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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: jack's lack on April 09, 2007, 02:04:30 pm
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so i was driving home the other day and it started to jerk as i let the clutch out in first a few stop signs later and i could barely get it to go into first and the clutch pedal felt weak like it was getting half way down before it was doing anything.
cars got 130,000 miles on it and i put the giles pump in it a couple thousand back. i have been pretty spirited on take offs but its not like im reving it up to 5k and dumping it either
does it sound like the clutch?
if so what else should i look into doing ie lighter flywheel
black forest industries has a couple of set ups and they are in my neck of the woods anyone using a clutch/flywheel from them
cheers:
Ryan
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to give you an idea, if it was your clutch, the rpm's would fly up and the car wouldn't seem to move (clutch slip)
if it isn't slipping like that, then i would think it could possibly be a broken/loose mechanism, or the clutch cable is messed up. could be the throw-out bearing too?
now you say trouble getting it into 1st... like with the shifter? that would be linkage... or possibly some internal damage inside the transmission with all that extra Giles power! :twisted:
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It could also be the arm at the end of fifth that transfered the rotational movement from the clutch lever to the rod that pushes on the PP. They have a tendancy of cracking and causing problems similar to what you are describing. The good news is you can access and replace it with the tranny in the car
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with the car off i can row thru all the gears just fine so i don't think it is the shift linkage clutch pedal def feels different. didn't seem to rev high or give me problems once i got it in gear (of course i was going between stop signs a city block at a time never got out of second). seems like perhaps something is preventing the clutch from engaging
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have someone push the clutch pedal while you watch what is going on under the hood at the transmission... maybe your auto adjusting cable is screwing up???
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The actuation finger is what I was thinking of
http://www.brokevw.com/releasearm.html
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Stop and go traffic, thats your problem. Get off Abercorn hit the 516 bypass out towards georgetown and let that giles pump work. Oh yeah, stay away from the vw dealer near the mall (vaden I think) they are junk.
Jim
Former Savannah man, E.53rd st in Ardsley Park. Hip huggers still rockin till 4 am?
Sorry, I don't know jack about your clutch issue :)
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burn your money, that sounds like it might be my problem thanks for your help. i havn't checked it since reading that post but i pulled on that arm right after it acted up and it seemed to go very far so something in there is broke i bet.
so if it is the to bearing or the pushrod i can get it with the trans in the car? but if it is the pressure plate or the clutch the tranny's coming out right? such a big PITA for such a cheap repair
oh and as for all the Savannah stuff, that was pretty good, i bought my R32 from that stealership and no they want nothing to do with my rabbit, and hip huggers turned into a teen dance club and was recently closed down permant because of a shooting! sorry you couldn't help me with my trans problem either but you did make me laugh which i could def use right now.
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so if it is the to bearing or the pushrod i can get it with the trans in the car? but if it is the pressure plate or the clutch the tranny's coming out right? such a big PITA for such a cheap repair
Yes exactly. Usually it is hairline crack where the little green line is on the piece that the blue arrow is pointing at
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/pic253s.jpg)
Just replace that piece, you can't always see the crack with your eye. May as well do the TO bearing while you are in there. You will need a new green cap to cover the end of fifth as it usually gets deformed when you remove it. VW sells them for like $5 I think. I think you will need to drain the tranny and refill it to, which isn't a bad idea most likely anyways.
Make sure you get fluid that is compatable with yellow metals (the brass synchros). I think you need to stay away from GL5 and GL4-/GL5 stuff. GL-4 is what you want. I use synchromesh by penzoil or I'd use stuff from the stealer
Here are your instructions http://www.brokevw.com/TO.html dropping the trans would make this job easier but overall I think it would be easiest to keep the trans installed
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i've been reading up on that GL5/GL4 deal... is redline MTL 75w90 a bad idea??? quite a few people say it's good stuff for the 020 trannies... what exactly is synchromesh? i've heard a lot about that too...
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http://www.pennzoil.com/products/gear_oil/syncro_fluid.html
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If you have a self adjusting cable check that out first. I have seen them act up just as you describe. Better still, change it out for the older but more reliable manual adjusting cable. It is about one third the price too.
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i believe i have the manual adjust cable, but i will check to make sure
i can find the pushrod and the TO bearing but i havn't found the finger or the cover on a parts website yet (autozone and pepboys never have anything for my car) so any good parts links would be welcome
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020 141 073 A - Locking Cover
(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6251/lockingcover020141073anm8.jpg)
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end cap (http://parts.autopartsonlinecanada.com/parts/apocanada/wizard.jsp?year=1989&make=VW&model=JET--002&category=J&part=Trans.+End+Cover+Gasket)
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so i worked on it for a bit and this is what i came up with
the arm didn't seem from comparison with the photos to be lifting too high before it touched the TO bearing
i def have the manual adj cable and it seemed to be adjusted fine but i might replace it for the hell of it
i noticed a puddle under the car fluid that is red in color (trans fluid??) also similar fluid on the bottom of the tranny in the differential area so i am really hoping that the tranny isn't fried
when i popped the green end cap off only about a pint of fluid or about 250ML dripped out and it was gray brown in color i can't see anything wrong with the finger as far as a crack it seems to have some wear and what appears to be heat damage
(http://www.photodump.com/direct/vdubpunk/finger2.jpg)
when i pulled the throw out bearing it had little metal shavings in it (never good to find metal shavings in a tranny is it?) and it rattles and grinds when you try to spin it. so i think it was at least part of the problem and i hope all of the problem
so should i just put in a new TO bearing fill her back up with fluid and see what happens??
oh and i was able to find the endcap several diff places online here in the states but no such luck with the finger (the bentley calls it the clutch lever) either way i need a part number for that little bugger. i found it on your candadian parts site tyler and it is called a clutch release arm. you canucks have all the good VW stuff
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020 141 709 A - 4 speed
020 141 709 B - 5 speed
:)
actually it says dropped on 01/09/2003... use as replacement:
02K 141 709 A, however the 4 speed is still the same.
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got it website called it operating shaft lever (how many names can one part have?)
i'll post up after i get the parts and throw em in and let you know thanks for all your help
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so fixing the stuff in 5th end didn't do jack, so i dropped the 020 and i found the problem
only one spring left in the clutch, only found peices of one no sign of the other two :?
the flywheel bolts were so messed up (i suppose by spring peices bouncing around in there) that i had to use a 12pt 9mm socket and drive it on with a mallet to back them out.
the circlip was mangled and it did a number on the clutch release plate
(http://www.photodump.com/direct/vdubpunk/clutchPP.jpg)
(http://www.photodump.com/direct/vdubpunk/clutchFW.jpg)
(http://www.photodump.com/direct/vdubpunk/clutchreleaseplate.jpg)
(http://www.photodump.com/direct/vdubpunk/mangledparts.jpg)
so i ordered a sachs clutch kit and a lightweight flywheel, figured i might as well upgrade since i went to all the trouble to drop the tranny, hopefully it all goes in faster than it came out
on another rant, the bolts that hold the drive shafts to the transaxle, i stripped half of them out because bentley says it's a socket head bolt so i am going to town with a 6mm allen key on my socket wrench when i finally think to look at the bolt and realize it is a T40 star!!! (i got the stripped ones out with my channel locks) so i go to all of the hardware and autopart stores and i need a M8-1.25 X 50 socket head cap screw and they all have them up to M8-1.25 X 40 :x so i had to order them from bolt depot.com and pay more for shipping than i did for the bolts, which is the story of my life with an old VW in SE GA
anyway thanx to everyone who posted suggestions
i think i should feel a substancial improvement when i get the new clutch/LWFW/PP in
as always any further suggestions on this install are welcome and greatly appreciated, often the bently fails to mention common sence mistakes that i am prone to make, or hints that will make my life easier
peace,
Ryan
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i think i payed like 5 bucks for my tool to do the axle bolts. 12 pt 8mm if i remember correctly... i would have shipped one down to you.
i like removing the wheel, cranking the steering over, and using the impact with a long extension to remove the bolts... quick and easy!
i did the same thing as you initially.. and some of the bolts came out... they were so dirty i had no idea until one of them stripped real bad... :oops: lets just say that the grinder was my best friend :lol:
thank god i did it on a parts car though... no need for those bolts anymore anyways!
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You say that you have fluid around your axles, when you removed them was the axle grease really runny? You should seriosuly consider replacing the seals in there. It will quickly destroy your inner CVs if the grease is diluted with tranny fluid.
Yes, you need a 8mm 12pt tool.
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You say that you have fluid around your axles, when you removed them was the axle grease really runny?
sorry i must have been misleading, i have determined that the fluid in question is PS fluid and it was collecting on the botom of the diff because that is the lowest point for it to drip from, the grease on the axles is nice and thick, and i have some more to lube things up when i throw it all back together, plus with the new bolts if the CV's go then they will be easy to replace,:wink: so far they havn't made a sound though
where do i need this 8mm 12 pt? for the flywheel bolts?, or to jam on the end of the axle bolts? mine had torx heads i just stripped them out with a hex key cause i mistakingly thought thats what they were, either way i got them out with the channel locks (aka slipjoint pliers) and ordered new bolts so it's no worry now
cheers
Ryan
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the 8mm 12pt is for the axle bolts. It's not a torx as you will see when you get the new ones. Although some aftermarket ones are different. I think I have a set of 7mm hex ones in my closet.
As far as I know the flywheel bolts are suppose to be 12pt 9mm
Glad to hear the CVs/seals are in good shape
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i put it all back together and got it running, drove it around, works well.
the battery died after the 2+ months of sitting and it wouldn't take a charge, so i had to get a new one. still wouldn't start...turns out i forgot to reconnect the terminal 50 wire to the starter :oops:
getting the tranny back in turned out to be way harder than expected, and def should have been a two man job.
on a technical note the axle bolts are the 45mm length not the 50mm i ordered and used however the 50mm bolts only stick out 3mm or so and don't seem to cause an issue (no rubbing)
once again thanks for everyones help and timely feedback
Cheers,
Ryan