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General Information => General => Topic started by: sleepydog on February 14, 2007, 09:19:07 am
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Looking to buy a turbo diesel Golf or Jetta. Is the '85 car as good as the '92 car in terms of power and fuel efficiency if the condition is similar? I am looking at a '85 Jetta turbo diesel 5 spd. with 325k, new cylinder head last year.Would a '92 be a better choice? :shock: :)
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i think the main difference you'll find (non-visual) is that sometime in '86 (IIRC) they changed from solid lifters to hydraulic lifters and sometime in '90 they changed from CE1 electronics to CE2. i can't think of many other important differences off-hand.
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I personally like my '89, it is what I like to call an Mk2.2. It has a good feel to it. I have borrowed my brother's 86 Jetta (Mk2.1) and it just does not feel the same, it does not have power steering. Plus, it has that stupid useless triangle window on the front doors. A 91 or 92 (Mk2.3) has newer style bumpers.
The Mk2 has 3 very distinct body and interior differences. You have to look closely to notice them. The Mk2.1 (85- about 87?) has the that triangle window and a grill with more thinner grill slots. The Mk2.2 (88-90) is similar to the Mk2.1 but gets rid of that stupid window, better steering wheel (typically with power steering), a cloth boot around the gear shift (not the clunky rubber boot) and the grill has 3 thicker grill slots. The Mk2.3 (91-92) gets rid of the old bumpers and has styling air guards underneath the bumpers and side. It also gets rid of the tray by the driver and passenger's knees. Mk2.3 had version of the Eco Diesel, just a regualar diesel with a turbo. A regular turbo has a fuel pump to add extra fuel in too. The Mk2.3 also would sometimes have an awful transmission with very high rpms at 75 mph.
The engine differences are little to none between them. There are two to three engine choices depending on the year. 1.6 NA, 1.6 Turbo, and then 1.6 Eco. They should all have hydro lifters and they should all get about 40 mpg if not more.
I hope this helps. The main thing would be rust, and then the condition of the car, then feel and looks. This summer when I bought my car, I now wish I was not as jumpy to buy the car as I did, but there were very few diesels availible to buy during this high gas price period. These cars are now gaining value.
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Mid 89 they made the change to CE2 from CE1. It was also during 86 that the hydro lifters were introduced.
I'm not sure if the heated fuel filter was a Canadian option or done by year.
Beyond that there isn't a whole lot different, except looks of course
The "stupid triangle windows" AKA small doors can be swapped with the later ones, as can everything else.
Power steering is a power robber as far as I am concerned. I can't wait to rip mine out and put in some good manual steering.
The steering wheels are also swappable, but you need the big spine adapter, which is simply pressed onto the later steering column splines if you want to use a later wheel on an earlier car
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Mid 89 they made the change to CE2 from CE1. It was also during 86 that the hydro lifters were introduced.
I'm not sure if the heated fuel filter was a Canadian option or done by year.
Beyond that there isn't a whole lot different, except looks of course
The "stupid triangle windows" AKA small doors can be swapped with the later ones, as can everything else.
Power steering is a power robber as far as I am concerned. I can't wait to rip mine out and put in some good manual steering.
The steering wheels are also swappable, but you need the big spine adapter, which is simply pressed onto the later steering column splines if you want to use a later wheel on an earlier car
those stupid triangle windows helped keep the window to be rectangular... i'm having a lot of difficulty with my front window now... i had to remove one of the guides, and have my window panel off so i can 'assist' the window to move up... what a piece of junk!!!
and as for the power steering, i didn't mind not having it at all... it adds a couple HP up top :P just another thing to break IMO... oh and did i mention that it makes getting to the thermostat a PITA??? i was actually considering swapping my system to mech steering... but as with all things it could cost a lot of dough, and there is always the possibility for things to go wrong :(
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I like triangle windows-if they open, great way to get some air in the car on hot summer days. Hydraulic lifters may be less maintenance. It is hard to be patient until the right car comes along. Thanks for all the help. I havn't seen this Jetta in person yet, it's a west coast car and the body looks rust and dent free.
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Power steering is nice. It doesn't rob much power if your going in a straight line. Which is usually when you want power. I like all the power goodies. I have owned too many clunkers without them. I think power heated seats are overkill though.
So the 85 to 92 have the same body just minor cosmetic differences?
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Power steering is nice. It doesn't rob much power if your going in a straight line. Which is usually when you want power. I like all the power goodies. I have owned too many clunkers without them. I think power heated seats are overkill though.
So the 85 to 92 have the same body just minor cosmetic differences?
I like to hammer on the diesel going around corners, my car is too slow to give any pleasure in a straight line, unless I'm risking losing my license.
Heated seats would be nice, so would a heated steering wheel and shift knob.. so cold in the mornings.
85 to 92 are built on the A2 platform so they are all the same. The fact that they are all the same MK makes them even more alike. Take the Sciroccos for example, both are built on the A1 platform but there is a mk1 and a mk2, both similar but certainly unique and can be identified by their body styling, not just by bolts ons like the A2 Jetta/Golf (big/small bumpers for example)
Someone correct me if I explained that wrong....
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Power steering is nice. It doesn't rob much power if your going in a straight line. Which is usually when you want power. I like all the power goodies. I have owned too many clunkers without them. I think power heated seats are overkill though.
So the 85 to 92 have the same body just minor cosmetic differences?
i would have to say that ps robs quite a bit of power... true that there is a high pressure bypass valve that reduces the strain, but at high rpm it is still robbing a couple HP. its just dead spinning weight... with our cars, we need all the hp we can get!!!! :lol:
i bought a car with heated seats... now time to swap them this summer ;) really helps with those cold mornings/nights
from what my polish mechanic told me, '89 is a bad year for rust... something about VW not doing such a great job with their anti rust coating... pretty much just bad for us Canadians... you Americans probably dont need to worry about that though!
I'd say go for a '91. '92's seem a bit looser (mine is anyways) and my old '86 was like a camion... sounded loud... drove really rough... i loved it!
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I've heard 92 was a bad year as well, but I don't really see it. Of course I've only owned one of them
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I've heard 92 was a bad year as well, but I don't really see it. Of course I've only owned one of them
i have a '92... but my car was sprayed with this really thick black stuff... the rust is at a minimum for sure. nearly 400'000km on it too.
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After having driven with power steering for 5 years, my 1997 Golf's power steering pump was removed during its 1.6TD rebuild and I liked it much better. Frees up a few HP, removes a pulley from the engine, it's one less part to potentially break (no more pump & PS fluid), and replacing my thermostat was a breeze.
Manual steering also feels better - all the power assists and heavier "creature comfort" padding between the driver & road in new cars gives a more disconnected feeling from the road. It's like a difference between piloting a large cruise ship vs. riding a jet ski (funner even at same speeds, reacts well to the "road" or 3ft waves). That's an exaggeration but you get the point.
The '97 Golf's steering with the PS removed was surprisingly not as firm as I expected at parking lot speeds. A broken PS is harder to steer than a PS setup with the pump properly removed. Of course.. all this is still my own opinion. Some still prefer power assists. :)
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The main reason that I called that window the "stupid triangle window" is that in the A2, it is completely useless. It does not open or anything. Atleast with the Rabbits, they would open and bring in lots of air into the car (until they leak).
As burn_your_money said, most of the differences between the Mk2.1 to Mk2.3 can be swapped out. I was just mainly discribing the stock differences. Find a Jetta you like in good condition at a good price and buy it. Turbo models are a little more rare though.
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I have a 92 gasser and it's nearly rust free. Too bad it's a gasser. :( I just started driving my 89 GLI (now 8 valve automatic and a pig on gas) and I thought the power steering was great (all my others were manual steering) until the thermostat quit working. I guarantee when it starts giving me trouble it will get changed over to manual steering. I also like the mirrors on the 88 and up cars better.
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I had an 86 Jetta that I put 620,000km on and a 91 Jetta GL that I put 580,000km on. Both were turbodiesels.
I never got nearly the power or fuel mileage from the 91. The dealer here did everything - they used my car as a guinnea pig because they had so many complaints about fuel mileage post 1989. They changed everything that they could, but to no avail. The 86 gave 65mpg easily and the 91 stayed around 52 it's while life (Canadian gallon is larger).
They are both great cars, but the pre-89 cars got much better fuel mileage and power.
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i think it's because they used alot shorter gearing on the laters cars
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i think it's because they used alot shorter gearing on the laters cars
Nope, that was only in the NA diesels. The turbos were all the same.
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The '90s eco diesel had a cat.
I'm thinking it might be required after a certain year.
The '86 TD didn't have/need one so if you have to deal with emissions you might want an earlier A2.
I liked the extra cubbys in the kneebar area, on the earlier ones.
I like the bumpers/styling on the later, ones after '90.
They might have bigger drums on the rear after '90, still researching that.
I did have rust problems on my '91... around the windshield and above the RR tire. The rest is holding up well.
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I Think that only the US got the ecodiesel. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I never saw one here.
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Well, I have found another Jetta, '86 5 speed, 295,000 kl. rebuilt engine top to bottom, with about 45,000 kl on the rebuild. He says he gets 1000 kl on a tank! about $35; no power steering, $2600 can. Again havn't seen it, I live in a rural area, about 3 hours away. Everything works, good tires but...and here I think is the main problem...the paint is brown [metalic?],not many like this color, the interior is grey, solid rust free body. A rebuilt engine must be worth something. I can allways repaint the car a different color. I am going to let him know tomorrow. These cars are hard to find at low prices. Any opinions? :? :)
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Well, I have found another Jetta, '86 5 speed, 295,000 kl. rebuilt engine top to bottom, with about 45,000 kl on the rebuild. He says he gets 1000 kl on a tank! about $35; no power steering, $2600 can. Again havn't seen it, I live in a rural area, about 3 hours away. Everything works, good tires but...and here I think is the main problem...the paint is brown [metalic?],not many like this color, the interior is grey, solid rust free body. A rebuilt engine must be worth something. I can allways repaint the car a different color. I am going to let him know tomorrow. These cars are hard to find at low prices. Any opinions? :? :)
if he's got receipts for the rebuild from a reputable shop... then buy it. you can always repaint cars :) i've done it before... just have to get the shine off and use a good primer like tremclad (lol seriously!!! paint job lasted 3 years and i bet if i went to the scrapper the car would still have excellent paint... unless it was crushed..)
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He says he gets 1000 kl on a tank!
That's about what my car gets in the summer, I have a 92. I get like 800 in the winter
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true... my old '86 TD with a re-ring (no hone) got about 1000km/tank in the summer... and about 900 in the winter... with the '92 i'm lucky to get 700km/tank!!!!!!!!!
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For the record, 85 and 86.0 cars have solid lifters, NOT hydraulic.
Good for roughly 2 horsepower from what I've seen. :lol:
And, that car is probably LA8V Quartz Grey Metallic. There are ways to make that color look damn good.
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For the record, 85 and 86.0 cars have solid lifters, NOT hydraulic.
WRONG. I had an 85 and an 86. Both had hydraulic. In Canada, 84 was the last solid lifter year.
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On what cars to buy or stay away from, I was told not to touch anything with the Digifant (sp?) injection. Also I have been told that 85 injection pumps are good for about another 100 km per tank over any subsequent years. Don't have enough experience with diesels to verify either assertion.
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For the record, 85 and 86.0 cars have solid lifters, NOT hydraulic.
WRONG. I had an 85 and an 86. Both had hydraulic. In Canada, 84 was the last solid lifter year.
I've owned a 86 Canadian car, it was solid lifter. lol sounds like true VW style right there.
Thankfully Digifant (I'll assume you mean 2) is only for gas cars. Digi1 is great for boost but is super finicky and ultra rare. (also gasser only)
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digi1 only came in G60 cars and in california in north america AFAIK.
i imagine the above poster with the hydr. lifter 85 and 86 bought the cars after the heads were replaced.
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you can't put a hydro head on a solid lifter block though, the other way is fine
I beleive you are correct about the digi1
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I think so on the Digi 1 as well.
You guys may well have gotten hydraulic lifters in Canada for 85, but Bentley says nothing to that effect. Also, IIRC, ETKA does not list a hydraulic lifters engine in 1985.