VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: bert on September 30, 2006, 11:24:10 am
-
Took the mk1 turbo diesel for its first drive today,impressed with it,but not too much kick as i was hoping for,so i decieded to swap the aneroid pin with a 1.6 TD one, :( they are a different diameter,the 1.6 pin is a loose fit in the 1.9 pump,so what now?
I know one of you will know the solution :wink:
Bert
-
Ok,if i get the pin on the grinder,what taper do i need to grind? also there is no starwheel,just the pin,diaphram,and a large sprind inside the lda.
Please come to my rescue
Bert
-
I dont want to be called the master of disaster :wink: tell me what to do with my boost pin please :| only the one side is profiled on my pin and the profile is almost non existant ,why have bosch changed the diameter?
Typical i have a 34 aneroid pin to drop in
Bert
-
yeah the aneroid is very simple to udnerstand and stuff, definetly gains to be made with it especially if you have it matching fuel and boost very well.
-
grind your own - start small. This pic is of my previous motor, 1.9td.
(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/434902/fullsize/pict1231.jpg)
I ground too far up the pin at first ( got it turned around in my head) - then went for the correct location :D - I didn't go very far, and smoothed the metal with a knife sharpening stone so it would not wear the pin - just that much of a wedge plus turning up th main fuel screw had fueling to about 1100 EGT with 12 psi of boost - and it had very good power. 100 hp? Maybe?
-
deep mud,thats the one,im going to have it ground at a machine shop tomorrow,i presume im only needing to grind the bottom bit of the pin where the 'wear mark' is and then polish it back up,i will take it easy then try it again and see what happens,the car is in the next unit to the machine shop so i can grind and play :wink:
Bert
-
Deepmud,thats what the machine shop did to my pin yesterday,the origional profile is crap,why did vw use such a useless pin? is it for economy/emissions rather than power? the 1.6 pin would have been nice but it didnt fit.
Bert
-
IM mostly, I think - it's why the 1.9td has only 5hp more than the 1.6td.
Show us a pic of your new pin and the 1.6td pin!
I need to get to grinding on mine so I will be thinking of what profile to create.
-
This is good and useful stuff. Just one or two dimensions of a pin that works well for a 1.9TD would be incredibly useful (for many it seems, a hot topic :P ). Where to start and end the taper up the pin and the minimum diameter and offset would be brill.
-
I think the neatest part to customizing the taper, would be having different stages in performance. with a mbc you could control how much ooompff the car has.
ex: let the car run with normal 10 psi right, and the aneroid won't have full travel... so set the pin that way. when you increase your boost, the aneroid will travel farther downwards, and if you have a larger taper, you will get greater quantity of fuel added. stage 1, 2, and possibly 3 or 4?? 8)
-
We're definitely getting the message on this one... a few basic dimensions to start with would be useful, so we don't go completely off the rails :idea:
This very much reminds me of whittling down emulsion tubes for nice top-end progression on Weber style fixed carburrettors - a Black Art if ever there was one.
-
The profile i have had cut is difficult to explain,but here goes,the origional profile is a parallell start with a taper about 2mm long then the taper stops and the pin runs parallell again,the profile i have now is a-taper that starts in the same place as the origional but carries on at the same angle and does not finish as before,there is a sharp step where the grinding finishes,but the feeler pin does not travel that far on the pin so it dont matter,i have polished the surface back up with fine emery cloth and oil so it will not wear the feeler pin.The angle does not seem as steep as the 1.6 cone but im hoping when i drive it it will be an improvement from standard.I am running a garrett T3 turbo off a 1.6 as advised by the boys in the know off here :wink:
The pump timing is set at 0.85mm as stated in a diesel manuel,what would you lads set it at? 1.0mm has been suggested??
Thanks for all the good advice i have recieved,made me go ahead with the conversion
Bert (will let you know how it performs asap)
-
So this time I'll take a good set of before pics, with ruler in view, and measure from the top to the marks on the rod where the pin slides on it. The cool thing about the stock 1.6td pin IS the variation of how much fuel it adds at a given boost - the offest cone lets you go up and down. I have been thinking I can get the same effect with carefull hand grinding - we'll see - if I destroy it, it can be replaced pretty easy, it's not my DD.
-
Thanks Bert, I'm an engineer and still don't get it :lol:
We tend to talk in pictures, that is, scale drawings with dimensions set in stone on them, but hey, I'll get a 1.6 pin, mic it all up, draw it, and then maybe soften it up a bit for the 1.9 (thats the impression I get), not quite so radical a profile - is that the idea?
Cheers!
-
i was an engineer now a mot tester/ mechanic :wink:
I dont have pics of the pin,i do know the 1.9 pin is a bigger diameter to the 1.6 :cry:
Herts uk? i need to come see your project ( what you got?),next summer when i get the mk1 gtd out the garage :?
No tax at the moment but it runs ok without it :wink:
Bert. halesowen
-
Hehe, Bert, You're about halfway between me and Mr Brickyard on here, who definitely knows his onions, 'cos his workshop is always full of T25s (vanagons across the Atlantic)...
What's famous about Halesowen, there must be something? Aircraft factory? Car factory? Dudley isn't it - aha - I know, the wartime Spitfire and Lancaster factory at Castle Bromwich, that can't have been far away... solid engineering up there, eh? Was! All but gone though I bet and everything redeveloped to naff blandness, canals, pretty lego houses and shopping malls I bet :roll:
Mine's a 4WD T25 Transporter Syncro twincab (Doka) - and we help run the Syncronauts - a club devoted to these handsome and capable off-roaders from VW (nee Steyr-Daimler-Puch at Graz, Austria). With an empty weight of about 1.8 tonnes and the drag of a London bus going sideways, they do need plenty of cruising oomph, but mainly endurance at quite high power settings (read 80-90% of max on the motorway). Hence the original 1.6's though adequate, expire sooner rather than later (definitely soon after 100,000, and don't hear of them getting far beyond 150,000 very often).
Oil cooling and a good eye on water temps too is imperative, with the engine hidden back there under the loadbed. But off-road, these engines are great at pulling you up some quite incredible inclines, with just a light foot on the gas - well usually anyway. A nice smooth torque delivery is helpful when the sheer wheel drag and climbing load get prohibiive...
PS. You're surrounded by T25 owners with similar motors in the back of their buses, campers and pickups..Flat 4 petrols are increasingly being 2.2 Subura'd and more and more are replacing their 1.6 JX TDs with 1.9 AAZs.
Rgds
-
im very close to the longbridge rover plant,i watched the 'overhead tunnel' being took out over the bristol road, a sad day for british industry,i used to be an injection moulder and supply rover,bits of trim etc,the place i used to work for folded.....as did many places round here,not many engineers left now.
My project is a mk1 golf diesel now AAZ powered with uprated turbo etc,we should all meet up next time the sun comes out :roll: (summer) and show and compare motors,
One thing i should tell you van owners,dont buy cheap water pumps,only buy genuine or hepu or bocar,the cheap impellors dont create the same pressure or flow rate as do genuine pumps,i fitted a cheap pump to a AAZ in a turbo diesel transporter and couldnt get the heater hot until i revved to 3000rpm,as the heater matrix is about 3 feet higher than the water pump,probably the same as pumping to the front of your t25'S
Bert
-
I believe I have heard someone else say that about water pumps, and some other parts too... Simon?
How have you uprated the turbo? A bleed on the wastegate line?
1.6 T25s have the KKK turbos don't they, but presume you're using a Garret T3?
Do you know ehere to get the gland-seal and bearing kits cheap (or realistic prices) - have you ever fitted one. I'm told that re-balancing the rotor shaft complete is necessary
-
ok - took some pics, did a little grinding. There's a ruler in the pics :D
I didn't grind all I could - I copied the "offset cone" effect of the 1.6td.
Travel of the pin "as was" is about 8mm.
I made about a 12-13mm ramp, to allow for more boost, but have room for more if I need it. Because it's a cone, I can play with different amounts of fueling.
Grinding was done with a cheap ol' bench grinder, and cleaned up with a small sharpening stone.
More later it's late :D
Click HERE (http://www.kyrias.com/deepmud/ldagrindalbum/)
-
Thanks, that's an excellent indication of what we're aiming at to start with.
-
deepmud,that last picture is exactly what i have on my pin now
SWEET LORD the car is fast as hell,my god i didnt expect that much kick when it wound up,and no visible smoke at all,it flies,i cant describe how quick it really is,i drove my 1.6 golf gti mk1 and it is slow compared and the gti is a nippy motor,even before the turbo winds up it is nippy,being a 1.9D.
Tell you what,im putting it into storage for the winter tomorrow,and im gutted after driving it today,i just want to play :twisted:
Im well happy i did the TD conversion on my mk1 golf (rabbit)
Bert 8)
-
harryman,im using a garrett T3,exellent turbo,these guys here recommended i go with one of them,THEY WERE SPOT ON :wink:
The only mod i have done from standard is the aneroid pin,the exhaust 2.5" stainless steel with 1 box on the rear,and the T3 turbo,the boost pressure is going to be measured tomorrow,i have a vw turbo pressure guage i use.
bert
oh the turbo repair kits are on ebay genuine kits too
-
AH, Mines a knackered T2 and will be a KKK soon.
Do you know the A/R and trim of the turbine section, ther are so many T3s about and am sure it needs to match up well with the 1.9 Diesel. Orw as it staight off another vehicle with no mods?
-
The T3 i used is straight off a 1.6 td golf,not the intercooled golf just a standard mk2
the inlet and exit hoses are well bigger than the old turbo hoses,and the old kkk is tiny compared to the T3
Bert
-
Right then, so assuming those pipes can be married up nicely, that T3 has about the right impellers and casings for the 1.9, if you find it goes so well form low down.
I'm bleeding off the wastegate of a T2, to give about 12~13psi, which starts coming in about 2000 rpm and is at full boost just before 3000 rpm.
Have the manifold flanges to be ported to the new larger T3 shape or did you bolt it straight on? Must get my hands on one to take a look, but thought the stud opitch was different, so presume you grabbed the Golf manifold(s) as well.
-
The inlet manifold i used was the 1.9 AAZ,the 1.6 has a bov so i didnt use it,i had to put the inlet flange (where the boost pipe off turbo is jubilee clipped to) onto the inlet manifold so i could use the origional rubber hose (boost hose).
The 1.6 turbo and manifold bolted straight on,with one exeption which was a lump of alloy on the inlet manifold which i hacksawed off :twisted:
this hit the bigger compressor housing.
The oil drain pipe had to be cut and welded to the kkk drain off flexi pipe which was not a problem really,i used the cast iron downpipe which has been modified to accept a bolt on stainless pipe and flexi (golf mk1)
The oil feed pipe had to be bent a bit to fit the T3 but was ok.
All in all easy,same gaskets etc,i used the alloy water flanges on the head off a mk1 as the plastic ones crack,i also had to use the alloy thermostat housing (bottom hose) off the mk1 as the plastic one is thicker and hits a lump of cast iron on the block.
I was going intercooled but i dont see the point as it flies as is :wink:
Bert
-
Well, a lot of good info there, thanks. The truck weighs about 1.8 tonnes empty and gets a move on quite quickly with the T2 (which is now a bit knackered), its really cruising power and durability that I'm after, so keeping charge and oil temps down at higher boost levels , is important. Seemed to need 9-10 psi to cruise at or around 70mph on the motorway - considering intercooling, even water injection.
-
I was just going to say avoid any big turbo's, as noted, from what I have read then you are going to be in lag city with anything bigger than a K14 or T2.
You don't need massive boost in yours I don't think, for what you use your truck for your better off with it spooling up quicker and getting the power down at the bottom end, off road use doesn't really need sustained high engine speeds.
With the long gearing on my van (AAR box from a 2.1 with LSD) and the weight of a Westy interior and roof I sometimes struggle with the K14 where I live, hoping the extra lower down grunt of the AAZ will turn it into a more versatile machine, better on the hills and the longer gearing for blatting up and down the motorways.
-
harry you can have the old 1.9 aaz turbo i took off if you want it,its a kkk unit,it worked well,no problems,here if you want to play :wink:
its a k03 i think??
Bert
-
Nice offer Bert, I'd certianly pay the carriage to take a look and it might well end up on the bus!
Thanks
-
Harryman,
Great to see another t25 uk'r on here, mine's not a plush as a syncro, a caravelle in fact, your bang on when you say they never get much past 100k, must be the extra weight they pull, mine is showing 150k on the clock and on 3rd engine. when my 2nd wasser box went bang i did a diesel conversion and havn't looked back since, its a healthy 1.7 N/A slow as anything but much cheap to run. Out of interest where are you in herts, I'm in welwyn, it would be good to meet up to talk t25's. i have some spare turbo's if you are in need.. i'm gathering spaces for the winter engine swap. i gotta go turbo asap..
Berk, wicked chain you started, glad you got the pin sorted too..
-
Who are you calling a berk :lol:
Not Bert I hope :?:
I'm within shouting distance, or roof shaking distance if we're talking Buncefield booms :( A true Berko bum, know Welwyn quite well, as worked at Hatfield for years, guess you know where, think its all houses and University campus now. Would be good to meet up, might give you a call, will PM you phone no. but at the moment, neither of 2 trucks on road, soon to be fixed.
The quest = to go up hills without dropping to 3rd gear!
:P
So, are you not a club 80-90 er? That sounds like an 80-90 or Brickyard signoff!
-
Bert, Big Big sorry for the typo error, :oops: I'm on the night shift for the next 5 nights and it's playing tricks with my head already. :?
Harrymann,
Ah berko just up the road then,
Man we felt the boom from the office here, what a bang it was :shock: , I work in the Hatfield business prk and moving house to Hatfield next week. lets hook up, Ace is on next tuesday evening if you fancy an evening of vw pron. let me know if you fancy it..
brickyard mostly, but as i'm well into getting my head round the diesel engine, i'm just loving the people, posts and tech help this site has to offer, so i'm glued here as much as possible.
the signoff; its the honest truth really, the caravelle is a bit heavy being a 7 seater and all, 1.6td is the way to go. or maybe td the 1.7n/a not totally sure yet.
ps you should have my number now..
Stupot
-
Apology accepted,i used to be a berk in my younger years,im ok now :wink:
Bert
-
evening all,
interesting stuff here, Harryman, i'm really gutted we didn't manage to hook up for the Ace Cafe on Tuesday eve, there's always next month tho!
you mentioned you have a shagged T2 so you are going kkk 14? or 24 instead, I'm at the same cross roads, T2 or kkk14? anyone know what the pro's and con's are? i know they are physically different but not sure on exact spec's and how they rate against each another.
Bert, thanks mate :D .
ta for now.
ps i'm moving house in 2 days(20th), i got a call today from my isp saying there was screw up with my request to change my address and connection date at the new address. they told me 30 days from today. :x how bad is that!
c u not very soon!
-
i got a call today from my isp
Not ntlhell by any chance?
Maybe play swapsis on turbos, one way or t'other?
Or both learn to rebuild them with those eBay kits, £45~£65 and pray the rotor stays in reasonable balance.. got a workshop/shed at the new place?
Go on, tell me you're a top toolmaker at the only high-tech engineering company left in the UK :D
Everyone had a lathe or milling machine in their garden shed around Hatfield and Welwyn 50 years ago.. Ah! de Havilland - the good die young, the rest are rascals :wink: