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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: DA-BRT on January 08, 2007, 04:52:29 am
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Hi folks,
I got a lot of spare parts lying around my shed. I want to build-up an engine from the parts I got.
Basic idea is taking a 1600TD engineblock and changing the bore to 79.5mm (same as the Transporter T3 1700D (KY) and the 1900TD (AAZ)
I suppose that the rods from the 1700D will fit the krank from the 1600TD, or even the 1900TD rods will fit the krank.
For pistons I prefer the 1900TD ones, but I doubt that these are different than the 1700D ones.
I tried the search function about the rods and pistons but I haven't found what I was looking for.
I can tear all 3 engines appart to check ik myself, but I somebody knows this I will save me time.
I can feel the question coming, why don't you take the engineblock from the 1700D? Well that engine hasn't got oiljet piston cooling. And the stroke from the 1600 and 1700 is identical.
I want to use the 1900TD Cylinderhead on the 1600TD engineblock. With an metal headgasket. I hope to eliminate the rouch ildle that people with an 1900TD head on a 1600 engineblock has got.
For an oilpump, I want to compair one from a IDI to a DI.
Pistons going to be given a little bit more room for the valves. And the trick that has been done in the Toyota pistons. After that coating the pistons.
Cylinderhead put some custom valvesprings on it. Valve seats angle change. And send away the prechambers for coating. Than put the original head on the flowbench and check the difference between original and a ported head.
For a Injectionpump I got an Renault Master pump lying around with a 20mm axle and a short nose.
I only need to change a pumpwheel from an 1600 pump to fit the new axle.
Got a lot of spare IP parts. I'm going to use a 12mm plunger with a earlier 1900TD Camplate. Presure springs from a 1900TDI (measured them and they are stronger than the ones from other pumps)
Injectors, I don't know exactly. But I hope Jake will finish testing on the huge injectors soon.
Got a lot of turbo's to choose from. But I'll think ill put a Garrett VNT-25 on it.
Flywheel. A lightened Corrado G60 one. In combination with the 02A gearbox.
I will see how it will go. (time based) This engine has got a low priority. Need to deliver a lot of Mechanical TDI engines before spring. (my customers want to ride with nice weather ;) )
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1.9td uses 26mm piston pin, 1.6, 1.7 and 1.9na uses 24mm. 1.9td rod is 144mm, 1,9na 150mm, 1.6 and 1.7 136mm long.
You could bore 1.6 block to 79,5mm and use 1.6 or 1.7 crank and rods and 1.7 pistons. Or you could drill oil squirters to 1.7 block. 1.9na pistons are lower than 1.6/1.7 pistons.
79,5 bore will bump compression a bit higher than 1.6/1.9 combo.
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@Audi80: Thanks for this usefull information.
I realy thought I would be plug and play.
I presume that I can best take the 1.7N/A and drill in the oil jets as you wrote. Getting other parts together won't make it any easier.
Funny that the 1.9D and TD are not identical.
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hi..just take a look at the 1.7l block, it definitely has oil squirters.
here, home in germany, many bus-drivers convert their 1,6TD with a 1,7l motor&head: better cooling(1,9l style), performance ;) and durability.
only problem is the non-existing oil-return bore in the bottom end..when you want to use an 1,9l head.
good luck, michael
(going from 1,6TD to 1Z bottom end with AAZ pistons & head)
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@mdonau: I took appart 2 1.7D engines and neither of them had oil squirters. That's why I presumed the were all without them.
I'm also curious about your last line:
going from 1,6TD to 1Z bottom end with AAZ pistons & head
Do the rods and pistonsf fit the 1Z engineblock without any problems?
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AAZ pistons and rods will fit in TDI block.
Is there any differences between AAZ and TDI blocks? I am intrested if TDI block is stronger?
(going from 1,6TD to 1,7 long block td)
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Ho do you want to make a 1.7 long stroke engine?
1,9TD (AAZ): borexstroke 79.5 x 95.5 (o.a. golf3, vento, transporter T4 enz.)
1.7D (KY): borexstroke 79.5 x 86.4 (Transporter T3)
1.6TD (JR, RA, SB enz.): borexstroke 76.5 x 86.4
If you ad a long strok krank youre automatic going to 1.9? Or am I missing something?
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Not long stroke, long block. 1,6 crank to aaz (or tdi) block = 1,7td :wink:
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have seen lots of pictures of 1.7 pistons and none of them have ever had cutouts for piston cooling oil squirters.
Then you haven't seen the ones I got from scopefrfd. :D
They are 79.98mm... the metal 1.9 headgasket will fit over that right?
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Not long stroke, long block. 1,6 crank to aaz (or tdi) block = 1,7td :wink:
How do you want to do that? Cut off the top (4.55mm) of the engine block to get te pistons back to the correct height?
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With longer H-profile conrods.
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Are that custom Rods?
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No, I haven't. Link please?
Er... um... I'll get those 1.7TD piston pictures taken sometime here soon and posted yess sirree. Been meaning to do that.
I was surprised they had the cutouts.
I just got some 2.5" over the axle exhaust for the Rabbit GTI it's going into... but I haven't started on the engine work yet.
How are you on that project?
Not very far. I want to get some ARP rod bolts first so I can get the rods balanced but still need to find the part number for them.
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Are that custom Rods?
SBC rods, will not fit directly.
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Aha....Nice. Are you going to make a topic about this engine?
I like IDI's myself more than the TDI's and these kind of projects ar my favorite!
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I like IDI´s better too 8)
I just started collecting parts for it, start building after few months. Maybe I´ll start my own topic then. :)
At first I have to get Scirocco (http://www.kotinet.com/matti.farm/Scirocco/) running with 1,6TD from my earlier Audi. I´m installing 02A transmission at the moment.
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I'm also installing a 02A (G60 almoste same internals as the 020 4T) in my Jetta 1. With a 1.6N/A diesel so I can go to the road admitance office to get her changed from 1300 carb. to diesel.
After that I'm going to build something nice for her. ;)
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OK here's a picture of them:
(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2569/17tdpistons5xe.th.jpg) (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17tdpistons5xe.jpg)
A couple pics that is:
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7315/17tdpistonsbottom5dm.th.jpg) (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17tdpistonsbottom5dm.jpg)
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is it possible to just bore the 1.6 NA block to fit the 1.7D pistons?
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@fatmobile: thanks for the images.
@2manVR6: Yes that can be done. With a 1900TD head fitted on the engineblock.
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Yeah, I put the picture of the old pistons next to the new 1.7s to show that the pin sits at the same height and is nearly the same diameter.
I'm putting these in a solid lifter 1.6TD block so i won't be able to use the 1.9 hydro head... but that would be a better setup.
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Why a solid lifter block?
Can't you drill the oil squirters in a hydro block and put the 1900TD head on it?
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hi all,
this a great topic for me, as i have realised that i have a rare engine, and in excelnt condition, so i have decided some weeks ago to turbo it, at the moment it does not have piston cut outs or the oil squirters,
i plan to get them machined into the block and bolt up a 1.6 head, 1.9 gasket, intercooler and see what sort of power it nets me. i figured that if i'm spending money on a rebuild why not start with a good base as the 1.7 is the best i have then that the way i'm heading.
what sort of powr do you recon it could make? 130 bhp with xtra fuel and boast.
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Why a solid lifter block?
Can't you drill the oil squirters in a hydro block and put the 1900TD head on it?
I don't have a hydrolic block and can't find one. I haven't done any boring and am hoping that one will show up soon and that I can afford it.
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Aha now it's clear to me. (my answer was allready there.... :oops: )
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hmmm the 1.7 piston is on the right in those pics??? it doesn't have the cutout for the piston oil squirter... if you install piston oil squirters with those pistons, won't be long before the oil squirters get trashed into the oil pan... or cause damage :(
is it possible to get 1.7 pistons with the squirter hole??? must be $$$ to get it done at a machine shop...
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hmmm the 1.7 piston is on the right in those pics???
no, that's a nasty old set of NA pistons.
Yeah, I put the picture of the old pistons next to the new 1.7s to show that the pin sits at the same height
The 1.7s are the new ones, on the left.... with the oil squirter slots
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OK here's a picture of them:
(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2569/17tdpistons5xe.th.jpg) (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17tdpistons5xe.jpg)
A couple pics that is:
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7315/17tdpistonsbottom5dm.th.jpg) (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17tdpistonsbottom5dm.jpg)
I pulled this off a post titled 1600 to 1700. The pistons on the left have what appears to be cut outs for oil squirters.
I would think this set-up would make for a nice high reving engine. Is it lack of piston availability that keeps this from happening?
Jim