VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: Ozca on April 25, 2007, 03:51:21 am
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Just visited "Lemonaide" to read their updates re new refined diesel fuels
coming soon...interesting :shock:
http://www.lemonaidcars.com/updates.html#diesel
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lol they don't recommend the 2007 diesels... bosch pwns them!!! simply prawned! :roll: :lol:
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What I find hilarious is the section on hybrids. Exactly why diesel technology is the only current practical choice in my opinion.
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. bosch pwns them!!! simply prawned! :roll: :lol:
I must have been asleep during this class. Can someone explain to me what
pwns and prawned means?
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Or we could just wait on that new car purchase until the ethanol/gasoline or ethanol engines are available here in the next decade or so. :lol:
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new car purchase
:? explain yourself.
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First off, my 97 Jetta is the newest car I have owned. :lol:
The article says that if diesel still "lights your fire" then wait for the 2008 engines. Then goes on to sing the praises of the ethanol engines which they think might be available here in a decade or so. I figure we can just put off buying that new car for a decade, and keep our beloved diesels on the road.
Heck, in a decade, they might just realize that diesel is the ONLY way to go. :twisted:
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man, i personally don't understand all the debate. just talk to any electric hybrid owner (that doesn't have his head straight up his ass) about the ACTUAL milage they get. its not as spectacular as you might think. we've had passenger diesels through VW since 1976 IIRC, that's 30+ years ago! i fill my tank like once a month if that for city driving. sure the new electronically-controlled diesels do even better for economy, but there is a lot to be said about just a simple IDI diesel. just ask this guy (http://www.hondasucks.ca). he ended up switching over to a mkIV TDI golf by the way.
the canadian military is switching over to a single fuel fleet... diesel. not sure about the muricans. i think that's a pretty good indication about how viable they think hybrids are. they are great if trendy is your thing. if you want results, diesel baby.
i sure hope ethanol takes off for all the diesel-haters out there. it works in brazil when politics aren't in the way. i can't see my parents driving diesels... but they'd drive an ethanol car. i'm just not holding my breath on the ethanol deal... i don't see the north american governments pushing it hard enough to make it happen large-scale.
and no need to mention BIO DIESEL :lol:
well maybe i should. i know of just as many bio diesel stations locally that have closed as remain open. i can't get bio diesel from the pump locally, despite my 25 year old car being able to run on it no problems. what's the deal....
why wait the claimed 10 years for ethanol to take off in north america when diesel cars that run on bio diesel, are available NOW and widespread??
its gotta be the diesel haters......
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I'm with you BlackTie. I guess I need a font for sarcasm. Give me a diesel anyday.
And as for the hybrids, a friend of mine has one and get less mileage than I do. And his warranty is about to run out and he is worried that the costs of repairs will be HUGE.
I can't see my folks driving a diesel either (except Dad's farm tractor) or my wife (not patient enought o wait for the glow plugs) but I would love to see nothing but.
And for what it's worth, I think the smell of diesel fuel and diesel exhaust should be made into colognes.
BlackTie, you edited while I was typing, so I'll add a bit here too. Bio diesel is just starting to become available around here. One locally owned fuel company is advertising it, but when I was at a couple of their stations, they told me it is not here yet or that it is just a cleaner diesel, not actually bio diesel. False advertising? Yep, you bet. But maybe it will show up sooner or later. And when it does, I might just convert my AAZ to run on it.
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we had some 'bio diesel' places open up around here too about 2 yrs ago. i was thinking hey now we might make some progress on this front, but half of them have closed or no longer offer bio diesel. like you said, its often unclear exactly what type of fuel they are selling... cleaner diesel, bio diesel... you ask at the counter and they have no clue whats goin on. seems like there needs to be better regulation, better policies and public awareness. show me where to get clean fuel, i'll pay more, i don't care my car is just THAT EFFICIENT :lol:
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Jan 1 2007 was the date mandated by the epa for cleaner on highway diesels. In order to do this manufacturers have had to come up with all sorts of new ways to get the engine to run cleaner.
One of the methods was a diesel particulate filter with a regeneration cycle. The filter captures particles, when it gets clogged enough the engine is programmed to "dump" fuel into the exhaust to raise temperature enough to burn it off.
http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/17466
Ok, so that video is of a truck who's regen cycle isn't exactly operating correctly...
But exhaust temperatures are quite high when it does occur.
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BlackTie, I agree.
As for clean fuel, a friend of mine gave me some good advice when I bought my diesel last summer....buy your fuel where the truckers do. If they buy it there, they are usually going through a good volume of fuel, so less chance of dirty/contaminated fuel.
One fuel company has been advertising "clean diesel" for over a year now, but from what I have been able to find out, it's the same low sulpher stuff everyone else is selling. And I agree, the ones at the counter don't know what they are selling, and to call the companies directly is usually a waste of time.
But we will never switch over completely to something efficient like diesel.....the big oil companies can't make enough money if we are all getting 45 - 50 mpg out of our SUVs. :lol:
It kills me to drive our other vehicle...a 97 GMC Jimmy. We use it to tow our camper. It would be so much nicer as a diesel. Not to mention more efficient.
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But we will never switch over completely to something efficient like diesel.....the big oil companies can't make enough money if we are all getting 45 - 50 mpg out of our SUVs.
agreed. the only way around this is if the government mandates it... and that will never happen with existing circumstances. hopefully in the coming years the mindset of those in power will shift from profit for the corporations to the sustainability of the environment and our privilaged lifestyles.
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Yeah, but we all know how much pull the oil companies have on the governments.......way too much. :evil:
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. bosch pwns them!!! simply prawned! :roll: :lol:
I must have been asleep during this class. Can someone explain to me what
pwns and prawned means?
pwns = owns and no idea what prawned means
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Just visited "Lemonaide" to read their updates re new refined diesel fuels
coming soon...interesting :shock:
http://www.lemonaidcars.com/updates.html#diesel
Yawn,....
Just bare in mind that they were the same people that highly recommended the Ford Pinto and the Chevy Citation back in the day,..... :roll: :lol:
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I think Alchohol fuel here in the US will be a bust. Brazil can grow sugar cain. You put yeast in sugar, you get alchohol. Distil it and you have somthing that will burn
You put sugar in corn, you get squat. Corn has to be "malted" to convert the starch to sugar. Then and only then can you begin the fermenting process. The cost of malting is probably the catch
Maybe if we tried sugar beets are something else that made sugar instead of starch, we'd have something like Brazil.
I'm rooting for diesel. I think europe is doing rape seed oil, sounds nasty, but I think it has a high oil yeild.
I also hold out hope for the Fischer-Tropsch process: Coal to Diesel. Courtesy of the Third Reich.
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the largest yield per acre of land would have to be algae... make biodiesel from that!
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agreed. the only way around this is if the government mandates it... and that will never happen with existing circumstances. hopefully in the coming years the mindset of those in power will shift from profit for the corporations to the sustainability of the environment and our privilaged lifestyles.
That is totally the wrong answer. Government mandates rarely work and just piss everyone off. The way to do it is for people to actually pay attention to what they are buying & vote with your pocketbook. For instance, Jetta Fan gripes about driving his gas engined Jimmy, quit whining & replace it ... there are some on ebay that went for under $4k. :P
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i would also like to point out that ethanol fuels release more CO2 into the atmosphere than diesel and gasoline. gasoline engines get poor economy when burning ethanol.
just my 2 cents... GO DIESEL!
lol and about prawn...
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4940/prawnor2.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9BWuLKGScY
http://www.hondasucks.ca
ah man... stupid honda insight! why won't they just learn to go diesel? :roll:
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Don't know much about ethanol, but as a result of this new fuel concept there is a lot of controversy over the price increase of corn and food products made from it.
As to bio-diesel use, last year I rented a new Fiat Motorhome with a 4 cyl turbo diesel in Germany and the rental company stipulated NOT to use any bio-diesel in this unit :!:
I assume that policy was related to the lack of proper lubricating properties of bio-diesel and subsequent warranty claims.
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well as i have already stated, algae would be the most profitable solution to the biodiesel question... corn, etc.. takes way too much space to create such little yield... algae could be harvested year long here in Canada, as long as temperatures are controlled (geothermal possibly???)
http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html good information here!
the rental company probably said no to the biodiesel since it isn't really regulated... i guess it's like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get :lol:
and if the manufacturer specifically states not to use biodiesel, then there could be a good reason for it... or just because of influence from oil companies :lol:
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MaxHedrm, I would love to replace it, but it is my wife's "daily" driver. She doesn't like the full size trucks (our Jimmy is the S15 size with a 4.3L). I would just like to have a diesel option on more vehicles, not just full size trucks and VW cars.
If the governments really do want to go green, why not stipulate that the car manufacturers offer diesel engine options. After all, they set the gas mileage and emission limits for vehicles.
If I could, I would do a swap on the Jimmy and go diesel.
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According to the Urban Dictionary:
1. prawned
A bastardization of pwned, which was derived from the word owned. The meaning remains throughout the words, as being defeated, destroyed or verbally raped in some way. Can also be written as "prawnz0red".
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The US military is going single fuel too: Diesel. I believe all the NATO countries are standardizing to all-diesel fleets, to allow for greater ability to share supply burdens without a huge hassle.
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if they're all switching to diesel, they might as well start using bypass filters like fs2500, or even the new amsoil bypass filter that seems to be working great...
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Further to "prawned".
Down Under in Aussie they say,
"Don't come the raw prawn with me!",
meaning: "Don't try to put one over me!
:lol:
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It's all about education, and making fun of people who think when they get 400 kms for a 45L tank is good :roll: At 400 kms my car is usually between 5/8-3/4 of a tank.
I plan to keep my car for quite a while, at least my engine. I can always just throw it in a truck or whatever I want. It's alot of work but no one else is making any trucks/vehicles that I want to buy
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i would also like to point out that ethanol fuels release more CO2 into the atmosphere than diesel and gasoline. gasoline engines get poor economy when burning ethanol.
True, but the theory is that this CO2 is just the CO2 that is being pulled out of the air as the corn/sugar cane/etc is growing, whereas petro sources are being pumped up from under ground & came from plants that captured it long ago. So, for ethanol there is a net of zero CO2 emission. Like a really inefficient solar cell. :wink:
MaxHedrm, I would love to replace it, but it is my wife's "daily" driver. She doesn't like the full size trucks (our Jimmy is the S15 size with a 4.3L). I would just like to have a diesel option on more vehicles, not just full size trucks and VW cars.
If the governments really do want to go green, why not stipulate that the car manufacturers offer diesel engine options. After all, they set the gas mileage and emission limits for vehicles.
If I could, I would do a swap on the Jimmy and go diesel.
Ahhh .. I was thinking full size. In that case you might have to move off the continent. :wink: There were rumors of a Jeep (Liberty maybe?) getting an MB diesel soon, but I haven't heard much about it lately. That might be an option soon, so the darkness is spreading, so to speak.
Government mandating it still isn't the solution. But then I'm a big ol' free market libertarian type. :)
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i think people should give up trying to make economical gasoline engines and start focusing on quieter more powerful diesel... which i know this is actually happening, but i am talking about the everyday person. imo gasoline engines get the job done very well and can make tons of power blah blah blah, but to me they're just over complicated motors when i diesel manages everything with just the fuel gas controls speed with air flow then hast o keep the fuel mixture just so with a computer or carb, then has to use the spark for ignition. but i think with all the current diesel truck hype alot of people are opening up to diesels, i know 2 summers ago when there was a show at the local dealer, all the cars i saw going in and out of the garage were diesel.
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the real future lies with hydrogen fuel cells.
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In "Popular Science" magazine (May 2007) has an article that is called the Green Fuel Giude (pg 76). For each car, they give an estimated market share of the vehicle in 2030. Here is what they say:
Hybrid Cars - 30%
Natural Gas Cars - 3%
Ethanol Cars - 6%
Diesel Cars (Go Diesel) - 20%
Biodiesel Cars - 4%
Hydrogen Cars - 2%
So diesel/biodiesel has 24% rating, the seconds highest. Here's the thing, they did not say that the Hybrid car has to be powered by gas, so it could be diesel. I still do not understand why VW has not made a diesel hybrid car. I guess with the extra expense of the diesel plus the extra expense of the hybrid system, it would not be marketable. Diesel in general needs minimal R&D, little investment, and good returns. Too many cars have too many unknowns about them. What is the impact on Ethanol and Biodiesel on food prices? The price of corn and soybeans rising will make other food cost to rise. Just something to think about anyway.
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the future in biodiesel is producing it from algae... it's something like 1 acre of corn field to produce 1 gallon of bio... that is simply ridiculous!!!
1 acre of land to produce algae could potentially produce 100 gallons if done correctly... thank you little green friends!!!
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Hybrid Cars - 30%
Natural Gas Cars - 3%
Ethanol Cars - 6%
Diesel Cars (Go Diesel) - 20%
Biodiesel Cars - 4%
Hydrogen Cars - 2%
Where is the other 35%?
Where is another process for making biodiesel using wood scraps or something like that. I forget what it is called but there is a company making it in Southern Ontario.
I agree that algae farming is probably the best way to make biodiesel
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supposedly there's a guy local to me that produces ethanol for his vehicles using old papers and his pool??? and sells it? lol... you don't want that crap anywhere near your mouth or eyes though... wood alcohol = blindness!!!
i can't see how you would get biodiesel from wood though...
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It was in my local newspaper... I cut it out. I'l try and find it
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The Problem with Bio-Diesel availability at this point is cost, even with last years Federal Government Tax cut of up to $.40 per gallon for B100 it was still more expensive than diesel most of the time.
I live in Florida and this year there was a state law passed that gives further incentives, Yet, still One Retail Pump in Tampa and it's $2.99 last i check, still $0.20 more than diesel.
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/secretary/news/2006/02/0202_03.htm
Also Big Soybean acting like Big Oil and trying to get a stranglehold on the market doesn't help either
http://www.dieselnet.com/news/2005/11efa.php
BTW: Diesel Hybrids are in the works:
Leave it to the Swedes....
http://jalopnik.com/cars/alternative-energy/electric-oil-burner-volvo-working-on-a-diesel-hybrid-c30-233435.php
To be honest on Hydrogen, while it's attractive it's a long way off in America I think just because of how we do things and how politicized everything is. No one ever mentions Norway, that are kicking Hydrogen A**! They have created a Hydrogen Fueling Station that can be setup at ANY current gas station by simpling hooking up to the city water and power supply. They have though things through enough that the power they provide for them will be "green" and are in the process of building a hydrogen Interstate across the country that will hit all their major cities and have Hydrogen fueling stations along it.
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well it's as easy as setting up windmills/solar panels/geothermal generators.
they could all work continuously producing small amounts of hydrogen that build up... eventually it will be the future for sure. total green energy. the concept of hydrogen fuel cells is pretty neat... it's almost like a battery that doesn't discharge. hydrogen & oxygen molecules come together and create energy... about the same as it took to seperate them!
the diesel hybrid car should have a link from the motor to the wheels on a clutch system that can disengage for that extra zoom.
too bad for us that we don't have some of the nice smaller cars that Europe has. 1L efficient diesel cars would be very nice!!! who cares about speed when you commute to work in congested traffic? :lol:
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I live in Florida and this year there was a state law passed that gives further incentives, Yet, still One Retail Pump in Tampa and it's $2.99 last i check, still $0.20 more than diesel.
All in all that is only $2.00 more for a fill up, $2.00 for for a better running engine and a greener engine. It doesn't seem that much more expensive.
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Hi Everyone,
I have been watching Ballard for years and wonder if this technology is the answer,
http://www.ballard.com/be_informed/fuel_cell_technology/demonstration_programs/VFCVP
What do you think ?
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yes... fuel celled vehicles will be the future... problem being is making the hydrogen tank safe, yet light weight.
however, regular combustion engines will be more favourable in the meantime due to costs.
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TTo be honest on Hydrogen, while it's attractive it's a long way off in America I think just because of how we do things and how politicized everything is. No one ever mentions Norway, that are kicking Hydrogen A**! They have created a Hydrogen Fueling Station that can be setup at ANY current gas station by simpling hooking up to the city water and power supply. They have though things through enough that the power they provide for them will be "green" and are in the process of building a hydrogen Interstate across the country that will hit all their major cities and have Hydrogen fueling stations along it.
Except when you have water restrictions. Not only could you not wash your car, but you couldn't fill it up either. Everything comes from someplace.
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I live in Florida and this year there was a state law passed that gives further incentives, Yet, still One Retail Pump in Tampa and it's $2.99 last i check, still $0.20 more than diesel.
All in all that is only $2.00 more for a fill up, $2.00 for for a better running engine and a greener engine. It doesn't seem that much more expensive.
i completely agree burn_your_money... but the problem is that a lot of people are not willing to pay that small amount more (whatever their reason).
Government mandates rarely work and just piss everyone off. The way to do it is for people to actually pay attention to what they are buying & vote with your pocketbook. For instance, Jetta Fan gripes about driving his gas engined Jimmy, quit whining & replace it ... there are some on ebay that went for under $4k. :P
that's why i think maxhedrm, that some sort of government mandate or some factor making a change mandatory is required. the majority of people just won't do it themselves. i hope i'm wrong but i mean... 20 cents a litre is a big deal to some people... not worth the extra money to make a positive change. :?
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I guess all you have to do is slap a $0.20 "green" tax on diesel. And the money could be used to help clean up the enviroment from the dino diesel. That is what's left of it after the politicians get their hands on it.
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Interesting concept there Tyler. A "Green" tax you say. Let's see how it will all play out in the end....
A 20 cent green tax on diesel shoves up our operating costs, as well as the costs for all the truckers on the road. Government gets lots of tax dollars on top of what they already get. Costs to produce and drliver goods goes up. These costs are passed on to the consumer and as we all know, when we buy things, there's tax, so....Government gets lots of tax dollars on top of what they already get. Costs to operate a diesel car go up and in rebellion, some folks opt to buy gas cars, paying tax on said car. Government gets lots of tax dollars on top of what they already get.
The Government will get all kinds of money but I don't know if they will use it for good or just waste it.
Please note the above was written with sarcasm and not intended to run down Tyler's idea of a green tax. Just frustrated with paying a fortune in taxes every year and seeing a lot of it get wasted.....and emphasing Tyler's point at the end of his post "That is what's left of it after the politicians get their hands on it.".
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rather, i think it would be a much more obvious solution to provide a ~20 cent tax break to those who choose to run environmentally friendly fuels. problem with this is the opposite of one of jetta fan's points...... government gets LESS tax dollars. everyone needs to take a hit, not just the little guy. the government (and corporations) would suffer most... so why would they impose this on themselves??? the little guy is expected to, so why don't they?
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BlackTie, that's a good idea but let's face it....the Governments aren't about to give up money. I do like the tax break incentive you mentioned. And I'm sure that with some pretty hard lobbying or arm twisting or something, a government might just do that. However, I'm sure the money they would lose through the tax break would be made up by taxing something else (perhaps breathing :twisted: ). I agree with you....everyone has to take a hit. I just wish governments and big corporations realized that and would take their share of the hit.
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quite honestly our government is pretty damn corrupt... hydro is a huge scam... guy's there making 3 million a year??? wtf!!! politicians are the worst for spending our money too!!!
thats the only way Canada makes me sick... bunch of pigs... steven harper seems like an alright guy when he said "5% renewable energy sources" but if thats 5% ethanol... then wtf? they'll just put 5% ethanol in gas and call it a day... :lol:
aaarrrghhhh!
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Maybe a $0.10 hit on dino diesel and a $0.10 break on bio... Someting short term until the bio diesel industry takes off and is able to make bio for cheaper. It's probably the smart thing to do since it's only a matter of time before we get cut off from foreign oil.
Mind you I'm sure that "short term" would end up like the GST tax.. or WW2 recovery tax I think it was previously called?
And cheaper bio will probably just mean a bigger profit margin for the companies rather then savings for the consumer
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Not a bad idea Tyler with the hit on dino and a break on bio, but I'm like you....I'm sure the oil companies would find a way to make mega bucks off the whole scheme.
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I guess backyard bio and co-ops are our only hope
Hey Scully, how much a liter :D
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:lol:
I was thinking the same thing.
Maybe Scully could be the next Irving or Esso or Shell etc. :lol:
Wonder how much it would be to convert to SVO?
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It's probably the smart thing to do since it's only a matter of time before we get cut off from foreign oil.
As a matter of interest, I just did a Google search on Canadian oil imports and am amazed to discover that,
Quoted from The Council of Canadians,
Canada exports 65 per cent of our oil to the U.S. and yet we have to IMPORT 55 per cent of the oil that Canada needs from Algeria, Venezuela and Norway. The proportionality clause in the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) ties us to these export levels so that even in the event of energy shortages, we would have to continue piping oil and gas south at the same rate as we do now.
This is bull.... sucked in again :roll: .... our "friends" know a good thing when they see it :!: .
We must scrap NAFTA and start building our own oil reserve ! The US has plans to increase their reserve up to 1.5 billion barrels and you know where the bulk of that oil will come from. jeese....
:evil:
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Yeah NAFTA is a crock. They tried to pull that stunt with our water about a year or two ago.
Canada exports 65 per cent of our oil to the U.S. and yet we have to IMPORT 55 per cent of the oil that Canada needs
This does not necessarily mean that if we stopped inporting and exporting we would have a surplus of 10%. It means 65% of everything we produce is exported while 55% of what we need is imported.
Still a crock though
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You're right about the %'s there Tyler. I read somewhere about a year ago that if we produced all our own oil and sold any excess we produced, we would be so well of it wouldn't be funny.
If I can dig up that article I'll post it or a link to it.
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Yeah NAFTA is a crock. They tried to pull that stunt with our water about a year or two ago.
Canada exports 65 per cent of our oil to the U.S. and yet we have to IMPORT 55 per cent of the oil that Canada needs
This does not necessarily mean that if we stopped inporting and exporting we would have a surplus of 10%. It means 65% of everything we produce is exported while 55% of what we need is imported.
Still a crock though
Well, on the surface, it would mean that 45% of what you need is provided by 35% of your production. So you would have a 28% surplus (if I did the math right).
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where does 28% come from? you can't really mathematically do that up without first knowing how much oil we need, and how much oil we export.
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where does 28% come from? you can't really mathematically do that up without first knowing how much oil we need, and how much oil we export.
Actually, you're partially right, I noticed that I am missing what is exported to other countries. If you assume that you only export to the US, that is 65% of your oil production. That means that 35% of your oil would stay internal for your use. You import 55% of the oil you use. So 45% of the oil you use has to come from your own production. So, 35% of your production makes up 45% of your consumption. That gives you a 28% surplus if you kept all your own oil. Since they are percentages you can apply arbitrary numbers to calculate the surplus percentage. So I figured that you use 100 units (really big barrels if you like), 45 of which come from your own production. 35% goes into 100% ~2.85 times. Multiply that by 45 to get your total "units" ... ~128. Which is 28% more than 100.
Clear as mud?
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lets look at it as in barrels...
what if we produce 100'000'000 barrels, but require 400'000'000 barrels???
how do your % numbers factor in now??? doesn't work...
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lets look at it as in barrels...
what if we produce 100'000'000 barrels, but require 400'000'000 barrels???
how do your % numbers factor in now??? doesn't work...
Only because your numbers were pulled from your butt & don't fit the provided percentages or reality.
From the CIA factbook entry for Canada, as of 2004:
Oil - production: 3.135 million bbl/day (2004)
Oil - consumption: 2.294 million bbl/day (2004)
Oil - exports: 1.6 million bbl/day (2004)
Oil - imports: 963,000 bbl/day (2004)
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/ca.html
So, actually a 36% surplus. So, apparently you export to more than the US.
The percentage calculation I made is quite valid.
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well now you have some hard numbers and some hard percentages... way to go!
don't forget that those are 2004 numbers... with our recent jump on the oil sands, our production has increased significantly.. and probably so has our consumption.
then again percentages are just percentages... 28% isn't 36%
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rather then ruining this thread over a percentage lets try and get back on topic.
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well now you have some hard numbers and some hard percentages... way to go!
don't forget that those are 2004 numbers... with our recent jump on the oil sands, our production has increased significantly.. and probably so has our consumption.
then again percentages are just percentages... 28% isn't 36%
Well, my original percentages are still more valid than the numbers you totally made up that didn't fir the production percentages originally given. So there. :P
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You could always power your car with aluminum.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070518/us_nm/fuel_hydrogen_dc