VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 2mAn on October 27, 2006, 03:39:03 pm
-
i only ask because soon i want to upgrade the exhaust on mine with a TT setup (either 2" or 2.25")... but im the kind of guy who also wants to dumb the toilet bowl manifold in favor of something like a dual outlet + TT downpipe combo or even a full on 8v header. in addition i have an extra diesel head (from my 79 rabbit) that id like to port out and install with a mk2 intake manifold. id like to throw a cam in too, but does anyone make a cam for a NA diesel? and i want to do this all at the same time....
is this just a waste of time?
FYI my car is an 84 jetta coupe with an NA diesel. it has 274k and its still going. motor wise its all stock but i have the "Super" Injection Pump from Giles at Superior Fuel
-
Well IMO it is a nice thing to put 2.5 In pipe with muffler, and you could Port and Polish the head but I would take the time to PP a Turbo Diesel Head. I would jsut save up for a TD motor, prepare your car for the motor IE 2.5" exhaust system, cold air intake, make prep the car for intercooler, but keep it NA for now get good milleage and then do the T swap.
If you want to cam the TD motor there is some one on the form with Cams for the TD motor, and get an intercooler.
You could pull more power out of the NA with PP and do some pump mods, but are limited without a turbo.
-
Is your 79 head with 11mm studs? If soit won't work on your 84. Just something to keep in mind.
If I was going to invest money into an engine I'd get a 1.9 head with a 1.6TD bottom end and go from there. There's just so much more potential.
BTW, how did the new pump feel?
-
Is your 79 head with 11mm studs? If soit won't work on your 84. Just something to keep in mind.
If I was going to invest money into an engine I'd get a 1.9 head with a 1.6TD bottom end and go from there. There's just so much more potential.
BTW, how did the new pump feel?
im not sure about the studs on the head, i probably wont be able to use it. im just gonna have to save up for a TD motor i think, but luckily i found a shop close by that actually does stuff with vw diesels so im sure he will have something to help.
the pump iS SUPER!! made a BIG difference, these motors have really impressed me, i picked up my coupe a lil over a year ago with 250k on it, completely stock, i got some suspension, then i needed a pump so i paid a lil extra for the Super pump and im so glad i did. this engine has 274k+ and its taken a lot of right foot from me and just keeps going!!
-
can i turn up the fuel screw on my super pump? i havent touched it at all since i got it, and its travel was a lot less than the original pump was turned up to.
-
yeah you can turn it up, it's addicting, worse than crack haha. well atleast worse than cigarrettes, and the better you get that thing to breathe ie exhaust intake etc the more fuel you can add and the more power you'll get. i'd get an egt and then turn her up, and you can get get the cheaper ones too that are kind like a hose clamp with a needle since you won't have boost pressure behind it. and with that you can add lots of fuel, i bet you will be able to make it smoke like crazy unlike any of our tds could since there would be alot less back pressure
-
The A1 diesel toilet bowl exhaust mani on a rabbit is a very good mani, it's the downpipe dia that's too small, have a muffler shop replace the tiny tube with some 2.25...The gasser rabbits and the A2 toilet bowl manis are a joke..choke the heck out of the engine.
You can get a N/A to make td numbers. first get some 1.7D pistons. A 1.7d makes around 59hp stock, add a free flowing exhaust, port the head, bump the timing, gov mod, and you'll be pretty happy without the turbo hassel. A good exhaust is normally good for 10%...so just the pistons and an exhaust is very close to stock td #'s and already better than an eco-diesel. port and polish and pump mods and the 70-80hp range should be attainable and with less weight and heat.
One problem is the 1.7d pistons require a 1,9 HG. the 1.6 HG the bore is too small.
And for you turbo freaks :D the 1.7D pistons have the cutout in the skirt for turbo apps, plus they're coated from the factory...ummhh yummy. I have a set they're an 80mm bore.
-
How far can you bore a 1.6TD? mine has stock pistons now it is marked on the pistons 78.6 or 76.8mm I think. I will check when I get home. I have the head off and the bore has a pit in it from sitting in a junkyard with moisture........
-
the diesels can take a deep cut
-
The problem might be finding pistons. A 1.9TD is just a bored/stroked 1.6TD if that gives you any ideas
For 1.6TD
Original is 76.48
1st over 76.73
2nd over 76.98
3rd over 77.48
-
I have some 79.5mm 1,7's made for the 1.6 block
-
Where can I get some of these 80 mm pistons?
-
My injection pump is starting to give up the ghost and I need a new one...are you happy with the Giles pump? How much did it cost, and are they safe for biodiesel/veggie oil? What difference did it make exactly in how the engine ran--more low-end torque, more revs, ?? Last question--do you know if he's able to supply the pumps that have the fast-idle linked to the cold-start lever? That's an upgrade I'd like to make to my Rabbit.
Thanks--
George
-
I'm get then from the fatherland
-
Sillly question, but if the 1.9n is a bored/stoked 1.6, why not use the 1.9 pistons and bore the 1.6?
What size are the 1.9 pistons? They may have to be bushed or are they taller than the 1.6?
Bernie
-
1,9td block is taller
-
If the block is taller and the stroke is longer then how about the pistons? What is the height of the pistons from pin to dome compared to the 1.6 pistons? I tried to look for piston specs for bothbut I could not source any good info from the web.
Bernie
-
The compression height of 1,9 turbo pistons is ~45mm, 1,9 non turbo ~39mm and 1,6 ~41mm. The 1,9 turbo also has bigger pin than others, 26mm/24mm.
-
So the best bet would be the NA 1.9 pistons which would lower compression slightly. The pin size difference could be bushed at the piston or maybe enlarged at the rod?
Bernie
-
1,9NA has same 24mm pin as 1,6. You will need longer rod and/or cut the block, compression will drop way too much.
-
Since we're speculating about combinations --
I've been looking at putting the 1.6 NA diesel head on the block used by the 1.8l 16 valve gasser. That block has the same stroke, same main bearings and same big end rod bearings as the 1.6 diesel and as a bonus has piston squirters and is commonly tweaked to 180 to 200 hp with 15 psi of boost, spinning at over 6500 rpm ... a really stout block. In fact those turbogasser guys often use diesel cranks in these gasser blocks. The pistons and rods are different of course, but the 16 valve engine has a large aftermarket in Europe and quite a range of performance piston options are available including forged heavy crown for heavy boost applications -- names like JE and Karl Schmidt. The standard 1.8l rod is 144 mm quite a bit longer than the 136 mm for the diesel. The bore will demand some piston customization but I suspect that the blanks normally available will allow the correct pin height in combination with either the diesel rod (136) the normal 1.8l rod (144) or the late 2.0l rod (141).
Anyway there are lots of options to play with -- rods, pistons, head gaskets. If you can work it so the only customization you need is specing the pin height for drilling a 1.8l piston blank, this doesn't have to cost a boatload. On the other hand quality pistons are never cheap.
These blocks are 81 x 86.4 mm and unlike the 1.9l diesel, the scrapyards around me a full of them. Because of the larger bore if you have the same piston protrusion (assume midrange 0.85 mm) and you use a the mid thickness Cu 1.9 gasket (1.57mm) the larger bore jumps the compression up to slightly over 25 to 1. This is assuming a nominal 1.6l head volume of 142.4cc.
Slight relieving of the head could bring this in right on the money at 23 to 1, but I suspect it would run just fine at 25:1.
Since we're just foolin around consider that (relieved or not) the larger bore might allow larger valves to be fitted. The small valve 8v gasser has 38mm intake and 33 mm exhaust,and the big valve (A2 8v high compression gasser head) is 40 mm intake and 33 mm exhaust. The 1.6 diesel is just 34 mm intake (yikes) and 31 mm exhaust, these small valves combined with a low lift/short duration cam chokes the engine --52 hp out of 1.6l is not very much. It will be interesting to see what size valve will fit given the prechamber etc. but I strongly suspect that the "small valve" 38/33 combination will work. Comparing a 38 mm intake valve versus the stock diesel 34 mm -- valve flow at low lift will scale like the head perimeter so you might see a 10% increase. As with pistons quality performance valves are available off the shelf. Like I said I'm just noodling some ideas around for now haven't done anything yet, but glad to see this discussion of options for the 1.6na.
-
Audi80
Since there is a 2 mm difference between the 1.9 na and the 1.6, you could possibly machine the head or the block 2mm. Or maybe use the 1.9 turbo pistons and a thicker copper gasket. To bad you couldn't get some custom pistons for a reasonable price. If you had the complete specs, Ross may be able to make them. Some guys at a gasser site had some custom ones made for around $500 american......
Bernie
-
well my headgasket is leaking so instead of having that repaired im going to have the shop install a 1.6TD with either a TT or passenger performacne downpipe plus a TT exhaust wiht no cat. the cost of rebuilding is almost as much as the cost of the TD motor so its a no brainer...
to response to questions about my pump. it made a difference everywhere except fuel economy, im still getting 40mpg. pulls real good all over, BIG difference over the stock pump and like i said i havent touched the max fuel screw at all...
my pump might be in classifieds soon so keep your eye out
-
im going to have the shop install a 1.6TD
to response to questions about my pump. it made a difference everywhere except fuel economy, im still getting 40mpg. pulls real good all over, BIG difference over the stock pump and like i said i havent touched the max fuel screw at all...
my pump might be in classifieds soon so keep your eye out
Just out of curiosity, do you plan on having your TD pump done up by Giles? Have you checked how much it'd cost to upgrade your existing Giles NA pump to TD vs. rebuilding an entire TD pump?
-
to response to questions about my pump. it made a difference everywhere except fuel economy, im still getting 40mpg. pulls real good all over, BIG difference over the stock pump and like i said i havent touched the max fuel screw at all...
my pump might be in classifieds soon so keep your eye out
Thanks, I'll watch for it. Was there any increase in smoke?
-
well my headgasket is leaking so instead of having that repaired im going to have the shop install a 1.6TD with either a TT or passenger performacne downpipe plus a TT exhaust wiht no cat. the cost of rebuilding is almost as much as the cost of the TD motor so its a no brainer...
to response to questions about my pump. it made a difference everywhere except fuel economy, im still getting 40mpg. pulls real good all over, BIG difference over the stock pump and like i said i havent touched the max fuel screw at all...
my pump might be in classifieds soon so keep your eye out
you can fix a headgasket in like 2 afternoons, just fix that, but it sounds like you just wanna stick a turbo diesel in it and be done haha
-
you can fix a headgasket in like 2 afternoons, just fix that, but it sounds like you just wanna stick a turbo diesel in it and be done haha
thats not what im worried about. i dont have my tools with me right now and my motor just feels like its ready to go, i mean it still runs good, but it smoke a LOT more on cold start now, i dont think my 1000 mile trip to seattle helped. yea i do wanna stick a TD in it though, jus sucks cuz ill have to sell my rabbit ASAP.
-
Just out of curiosity, do you plan on having your TD pump done up by Giles? Have you checked how much it'd cost to upgrade your existing Giles NA pump to TD vs. rebuilding an entire TD pump?
yea im trying to decide whether to have giles rebuild my pump or just start with a new one. rebuilding mine will cost around $400, a whole new pump (with core charge) is almost a grand US so im probably going to have him rebuild my pump. i doubt ill be able to sell my for ~$500 even though it has less than 10k on it...