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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 2mAn on March 06, 2007, 01:12:19 pm
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some of you may know that i recently had a local shop install a TD motor in my car in the beginning of the year...
i had to take it back twice to stop all the leaks. first it was the Injection Pump that he just replaced with another one. then i had to take it back again to stop an oil leak... once that was all sorted out and i had some time off from work, i decided to make a road trip back to california, so that i could work on getting my rabbit closer to completion...( im in seattle, washington and my rabbit is in fresno, ca 1000 miles apart from each other)
ok... so after checking the fluids and filling up on diesel before i left, i added some oil to make sure i was good. i added less than half a quart. several hundred miles later when i needed to refill i checked the oil again and it was low, so i added the other half-a-quart and continued on my way...
once i was in cali, i did an oil change, filled it all up. on the way home i had to use 2 quarts of oil, a full quart each time i stopped for fuel....
so i get back to seattle at 3:30am, get up and ready for work at 7:30am and the car wouldnt start. i changed the glow plugs, the old ones were the worst ive ever seen. that didnt change anything though...
so finally i tow it to the shop that did the swap and they said they had to put 3 quarts of oil before anything registered on the dipstick :evil:
so who is responsible for the new engine i need? i know who i think needs to do it, what do you guys think??? :x
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The shop should do it but I don't think they are obligated to do so, unless it is under warranty.
That really sucks man, I'd be super :evil:
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Where's the oil going? Did you buy the engine, or did they sell it to you? We can't give much of an opinion without knowing all the facts.
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Where's the oil going? Did you buy the engine, or did they sell it to you? We can't give much of an opinion without knowing all the facts.
the oil is getting burned, the car hasnt leaked anything since he fixed those problems. i bought the (used) motor from him and he has warrantied everything else..
right now we are trying to decide what is fair for both of us. he says i shouldve checked it more often (which would be about every hour or so on a 15 hour drive) and he says that because i didnt check it every hour that i caused the engine failure. i am telling him that the engine itself failed because of the oil burning. he says he will warranty the oil burning, but not the motor...
im going crazy right now, i just wanna drive my car
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The shop should do it but I don't think they are obligated to do so, unless it is under warranty.
That really sucks man, I'd be super :evil:
trust me i am, this car has been givnig me problems since he put the motor in it...
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i just talked to him and he basically told me he would warranty the oil burning problem, but not the whole motor... we went back and forth a little and he told me to think what would be a good solution and to call him back....
heres what i think...
i should take my original motor back to him (assuming its good still ) and we would rebuild that. the out of pocket expenses (for him) would be a full rebuild kit, all new gaskets and whatnot. then rather than one of his workers rebuilding the motor and dealing with it (and losing money from other jobs), i would rebuild it with him on the weekend. this could give me the opportunity to do a metal headgasket, raceware rings, arp headstuds, etc and that would be stuff i pay for...
hows that sound? is that reasonable??
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You are very fortunate to have a mechanic such as him, it sounds like he truly wants to resolve this fairly for both of you.
So you basically want him to rebuild your old engine with you on the weekends and you will pay for the extra performance stuff right? He is covering all "stock" parts as well as machining costs?
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Two thoughts:
- still not clear if you paid to have a motor rebuilt... or paid to have a motor you got elsewhere installed ?? If you paid for a full rebuild I would expect some kind of warrentee ?
- if this guy did do the rebuild it sounds like a terrible job... if so, I'm not sure I'd want to trust him all over again with another motor ?? There's a lot more to a rebuild than gaskets... machining, tolerances, pistons, rings, bearings... if he did the original rebuild and skipped all that stuff the first time (highly likely given your oil consumption) how will you get an engine you can trust this time ??
<while I was composing this post some of the questions got answered... still sounds bad that you got stuck with a sever oil burner.... if he found it for you I'd run away>
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when the motor burns oil it eats glow plugs. could be a piston ring problem, i'd do like you said though, rebuild your old motor and do the metal gasket and all that then slap the turbo stuff on and drive it like its stolen
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That is an excessive amount of oil burning, surely you must have seen blue smoke from the exhaust? I'd say you are both a bit responsible, he should have seen how much oil it was burning, and you should have stopped driving it if it burned that much oil. Personally if I see one of these engines burning more than a quart and half every 3000miles or 5000kms I'm worried.
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well if the guy told you that it burned a lot of oil, and you agreed to have it installed, then you don't really have any re-course. If he told u he had a good running motor, and installed it with a warranty and it was burning oil... then he has to fix it. unless his warranty states that oil burning isn't covered. now if it had a slow oil burning problem and you never checked it... and the motor seized... yea its your fault.
but you did add a lot of oil to the motor.. if you kept the receipts for it then you would have evidence :P but who keeps receipts for a cheap bottle of oil... :(
i like the idea of you working with the mechanic to rebuild the motor, and go all out. that way you both win. even if you just got labour out of him it would be worth it.
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when the motor burns oil it eats glow plugs. could be a piston ring problem, i'd do like you said though, rebuild your old motor and do the metal gasket and all that then slap the turbo stuff on and drive it like its stolen
im gonna pull the head and see how the original 275k motor looks tonight when i get home from work...
the guy is really cool, thats kind of why i left the name of the shop out of this ( for now anyways ) . i know he doesnt want to make me pay for a new engine, and he def doesnt wanna pay for it out of his own pocket, so i think this is the best solution. he wont lose money, & i wont spend a bunch of money (again)...
so whos got the links to the goodies i need (rings, headstuds, 1.9HG)
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That is an excessive amount of oil burning, surely you must have seen blue smoke from the exhaust? I'd say you are both a bit responsible, he should have seen how much oil it was burning, and you should have stopped driving it if it burned that much oil. Personally if I see one of these engines burning more than a quart and half every 3000miles or 5000kms I'm worried.
i didnt notice the smoke, it was really late at night and i wasnt paying attention to what was behind me...
i really didnt have a choice, i had to come back. it was either leave the jetta in california and finish the rabbit ( which still isnt done) or take a chance and drive the jetta back. so obviously i took a chance and drove it, but i checked and filled the oil everytime i stopped. he says i shouldve stopped more often, but with how much oil it was burning i wouldve had to stop every 100 miles and put another quart of oil in it!!!
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i didnt notice the smoke, it was really late at night and i wasnt paying attention to what was behind me...
i really didnt have a choice, i had to come back. it was either leave the jetta in california and finish the rabbit ( which still isnt done) or take a chance and drive the jetta back. so obviously i took a chance and drove it, but i checked and filled the oil everytime i stopped. he says i shouldve stopped more often, but with how much oil it was burning i wouldve had to stop every 100 miles and put another quart of oil in it!!!
Better to stop every hour than to replace the engine, that said if it really needed that much oil the engine was already scrap. Now that it has been oil starved it likely isn;t going to be very engine rebuild friendly, it kind of sounds like you guys are hoping to just get away with rings and bearings, I really really would not plan on it. I WOULD plan on boring and honing, oversize pistons, resizing rods, possibly grinding crank... etc
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well if the guy told you that it burned a lot of oil, and you agreed to have it installed, then you don't really have any re-course. If he told u he had a good running motor, and installed it with a warranty and it was burning oil... then he has to fix it. unless his warranty states that oil burning isn't covered. now if it had a slow oil burning problem and you never checked it... and the motor seized... yea its your fault.
but you did add a lot of oil to the motor.. if you kept the receipts for it then you would have evidence :P but who keeps receipts for a cheap bottle of oil... :(
i like the idea of you working with the mechanic to rebuild the motor, and go all out. that way you both win. even if you just got labour out of him it would be worth it.
we never went into details of the motor. all he knew was that it was "running" when he pulled it. when we talked about the swap, i was under the impression that i was going to get an actual TD motor, which turned out to be an NA...
so i talked to him and we agreed that we will rebuild my old motor, i will pay for part of the rebuild kit, but at his price, not my price and ill also get some total seal rings.... ill also be doing most of the rebuild which is ok because its a good learning experience (in addition wiht dealing with the whole ordeal)
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If the engine stopped running for lack of oil trust me, this isn't going to be a bearings and rings affair.
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dont worry dave, im throwing that motor he sold me into the garbage, im going to rebuild my original motor....
pulled the head off today and it still looked nice and shiny inside the cylinders... the coolant passages are a different story though :cry:
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acid dip it :D
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acid dip it :D
the block?
heres what im planning on doing, you may have added another thing to my list:
-rehone the block to OE specs
-new rings (probably total seal, any opinions here??)
-new bearings
-polish crank bearing surfaces
-acid dip the block (?)
-1.9 Metal HG ( can someone link the "how-to" so that i can use it on my 1.6)
im guessin the acid dip will clean up the block internally?? :?
heres something im curious about though...
im pretty sure my head off the original motor is a solid lifter, so will i need to use the head off the motor on my car right now? thats probably going to need a rebuild also :evil:
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hydro lifter heads need a hydro block, solid lifter heads can use either block but you need a block off for the extra oil port if using a hydro head
I read about acid dipping in a preformance magazine i have, suppose to clean everything out really nice, speciafially the coolant passages. It was for a block
Definitly use a torque plate when you are machining the block
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dont worry dave, im throwing that motor he sold me into the garbage, im going to rebuild my original motor....
I'll bring my trash can to you so you have somewhere to put it! :D
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another man's garbage is another man's treasure! hehe