apply even pressure to both ends. Not all 27mm deep sockets will fit, you might have to shop around. 1-1/16" sockets also fit fine and may be easier to find.

 Pulling a ratchet or breaker bar toward the front of the engine bay when removing injectors is the best way to bust a head. If you use a conventional breaker bar or ratchet, pull only toward the sides of the car and support the ratchet head with your free hand. Try to use the shortest extensions possible, this will help avoid undue leverage on the injector boss. Plan ahead and squirt the injectors with a good penetrant a couple of days prior to removing them.
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: fspGTD on May 24, 2004, 11:12:12 pm
Make sure your socket doesn't bind on the head casting.  It needs to be thin-wall enough for this.  If it's not, you can sacrifice a socket and grind it down.  You need the hex-shaped wrenching slots to go in deep into the socket.  Some deepwells aren't very deep at all before they start getting narrow.

I usually use some anti-seize on the injector threads too.
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: BlackTieTD on May 25, 2004, 06:22:21 am
for socket, i searched around for a 27mm deep socket, with thin walls. the best i could find was one for about $30 and the walls were too thick.

so i just bought an $8 socket from canadian tire.. it was their standard 1 1/16" deep socket, works perfect for 1/4 the cost of anything else i could find. you don't have canadian tire down there... but try the major tool stores. the brand on mine is 'mastercraft'... canadian tire brand.
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: Mikeyworks on May 26, 2004, 05:43:44 pm
I bought two different types of 1 1/16" sockets at my local Autozone.  One is actually for an O2 sensor. It is taller/deeper than the standard 1 1/16 deep socket.

However, both have the same problem, neither of them fit over the return lines on the injector head. I will sacrifice the deeper of the two and grind down the inside. In fact, I even started trying, to no avail. My grinder doesn't seem to be cutting the mustard. They are case hardened.

What do you recommend for thinning down the walls?  Is there a carbide type tip that fits on my Dremel tool?

Thanks,
Mikey
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: BlackTieTD on May 27, 2004, 07:34:59 am
damn, was afriad of that. i think dr. diesel had this same problem. the $8 socket i got from canadian tire works perfectly, no grinding... you'd almost be better off ordering a mastercraft socket and shipping it there for the amount of hassle it seems to be causing you.  :?
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: fspGTD on May 27, 2004, 10:42:29 am
I have ground the OD of a socket that was too fat using a bench grinder,  but grinding the ID sounds very difficult.

That's way you need to find a socket that has the internal (12-pt or hex-shaped) wrenching surfaces extending deep inside it.  On many deepwell sockets the wrenching surfaces don't extend very far inside, it narrows down to a small hole (that a long stud would fit into, but not the nut or in our cases, a deep/fat injector.)

I had to get one especially big to get the 1.9lTD 2-stage injectors to fit deeply into them (these injectors are particularly fat and long).  I found an air impact socket that had deep enough internal wrenching surfaces, but it's OD was too fat, and interfered with the outer wall of the cylinder head.  So I ground down the OD and it works...

I used a craftsman 27mm deepwell socket, fits great - no grinding required, over a standard 1-stage IDI injector.  It just wasn't deep enough through for the 2-stage injectors.

Good luck
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: Mikeyworks on May 27, 2004, 12:27:37 pm
Also, to avoid the tendancy to break the injector boss...could I use my impact wrench to REMOVE the injector?  I would set it at the lowest setting, but that would remove the angular or tangential stress on the boss, right?

I will see what I can do on this socket this afternoon.

Mikey
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: subsonic on March 25, 2007, 07:17:51 am
I am also removing my injectors.  I have two heads, 1.9 and 1.6 already off the blocks.  they came that way.  Any special concerns about pulling these? I may go with the impact to put even torque on it. in out in out etc.   I am guessing I will need a helper too hold the head.  I tried my 27mm wrench but got nowhere.  I am going to start looking for the sockets at the store.  Any updates to this link on a good socket for the 1.9 injector?  Will, if my wife goes out, putting the head in the oven to warm it up help?  I can also shoot some penetrating fluid up into the chamber from the bottom. Any thoughts?
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: burn_your_money on March 25, 2007, 07:36:54 am
I bought a 27mm deep impact socket from canadian tire. It cost $12 or something like that. Being an impact I needed to bust out the bench grinder and grind it down. I think I need to grind it a bit more though because I bent a couple of the return barbs.
I ended up using my electirc impact because I couldn't get 2 of the injectors free with my 18" breaker bar. Forward a very small bit, then backwards. I used the forwards-backwards method with the breaker bar as well, always pushing perpendicular to the cam axis.
I warmed the engine to operating temps first though which definitly makes it easier.

Once I did use my 1 1/6 wrench to remove the injectors, I have the pump removed though. It was a cold head and I had no problems.

For removing the heat sheild just crank the engine over and they'll pop out (usually). You can also screw a wood screw into the hole in them and use a slide hammer to remove them, or just stick a small screwdriver in the hole and pry it out
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: jimfoo on March 25, 2007, 07:38:20 am
I got all mine out just fine with a 1 1/16" box wrench. No need to worry about getting a deep enough one, or the return fittings that way. :)
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: subsonic on March 25, 2007, 07:52:45 am
Since the head is off, I am going to haul it with me to the store  :idea:
I was thinking I would need to buy 5 or 6 different ones to try and then return a bunch.    I tried my box wrench but it was too fat too get down.  I will haul this down to sears and try the 27mm and the 1 1/16".  Andrew did you use it on a 1.6 or a 1.9?

Jim
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: jimfoo on March 25, 2007, 08:54:43 am
One thing about my wrench is that it would only fit on over a limited angle, but that was enough to break them free. My heat shields just fell right out,  but my engine was a fairly low mileage one.
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: subsonic on March 25, 2007, 12:11:45 pm
:x  WTF!  I just spent 2 1/2 hours going from store to store trying all the damn 27mm and 1 1/16 deep well sockets at home depot, sears, auto zone, VIP auto parts, PEP boys, and napa. Not one of these POS sockets was deep enough. :evil:   That leaves me with using my wrench with only a partial grip and a BIG ASS LEVER.  ***, I even tried bending in the injector cooling tabs a bit. no luck.  GRRRRRR....!  Who has a socket that will work on the 1.9td injector they want to loan me, or knows where they can get one that works for sure.  I will buy it.

Jim
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: jimfoo on March 25, 2007, 09:05:17 pm
Can you weld? You could buy 2 sockets, cut one in half and weld it onto the other one.
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: bryankwalton on March 26, 2007, 06:50:37 am
Quote from: subsonic
Who has a socket that will work on the 1.9td injector they want to loan me, or knows where they can get one that works for sure.  I will buy it.


I just recently purchased this socket from Snap-On. http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=68171&group_ID=1326 I can't vouch for it yet (I'm replacing my injectors this coming weekend).  I purchased it for 1.6 N/A injectors and don't know how it would work on 1.9td injectors.  But, it's very long and was designed specifically for VW diesel injectors.  Hope this helps.
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: burn_your_money on March 26, 2007, 07:48:51 am
I'll try mine on a 1.9td injector and if it works I'll ship it to you. It'll take 2 weeks to get there though. It's from canadian tire so you can't get it down there
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: subsonic on March 26, 2007, 06:48:33 pm
Hey Tyler and Bryan,
any luck on the 1.9 injectors?  Some that I checked would have worked for sure on the 1.6, but were just to damn short for the 1.9.  I would like to get these off so I can bring them down and have a set of these suppossed super nozzles put in.  Will have more info on those tomorrow.

Thanks,, Jim
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: subsonic on March 26, 2007, 06:53:46 pm
Quote from: jimfoo
Can you weld? You could buy 2 sockets, cut one in half and weld it onto the other one.


That would fit for sure!  I dont know how to weld, but I'm not afraid to put the juice and molten metal to it.  I would just need a welder :)
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: insdtanoodles on March 26, 2007, 06:59:11 pm
Quote from: subsonic
Quote from: jimfoo
Can you weld? You could buy 2 sockets, cut one in half and weld it onto the other one.


That would fit for sure!  I dont know how to weld, but I'm not afraid to put the juice and molten metal to it.  I would just need a welder :)


have access to a lathe? I just got the deepest socket I could and bored out the inside of the socket at the back untill it fit over the injector.
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: burn_your_money on March 26, 2007, 10:41:38 pm
sorry I forgot to check when I was at the garage today, I'll try and remember for tomorrow
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: bryankwalton on March 27, 2007, 12:11:22 pm
Quote from: subsonic
Hey Tyler and Bryan,
any luck on the 1.9 injectors?  Some that I checked would have worked for sure on the 1.6, but were just to damn short for the 1.9.


Sorry.  I don't have access to any 1.9 injectors to check it out for you.
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: subsonic on May 25, 2007, 01:06:04 pm
AH HA!  There is more than one way to skin a cat.  After repeated attempts to find a socket deep enough to remove my 1.9td injector bodies I had almost given up.
 :idea:  What if I unsrew the top half first :shock:  :?:
Jezz freakin louise  it came right off.  Look at that little 27mm piece that is left over.  Oh my, my normal socket slips right on!  Yeah baby!!!
Done!!
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: subsonic on May 25, 2007, 07:48:07 pm
Hey! Don't rain on my parade here!  I am basking in my yankee ingenuity :lol:
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: somolovitch3 on May 29, 2007, 04:59:30 am
Well now that he's got it apart, he won't have to lug the head around to find a GOOD socket!
Way to go dude! :idea:  :mrgreen:
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: yankeejim on May 29, 2007, 11:55:08 am
www.partsplaceinc.com claims to have the correct socket for $9.95.
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: tylernt on May 29, 2007, 05:59:37 pm
I got my socket from Sears... came in a set of 12pt deep sockets. Only bent one of the return barbs a little.
Title: injector heat shields and injector removal
Post by: burn_your_money on May 29, 2007, 08:12:13 pm
I checked all the parts stores etc up here except for sears. No one had anything. You could remove the pump and use a wrench if you get desprite. That's how I did it on my 1.6 the first time around.

I was going to offer to buy regular deep sockets and have one of my machinist buddies bore them out for you, but I won't be able to do it for less the $10