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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Toolbox on November 20, 2006, 11:21:48 pm

Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Toolbox on November 20, 2006, 11:21:48 pm
Hi I just bought a 1980 Rabbit that refuses to run. When I bought it the guy it had sat for 3 years but while i was looking at it he got it running a bunch of times for just a few seconds and then it quit. Then he pulled it around the yard with his pickup trying to get it to run but it just wouldn"t stay running. It turned out pretty well for me because i talked him down to $100 and bought an extra engine(with Injector pump) head and transmission for another $100.  

Unfortunalty, I haven't had even nearly the success that he had. I can't get the thing anywhere near running and have tried spraying ether in it and everything. Someone told me that I have to prime the injector pump but I'm having a hard time finding info on how to do that.

Things I have done -

Tried connecting the injector pump directly to a bottle of diesel by hooking up a hose with primed with diesel to both ends - no result.

Poured diesel in the inlet of the injector pump in an attempt to prime the pump. Kept filling it for about 5 minutes. - Engine fired but died quickly

Sprayed Ether in the airbox - the engine pinged and smoked like crazy but didn't run.

I really need this car to run!! I'm usually pretty good with cars but that Injector pump is a huge question mark for me. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Doug on November 21, 2006, 06:09:08 pm
First, check the fuel shut off solenoid for operation. You may have to remove it from the injection pump to free up the plunger from the seat. Check it in free air by applying a voltage to it to see that it really works. They like to stick closed after a while.

Don't use ether!!!
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: burn_your_money on November 21, 2006, 06:38:58 pm
Quote
Don't use ether!!!


For real, the short term benifiets are not worth the long term damage.

Check your glow plugs, starter, battery, stop solenoid, timing, compression...
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: LeeG on November 23, 2006, 10:21:02 pm
Quote
Poured diesel in the inlet of the injector pump in an attempt to prime the pump. Kept filling it for about 5 minutes. - Engine fired but died quickly  


I think your on the right track.  Fill the pump up to the top.  Fill the filter up.  Loosen the injector lines then crank it over until fuel is seeping out of them, then retighten.  Now try to start.  It wont run well until all the air is purged.  If there is enough air in the high pressure side, it may never prime by just cranking without loosening the injector lines.  It can't compress air enough to pop the injectors so the air never goes anywhere.
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Toolbox on November 24, 2006, 02:39:38 pm
Sorry I haven't been on to update but with Thanksgiving I've had little time to work on the car.

OK so I primed to pump, cracked one of the Injector Lines and found it's not pushing any fuel through it. I also replaced the fuel filter and filled it and have been trying to run it off that. I did get it to run for a few seconds after I plugged it in and then tried to tow start it but I'm pretty sure it was just running on leftover ether. I haven't followed any of the advice on here yet because I didn't log on. I'll try this stuff tomorrow and let you guys know what happens.
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Malacaco on November 24, 2006, 03:01:08 pm
i seriously doubt that the injection pump has any pressure. After 3 years it must be all rusty. You need to open it and probably replace a lot of elements.

I bought a golf (rabbit in the US) that was laying in a parking lot  for 3 months and the pump was already dead. Costed me about 400 Euros (about 480$) to repair it.
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: jtanguay on November 24, 2006, 09:41:18 pm
well if the pump had fuel in it while it sat, then there shouldn't be any problems with the internals all rusty etc.  now if the car was let sit because of a fuel related issue, then yeah the injection pump is probably shot...
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: burn_your_money on November 25, 2006, 06:15:38 am
Quote from: "jtanguay"
well if the pump had fuel in it while it sat, then there shouldn't be any problems with the internals all rusty etc.  now if the car was let sit because of a fuel related issue, then yeah the injection pump is probably shot...


My thoughts exactly.

It may just need to be dragged around for a while (I find reverse works well) The vavles that allow fuel to exit the IP to the injectors maybe sticking which is why it's not firing. If you fill it with ATF, drag it around so that the ATF gets circulated into the pump and then let it sit for a day or 2, the ATF may loosen it up. I think the pump holds about a quart of ATF so you may need to run about a gallon through it. Rig it up to feed from the jug for about 1 quart, and then have it recirculating back into the jug and drag it around some more. Just don't go to fast, you don't want to over rev it

Actually, the first thing you should do is check the condition of your timing belt and then check the timing, if you are way off it's never going to start
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Toolbox on November 25, 2006, 08:26:17 am
I should have mentioned more in my last post. I saw someone recommend putting ATF in the pump in a previous post so I gave that a whirl. It didn't seem to make an immediate difference but maybe by now it's freed up something. That was also before I towed it around town. The timing belt dosen't have any cracking or excessive wear but I don't know quite how to check the timing, I'm sure it's on this site somewhere so I'll do some fishing.....hey, that's what work is for, right?

BTW: The car was parked because a tree fell on it. It's a beautiful car  :roll:
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: jtanguay on November 25, 2006, 07:26:20 pm
Quote from: Toolbox

BTW: The car was parked because a tree fell on it. It's a beautiful car  :roll:


what a way to go!!!  poor car :(
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Toolbox on November 26, 2006, 04:31:00 pm
OK I got it running!!! Here's what went wrong and what went right.

I checked the power to the fuel shut off switch for power and it did so I cracked all the lines and turned it over until they were all spraying fuel (Actually ATF) Then when I reconnected them the engine turned over right away. Unfortunatly, it would do little more than idle and then it died. After it died I cracked the pump and it wasn't full anymore. I checked all my hoses and the return line off the top of the pump was tore so I replaced that and then everything seemed to work fine. I left it idle for a while but now whenever I give it gas it seems to stick there. When I shut it off it goes back to idle but it won't if I just let it sit there. What do you suppose causes that?
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: burn_your_money on November 26, 2006, 05:39:36 pm
Good to hear you got it running :D

So if you rev it up it won't come back down at all? You have to turn the engine off and then restart it to get it to idle at proper idle speeds?
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: jtanguay on November 27, 2006, 05:47:17 am
sounds like residual fueling to me... how long was this pump left out? maybe something is sticking... i'd say let it run with atf for a bit... clean it out :)  rev her up once she's warmed up.
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Toolbox on November 27, 2006, 04:24:51 pm
Yeah it's like the throttle gets stuck. It dosen't do it at low rev but if I give it a little more throttle than normal it sticks. If I'm driving it it's not noticable because I just put it in a higher gear and bring the engine down to normal.

It also has oil in the airbox. If I clean it out and drive it around for 5-10 minutes there's some in there again. If I run some more ATF through it do you think it'll help that out too?

(I wouldn't exactly say it's running away. If I hit the ignition it'll shut off)
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: burn_your_money on November 27, 2006, 04:48:36 pm
take off the oil filler cap with the engine running and feel how much blow by there is. If it's excessive you probably need new rings. A clogged intake could also cause excessive oil blow by. Make sure you have the black cam over installed
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Toolbox on November 27, 2006, 05:04:06 pm
Hmm...the clogged intake seems like it could be an issue. When I was first getting it running it really didn't even start at first using ether, in fact it started right up when I got the IP primed but it never started like that when I was spraying ether into the airbox. The throttle does stick even when I have the airbox open with no air filter.
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: burn_your_money on November 27, 2006, 06:25:08 pm
is it the cable sticking or the pump?
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Toolbox on November 27, 2006, 09:03:25 pm
The cable returns to it's place and so does the throttle control lever on the pump. Even so the engine will continue at a higher RPM.
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: burn_your_money on November 27, 2006, 09:12:08 pm
When you turn the car off is it a clean shut down or does the engine kind of slowly rev down or bog out? If so it's probably leaky injectors
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Toolbox on November 28, 2006, 12:31:34 pm
Yes, it does exactly that. Will cleaning them help that out?
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: jtanguay on November 29, 2006, 04:01:18 pm
i dont think you can clean leaky injectors.  send them over to Smog for new nozzles and shims so that they break at the right pressure.

most likely they are just worn out
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: burn_your_money on November 29, 2006, 04:46:44 pm
Quote from: "jtanguay"

most likely they are just worn out


Exactly. Either buy new ones or have yours rebuilt. You can try running a can of diesel purge, it might help but I doubt it will solve the problem.
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Doug on November 29, 2006, 07:01:43 pm
Who is Smog???
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: burn_your_money on November 29, 2006, 07:22:57 pm
Quote from: "Doug"
Who is Smog???


http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=998
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Doug on November 29, 2006, 07:49:13 pm
Interesting thread. Is he in the vendors section and does he answer to an email address? Have tried to get in touch with Jake recently but there seems to be no response there.
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: burn_your_money on November 30, 2006, 04:26:39 am
Yeah he's in the vendors section. I've never tried contacting him so I don't know. I hear that Jake has some personal matters to take care of but will be back. The exact reason is in one of his threads in the vendors section (In case I'm not remebering correctly)
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: Toolbox on December 02, 2006, 12:04:29 pm
Ok I'm pretty sure it's fixed. It dosen't do it anymore anyway....

There isn't a cam shield installed. That's problem #1. So I get Oil redidue in my airbox.

Problem #2 is the air filter was crap. So I replaced it. Made a big difference.

So I since the engine couldn't suck enough air through the filter it was getting it from the valve cover and sucking oil in with it. I also changed the oil because the stuff that was in there was very thin, which made it easier for the engine to suck up.

It actually runs pretty good now. It starts hard if not plugged in, but it's pretty cold right now. Maybe still a little warmer than Canada. but cold.  :D

Thanks for all the help guys ! I'd post some pictures but no matter how well it runs it's always going to be Ugly!!!
Title: 1980 1.6 Rabbit No-Start
Post by: burn_your_money on December 02, 2006, 03:51:42 pm
Quote from: Toolbox
I'd post some pictures but no matter how well it runs it's always going to be Ugly!!!


That's no excuse, post em up.

Have you checked your glow plugs? If the engine is cold you can have a friend cycle the glows and you touch them to see if they are warm, Not the best test but it will give you an idea. Change them all if you have to change one and then keep the good ones for spares.