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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 2mAn on January 06, 2007, 11:08:16 am
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already modified the BOV thingi so im runnin 8psi. where can i get the stuff needed to modify my LDA and also my wastegate? and how much psi should i be running after all that. obviously once thats done i wanna run more fuel too, any tips? im dynoing the car next week so im trying to get as much done prior to that. thanks
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what type of turbo do you have? all you need to modify the lda with is a flat head screw driver if you need help i can take mine apart and take pictures, maeka diy
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don't run anymore than 15 psi. even though i did lol :roll:
how do you like the td?
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here it is hopefully this helps
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=48634#48634
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already modified the BOV thingi so im runnin 8psi. where can i get the stuff needed to modify my LDA and also my wastegate? and how much psi should i be running after all that. obviously once thats done i wanna run more fuel too, any tips? im dynoing the car next week so im trying to get as much done prior to that. thanks
Ok iirc you have swapped a TD in and have a PP 2.5" down pipe, and 2.5" exhaust?
What do you have for Gauge's?
If you DO NOT have an EGT gauge leave the tuning until you do.
Once you have the gauge in here is a list of what tools you need to tune that pump/turbo combo to their ragged edge:
- Flat blade screw drivers one big one small
- 13mm wrench
- 11mm wrench
- nice sharp chisel (or some other way to remove the max fuel screw collar)
- bench grinder, or a file if you have forever
- pump timing tools
- manual boost controller (either ball and spring or homemade electric, my preference being the second, the bleed ones react slow and overshoot a lot.)
Now there is already a link in this thread to my old post of making power, but a here are a few more tips I have learned over the last couple of years since I first wrote that.
HG's are an iffy thing, I have always had great luck with stock ones and stock bolts all the way up and past 35psi. With that being said my latest motor is running a 1.9HG and I have studs sitting in my basement. After years and years of doing this I think most HG failures are cause by overheating and not by excessive boost. In any case be aware that this maybe an issue for you when you start cranking it up.
There is a ton of potential power in the boost pin, there are two ways of getting at it, the cheap way is to hack the crap outta your existing pin. Hillfolker has a great post, with pic's on that. The better but more expensive way is to get an "OLD SMOKEY, or clone" these pins are made from scratch and there max setting is deeper then the back edge of stock pin. Summit Racing sells these "BLY-42190" for ~ $186USD.
Next use the intake manifold as the pressure source for your boost controller, I have found after a ton of trial and error, that it provides the most constant source of pressure making your response far more linear then if taken of the turbo, just block of the turbo boost reference port and run it from the manifold, it works much better this way.
*****OKAY HERE IS THE BIG ONE*******
You are not tuning a gas motor, more boost means nothing!
Fuel is what you want! add air (boost) just to clean up and cool down the fuel that you are burning, anything more is just redundant.
So if you are truly wanting to tune your TD, your title to this thread should have read "ok, im officially a TD, now i want more fuel"
Have fun with it.
8)
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i wouldn't use a chisel, a small screw driver did it rather quickly for me
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ok for gauges i have 3 vdo gauges in the stock mk1 location and they are: voltage, boost and oil temp. i also have a autospruce egt gauge.
i want to get everything setup ASAP because i will be dynoing next weekend and i want to have a ~15psi setup when i so that i can adjust the fuel at the dyno and moniter the a/f ratio and egt's while on the safety of a dyno.
later, i will dyno again with the same setup with an intercooler. after that i will be saving to have giles mod my pump for max fuel, then i wanna boost at least 20psi from the t3.
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Why bother with the A/F ratio? It's gonna be lean anyway, even if you're blowing heavy black smoke out the tailpipe. Diesels burn lean.
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Why bother with the A/F ratio? It's gonna be lean anyway, even if you're blowing heavy black smoke out the tailpipe. Diesels burn lean.
ahhh now im starting understand it... that explains why a pyro gauge is so important. so if it runs lean and still blows smoke, is that smoke unburned fuel??
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you are one with your td... you are a td... now drive!
you are now officially... a td!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
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many people that it's unburned fuel, it's not, unburned fuel is white and leaves the car the same way it was injected. the black smoke is actually partially burned fuel. it's chemistry look it up lol.
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just get your wastegate set to 15 psi, and get as much fuel into it with out too much smoke and you'll do good
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Now I am a little leary doing this as I have already described exactly what you need to do, in a big long post that has been linked on this page. The reason for my apprehension is that you still are thinking of tuning this as a gas motor not as a diesel. As such your basic understanding of what is going on when you increase the power is lacking, this is what causes blown motors, more then anything else.
Is your pyro pre-turbo?
****Disclaimer***** You May Blow your motor, With taking it outside of factory specs, this is just for information purposes*****
- First thing, Pull your boost pin shave it like one of the pins found on this site / like the slash, shave it right from the deepest point to the base so it is no longer round. Bring the starwheel up 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Shave the nylon washer so you get full travel up the boost pin, you will be able to see the mark's on the boost pin, compare the distance from the end of the mark to the deepest part of the pin, shave the nylon washer that much. Place cut boost pin in with the deepest part of the cut facing the needle in the hole.
- Now set boost controller for ~24-26psi (use intake manifold for the boost reference) higher if you are comfortable with the possible result, boost (at this level) doesn't kill these motors, too much heat does.
-Back out the screw that limits the max rpm all the way. Adjust the throttle cable for max travel.
-Break off the max fuel screw collar, add about an 1/8th of a turn at a time as the Idle raises back out the idle screw on the back side of the pump (opposite of the one that you just removed for the max rpm) Do this until you have backed out the idle screw all the way. ***************** YOUR PUMP CAN RUNAWAY NEAR THIS POINT ************
as you make your adjustments block the wheels in the car, make your full fuel adjustment, get in the car start it rev it abit, if the RPM doesnt come back to idle ********SHUT IT OFF****** IF IT WILL NOT SHUT OFF***** SELECT 5TH GEAR AND STALL IT***** FOOT ON THE BRAKE AND DUMP THE CLUTCH*****
-Adjust pump so that it has the max fuel you can get without it running away.
-Set static timing for 1.05mm
-Up until this point everything you have done has been external.
-Do the Gov mod, this has been outlined with pics numerous times. Just shim the intermediate spring so it no longer functions and lightly preloads the main spring.
-Go dyno your car, be careful as with no intercooler you will get high egt's if you run WOT for any length of time. You won't want to get above ~1500F degrees pre-turbo. If this was done correctly you should run with 16V easily and your clutch will not like you for long. If you drive hard 020's will not like you for long either.
Get it, got it, good
:wink:
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Now I am a little leary doing this as I have already described exactly what you need to do, in a big long post that has been linked on this page. The reason for my apprehension is that you still are thinking of tuning this as a gas motor not as a diesel. As such your basic understanding of what is going on when you increase the power is lacking, this is what causes blown motors, more then anything else.
Is your pyro pre-turbo?
****Disclaimer***** You May Blow your motor, With taking it outside of factory specs, this is just for information purposes*****
- First thing, Pull your boost pin shave it like one of the pins found on this site / like the slash, shave it right from the deepest point to the base so it is no longer round. Bring the starwheel up 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Shave the nylon washer so you get full travel up the boost pin, you will be able to see the mark's on the boost pin, compare the distance from the end of the mark to the deepest part of the pin, shave the nylon washer that much. Place cut boost pin in with the deepest part of the cut facing the needle in the hole.
- Now set boost controller for ~24-26psi (use intake manifold for the boost reference) higher if you are comfortable with the possible result, boost (at this level) doesn't kill these motors, too much heat does.
-Back out the screw that limits the max rpm all the way. Adjust the throttle cable for max travel.
-Break off the max fuel screw collar, add about an 1/8th of a turn at a time as the Idle raises back out the idle screw on the back side of the pump (opposite of the one that you just removed for the max rpm) Do this until you have backed out the idle screw all the way. ***************** YOUR PUMP CAN RUNAWAY NEAR THIS POINT ************
as you make your adjustments block the wheels in the car, make your full fuel adjustment, get in the car start it rev it abit, if the RPM doesnt come back to idle ********SHUT IT OFF****** IF IT WILL NOT SHUT OFF***** SELECT 5TH GEAR AND STALL IT***** FOOT ON THE BRAKE AND DUMP THE CLUTCH*****
-Adjust pump so that it has the max fuel you can get without it running away.
-Set static timing for 1.05mm
-Up until this point everything you have done has been external.
-Do the Gov mod, this has been outlined with pics numerous times. Just shim the intermediate spring so it no longer functions and lightly preloads the main spring.
-Go dyno your car, be careful as with no intercooler you will get high egt's if you run WOT for any length of time. You won't want to get above ~1500F degrees pre-turbo. If this was done correctly you should run with 16V easily and your clutch will not like you for long. If you drive hard 020's will not like you for long either.
Get it, got it, good
:wink:
should be listed in the faq as: How to Melt your Engine!
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how to have fun
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should be listed in the faq as: How to Melt your Engine!
The funny thing is I ran my motor like that for 2+ years, I blew one turbo, after having run it at 35psi+ for a year. I killed 2 stock clutches and then went to a six puck clutch and went through 3 020's in two months. The engine still ran fine, with stock HG, and stock head bolts. I only got rid of the car because it had some serious cancer, and body damage. In fact Iirc Dave @ Passenger Performance still has the engine as a long block in his shop. As many members here will tell you I beat that engine everyday.
Heat kills these motors more then anything else. Imho three things that NEED to be watched in order for the motor to survive at what ever fueling you can get out of a stock pump are: 1. Excessive EGT's, 2. High water temps, 3. High oil temps. An aux oil cooler, and an intercooler, go a long way on those, but egt's still need to be watched closely.
But you are absolutely right, if you don't know what you are doing, this recipe can melt your motor. It also is the recipe for power.
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bringing this back up to the top...
i just got a manual boost controller and i want to install it, so i can turn up the fuel and the boost at the same time.
for fuel, im only going to mess with the star wheel, probably start with one full turn and take it from there...ive already turned the boost pin
as far as the boost controller goes, i just want to double check the vacuum line that i need to T into beforehand.
heres a pic i stole from another thread
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b346/11111111111111111/Volkswagen/3a_1.jpg)
the line pictured here is the one i need to T into, correct?
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bringing this back up to the top...
i just got a manual boost controller and i want to install it, so i can turn up the fuel and the boost at the same time.
for fuel, im only going to mess with the star wheel, probably start with one full turn and take it from there...ive already turned the boost pin
as far as the boost controller goes, i just want to double check the vacuum line that i need to T into beforehand.
heres a pic i stole from another thread
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b346/11111111111111111/Volkswagen/3a_1.jpg)
the line pictured here is the one i need to T into, correct?
BAM! yea man thats the line you want to tap into. it's the only line going to the wastegate :wink:
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Yeah, that black rubber hose is nice and ripe for snipping (one cut somewhere in the middle). You don't want to "T" into it, though, it should look like this:
(http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/images/LET/new_turbo/boost_controller_fitted.jpg)
image link if the above picture does not show (http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/images/LET/new_turbo/boost_controller_fitted.jpg)
In the middle of the picture is a manual boost controller in brass colour, with a red sticker. Just below it is the turbo wastegate. The black hose running to the left of the boost controller goes to the compressor housing.
If you use a "T" in the rubber hose between the compressor housing and WG, then the boost will still travel from the compressor housing directly to the wastegate so your boost controller won't do anything.
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BAM! yea man thats the line you want to tap into. it's the only line going to the wastegate :wink:
thats what i figured, just wanted to make sure before i chopped it up :) its kind of hard to see it at night in my garage
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Yeah, that black rubber hose is nice and ripe for snipping (one cut somewhere in the middle). You don't want to "T" into it, though, it should look like this:
(http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/images/LET/new_turbo/boost_controller_fitted.jpg)
image link if the above picture does not show (http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/images/LET/new_turbo/boost_controller_fitted.jpg)
In the middle of the picture is a manual boost controller in brass colour, with a red sticker. Just below it is the turbo wastegate. The black hose running to the left of the boost controller goes to the compressor housing.
If you use a "T" in the rubber hose between the compressor housing and WG, then the boost will still travel from the compressor housing directly to the wastegate so your boost controller won't do anything.
not sure exactly what to do then, this is the "ebay special" i bought..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BLUE-MANUAL-TURBO-BOOST-CONTROLLER-FOR-CIVIC-INTEGRA_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ012QQitemZ220082026115QQrdZ1
no instructions :roll:
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I've been thinking about this a bit lately. If one were to disconnect their wastegate, and let the turbo boost to whatever it wants, without making any fueling changes, you'd be using up whatever leftover fuel is available, netting in a small power increase (and clean exhaust!). So say you do this and you're getting 15psi or whatever. If you make small changes to the fueling, therefore increasing your boost, you still should be running pretty lean because the boost is still limited by the fuel available. So instead of cranking up the fueling and then limiting the boost, and having all this fuel left over (black smoke) creating high egt's, you do it the other way around and you're assured cooler EGT's, because any extra fuel would be automatically soaked up by extra boost anyway. Does this make any sense?
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Here's a very similar model:
http://www.diesel-speed-shop.com/index_fichiers/Page3663.htm
French but the pictures are fine... note that the T goes in-line with the wastegate hose and then runs to the needle valve.
Some people do the same thing with aquarium tees and valves. Basically you're bleeding wastegate pressure to trick the wastegate into thinking the turbo is not putting out as much pressure as it really is.
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I've been thinking about this a bit lately. If one were to disconnect their wastegate, and let the turbo boost to whatever it wants, without making any fueling changes, you'd be using up whatever leftover fuel is available, netting in a small power increase (and clean exhaust!). So say you do this and you're getting 15psi or whatever. If you make small changes to the fueling, therefore increasing your boost, you still should be running pretty lean because the boost is still limited by the fuel available. So instead of cranking up the fueling and then limiting the boost, and having all this fuel left over (black smoke) creating high egt's, you do it the other way around and you're assured cooler EGT's, because any extra fuel would be automatically soaked up by extra boost anyway. Does this make any sense?
i have mine this way...
still some smoke as the turbo is not spooling but when spooling it will clear.
if i add more fuel it will start to smoke,even on boost range...
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I've been thinking about this a bit lately. If one were to disconnect their wastegate, and let the turbo boost to whatever it wants, without making any fueling changes, you'd be using up whatever leftover fuel is available, netting in a small power increase (and clean exhaust!). So say you do this and you're getting 15psi or whatever. If you make small changes to the fueling, therefore increasing your boost, you still should be running pretty lean because the boost is still limited by the fuel available. So instead of cranking up the fueling and then limiting the boost, and having all this fuel left over (black smoke) creating high egt's, you do it the other way around and you're assured cooler EGT's, because any extra fuel would be automatically soaked up by extra boost anyway. Does this make any sense?
I have mine this way right now with only some RPM mods, and a really cut fuel pin, on a hard pull I can hit ~30psi, nice and clear the only time it smokes is if I lug it, keep the rev's up and it is nice.
One other note: In my expericance it is better to run the boost line from the manifold to the boost controller to the wastegate, it helps smooth boost spikes and drops a ton. Then just take and plug the line coming from the turbo.
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I've been thinking about this a bit lately. If one were to disconnect their wastegate, and let the turbo boost to whatever it wants, without making any fueling changes, you'd be using up whatever leftover fuel is available, netting in a small power increase (and clean exhaust!). So say you do this and you're getting 15psi or whatever. If you make small changes to the fueling, therefore increasing your boost, you still should be running pretty lean because the boost is still limited by the fuel available. So instead of cranking up the fueling and then limiting the boost, and having all this fuel left over (black smoke) creating high egt's, you do it the other way around and you're assured cooler EGT's, because any extra fuel would be automatically soaked up by extra boost anyway. Does this make any sense?
i have mine this way...
still some smoke as the turbo is not spooling but when spooling it will clear.
if i add more fuel it will start to smoke,even on boost range...
my wastegate is stuck shut, and really the smoke depends on how you have your lda set.