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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: burn_your_money on November 14, 2006, 06:57:40 pm
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Does anyone know where I can get a replacement feed line from the filter to the pump. The dealer want's $230 for the line :roll: I seem to recall seeing a thread somewhere with someone selling them for $30?
I'm pulling in alot of air and my car is not happy about it at all
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Check EBay. Some guy sells the clear line for around 19.00
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thanks
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from what I understand nylon tubing....
is good resists everything under the sun....
I will see if I can find a post about this......
you don't need to spend alot of money on this.
but you can if you would like to...
350 bucks...... :lol: :P
Are you sure it is the plastic line?
you could test it with some air pressure...
not from a compressor but a hand pump.
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I actually am not sure where it's leaking from. :oops: The guy I bought the car off of said he tried all sorts of things to make it stop but it never did. I've bid on one on ebay, $10. Having a spare never hurt anyone. If this doesn't solve it I'll start some troubleshooting with a compressor.
The return lines are 1/4 inch right? the ones between the injectors that is...
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burn_your_money: Nylon hose works VERY well, but is a pain in the ass to install. I got a new hose as part of a Viton hose kit from greaseworks.org, which cost me $113 for the whole kit, nylon line included. Not sure of the ID of the line I put in. I recommend a hair drier to help soften the line for installation, and be sure to get it a little long as I bent mine double a couple times before getting it on right.
As for the air-in-the-supply-line problem:
I've got the same problem and just finished talking to the local VW shop about it. What I was told is that the hoses are not a likely source for the amount of air that's getting into the system unless something else is wrong. What they've seen with other cars is a blocked screen in the tank. I started running biodiesel in the car a few months ago, and it's likely that my tank screen is so plugged that the pump is sucking whatever it can get, even the tiniest of little holes that wouldn't effect it without the blockage.
I plan to drop the tank this weekend and give it a good cleaning. Hopefully that'll take care of it. Sadly, I just filled it up last night so I've got to find a place for 11 gallons of fuel...
Anyone else got any ideas?
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Interesting this should come up. I moved my filter to the passenger side fender well about a year ago. For the longest time, I was using two stock plastic lines spliced together going from the filter to the pump.
I was still getting little bubbles, so I changed it for clear plastic tubing that I found at Lowe's... most likely 1/4" ID clear PVC. Worked fine for a while, but I run B100 when it's warm, so after about three months, I noticed it had lost its flexibility and had started to get brittle. Whoops.
One day at work, I noticed we had some spare polyurethane air line (for equipment) laying around. It was blue in color and somewhat stiff like the stock VW line. I tried soaking a section of it in bio for several weeks and it came out unaffected. Great! I used it on my TD and it's been doing fine for several months. Not hard to install... it fits right over the banjo barb fitting and I put a hose clamp on top just to make sure.
SMC makes the tubing and I believe the reference is TIUB-11 or something like that... Try this link:
http://www.smcusa.com/sections/products/fittings_tubings.asp
I believe it might only come in spools, but you'll have to see. I might have some extra if you'd like to try it...
The return lines are 1/4 inch right? the ones between the injectors that is...
I think they're 1/8" ID actually... Haven't found a good source for those. I've been using cloth wrapped diesel "spillover" line meant for that purpose from the local shop, but that's not bio rated. They get soft after a few months and end up causing air to weep back to the pump. Not sure if nylon or poly would work in that app or not.
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http://[/http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1254083
This is some good info....
SAR J30R9............ I am using Dayco Gen 2 fuel injection line
it has a fluorolastomer inner lining.....
as for the vinyl......
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=7513&product%5Fid=8004
This one here is one that I found but, there was another.....
And It was the one I liked.... It came in different colors.
based on the od of the tubing and most of all like the one
above it is TRANSLUCENT......... So you can see the fluid
moving through the line....thus see air....
I think it was hipifreg who was saying
that he heated the line with a hair dryer to bend it....
That is very slick............Why was it a PITA...............
Did it distort much?(become oval) and
I have had probs with air..... driving me crazy..............
I am gonna check the pickup screen for blockage............
I also heard something about injector pump gear
seal... can sometimes suck air............... I haven't
encountered that but, just throwing it out there.
HipiFreg why do you have to drop the tank?
Is this a caddy????
what is the vehicle.......
Jetta 2a is in the truck...
Isn't the A1 under the back seat.?
I will look for the other link on vinyl tubing.
Monst :wink:
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Today I noticed that when I rev it up past about 2000 that the return line basically fills with foam. Anything below 2000 and there are no (or very little) air bubbles. It seems when I rev it high like that that it will take a few moments for the air bubbles to show up in the feed line, so I'm suspecting my problem with the feed line is closer to the tank somewhere, now I'm just concerned about the return line
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monst: I've got a '80 Dasher which has an easy-access tank under the trunk. The fuel lines are all right there, but to get into the tank itself I need to take it out. No access through the trunk like the wagon :( but that could be good 'cause I've heard the wagon tank is a PITA.
As for the hair dryer on the nylon fuel supply line: It's really quite rigid and needs to be heated just a little to get it onto the banjo fittings. I tried body temperature, but it didn't work. The hair dryer works GREAT, but if you soften too much then the line can bend over and split when pushing it onto the banjo. Once it bends you need to cut that chunk off and try again.
Hopefully I'll get past family obligations and pull the tank this weekend. I'll post pics and a description when it's done. If it cures the bubbles then I'll be most happy.
Also, the temperature has gone up here, and the bubbles have gone down enough for me to drive without choking the engine. Makes me believe even more that it's solids congealing in the tank from past diesel crud and biodiesel fats.
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Ok, Yeah, so you heat it up to
get it over the banjo fittings....
Yeah, my setup is a little different.
91 jetta na...
Last night I pulled the sending unit
out... it was clean as a whistle.... but,
it is a wierd set up.. it is spring loaded.
when it is placed back in the tank, it appears
to not fit in the tank. then you press on it and
it compresses about an inch or two......
I will have to get a new tank gasket. I noticed
it is torn a little.
I replaced all the lines that were rubber
with dayco gen II fuel injection line... it
is rated as : SAE j30r9.... a little cheaper
than viton but, it is rated the same.....
So anyway, the jetta has two check valves
on the system... one on feed, one on return
the feed one is after the water separator. It
is in the vertical position only inches after the
water separator(passengers side before long
plastic lines). Well, I tried to blow through this
check valve.... It was clogged..... It is possible
that this is my restriction.... I removed the check
valve from the system.... I priced one out at the
local dealer weeks back... they wanted 48 bucks
for it... I couldn't help but, laugh..... I can't buy this
thing.... it cost 4 cents to make..
The car is running better... more power.... but still idles rough and
there is still air..... I just wonder if it will work itself
out...... I was thinking of maybe refilling the filter
and get all the air out of there. I guess I could lower
the water separator, fill that too and then see if the
air still infiltrates the system......
I think I may run the car out of a bucket of
fuel again.... I will do this with out the filter and
then with the filter. Just to establish that the idle
improves..... Yeah, it idles much smoother and
has more power when the is no air in the system.
It just has been a while since it was running like this.
So before I jump to another approach I want to establish
that it is running good or bad with respect to the fuel delivery..
I start to think that maybe it is something else
IE:(timing belt skipped time)....
Well that is what my weekend was like
"Burn you money" did you notice with respect to air
in the system... did you notice power loss as well?
and it idles poorly, correct?
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Well monst, you got WAY more done this weekend than I did. Unfortunately I didn't do the tank Saturday, and then on Sunday when I had planned to do it the rain was pouring all day. SIGH. Hopefully next weekend.
Thanks for the idea about the bucket of fuel. I think I'll take the supply line just before the filter and stick the end of it into a cup of fuel and run off that for a bit. If I still get air then it's not worth dropping the tank just yet as the problem is with the filter unit.
I wish it was either still summer so I had light after work OR I had a garage. We're looking for a house, and the wife's requirement is a mud room, mine is a functional garage.
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Yeah, weather can sometimes be prohibitve.
My weekend was rather interesting.......
I did the lines on Sunday. prior to this
I was awake for 40+ hours. Did a road
trip up to Freeport Maine to the 24 hour
LLBean store. The allnighter was not intentional
just happened that way.... Shopped from 3am to
about 6am. Lost track of the day.... kind of nice...
The bucket of fuel is a very good Idea. I will not
be the creditor but, the bearer of good information.
Yeah, get yourself a pail 1-2 gal... stick it on
the floor run some 1/4 id for return, 5/16 id for
the feed... and two couplings for the hoses.....
fill the bucket with a gallon of nice clean diesel.
let it run for a while and observe how it runs....
Some guys will even strap in a small container
and take it for a drive after all the air is out.....
see how it performs..... If you where to do either
of the checks, is your feed and return clear?
So that you can visually inspect for air?
That clogged check valve seems to be my find....
I just hope it hasn't f'd up my motor..... due to lack
of fuel in the motor while running.
THIS is a must do...(i think anyway)....
I was reading about placing a lighted vacuum gauge
on the fuel feed side... as close to the IP as possible and
after the filter. cut it in on the rubber hose.... it gets mounted
in the dash of the car... when the filter is new it will read
0 psi....... as the filter gets dirty it will create vacuum....
this is bad.... and the gauge on the dash will tell you when
to change the filter...... and from what I have read........
3 psi.... go buy the filter and have it in the car.........
5 psi.... too late to buy filter.... but, you have one(hopefully)
in the car....... So change it.
Back to the air in the line stuff..................
Are yo udriving an 80 dasher???? I cant remember if
it came up what you are driving.
Yeah you can to this bucket test and work you
way back through the system if you wanted to .........
IE: before fillter then after filter, then at rear wheel well.......
etc......................
I think I got all the air out of mine now...... a restriction
will increase vacuum..... and draw air in from any viable
point. mine being the O-ring on the fuel filter............
Monst
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Glad to hear you got the air out monst! Have you seen any pictures online of the vacuum gauge setup you mentioned? Sounds like a great way to deal with fuel supply issues.
Well, I got an email yesterday about problems with the latest batch of biodiesel coming out of the local manufacturer here. They use virgin soybean oil as their input, and apparently soybean oil in particular can produce a milky-white precipitate that will settle in the tank and clog filters.
Could be what's causing the system to suck air. I'll still do the hose-in-a-bucket test, but will have a fuel filter on hand as well.
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I haven't had a chance to do any troubleshooting. I've put 2000+ kms on the car since I oringally posted and haven't look at the lines. Maybe the air worked it's way out....
I don't know if my car ever had more power because I bought it this way.
I plan on buying a gallon of ATF and runing my lines into that. I plan on starting at the pump and seeing how it runs, then moving back to the filter, then back to the connection right before the steel lines etc etc until I start getting air, then whatever is between where the line is hooked up and the last check should be bad so I'll replace it. I really hope it's not my pump
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Yeah, When I find the vac gauge I will post it......
so every one can get one................
As for a restriction......... I think once there is
a restriction in the system...(where ever it may be)
the O-ring on the filter is the place it sucks it in....
I also noticed that after the air was not being drawn
into the fuel system anymore.. (meaning no more air)
It still ran rough at idle........ NOw , after 200 miles
or so it seems to be running smoother...... This is
just a guess but.... all that air I am guessing leaves
less room for lubrication... of the fuel system parts....
I am guessing at this one..... If anyone can chime in
on this... + of -...... would be good to hear..............
Yeah, I was worried there for a while.... thinkin....
shirt!!! I clamped all the hoses thinking that I had
a leaky hose clamp..... an I tightend up the system
and now I forced the vacuum to suck through the
IP seal...... but that o-ring is kind of safety feature
in some ways......... "like a dam with the weakest point."
etc.etc.
Yeah, when you do the test for air.... by running out of
the bucket...... not only look at the air change but, listen
the motor sounds different...... I think it gets quieter.....
That is messed up about the Biodiesel...............
DOes it look bad...... too? I am gonna home brew soon....
just wondering... I will never know what kind of oil it is....
HEY BURN YO MONEY......
What are you driving?? is it one of those eco-diesels???
You should see if you have check valves on the system
I don't know if all Mk-2's have check valves .. probably though...
The idea of the check valve is to prevent siphoning of the
fuel back to the tank.......
I haven't picked up a new check valve... I just removed it......
"your clogged then you are history"..... My life is slightly better now.
So what I am saying don't get bogged down with all the other
possiblities.... If you have a check valve on the feed and the
return..... pop them out and blow through them with your mouth
(clean it off first of course) but... if you can blow both ways on
that pup then it is clogged... and look closely at it... you will
see a little triangle type arrow mark on it..............
I am gonna see if I can buy one of those valve somewhere
at a non-thieving price....... first price found 48 bucks us
then 33 bucks us........ I think the moes have the decimal
place messed up...... I won't pay more the 4 bucks.......
I would rather wipe my buttocks with the money I save
than give it to them.............. buttocks is ok to say? right....
well, enough of the diahria of the mouth here... good luck..