VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: klr650@ on September 19, 2006, 06:10:32 am
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I thought I heard somewhere that you can add the LDA from a turbo pump to and NA pump. Does anyonw konw if that's true? What would be benefit? Would you basically have a turbo pump at that point?
I've got a turbo engine with an NA pump. But I've got some nonfunctioning turbo pumps laying around. If adding the LDA is worth it, I'd make a go at swapping tops.
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The LDA will make a difference since it will allow you to add more fuel when under boost.
how much do you want for one of the non-functioning pumps because i really need an LDA top
Let me know its one of the only things that I need to complete the TDI project
later
Justin
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Sorry guys I can't sell the pumps or any parts until I'm up and running for a bit. At the rate I'm going I'll need all 3 to get one good one.
So basically unbolt the top and swap in the LDA top. Guess I'll do the governor mod while I've got it opened. :twisted:
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I tried the gov mod on one of the "test" pumps. The toughest part was getting the throttle springs back together. I shot those springs around my garage atleast 3 times! :oops:
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I honestly can't comprehend the complexity of the vw throttle spring setup. There really only needs to be one spring. All it does is return the lever. :roll:
Andrew
You should see the 1.9TD, makes the 1.6 spring setup look simple, the horror... I have no clue why they are like that, bosch engineers cousin maybe owns a spring shop?
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Specifically the passat 1.9td's, I only ever did one governor mod on a passat 1.9td pump, and it was the last one I care to do unless someone wants to pay $200 for a governor mod. The passats have another 1 or 2 springs more than the golf/jetta 1.9td's.
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I don't think you can put an LDA on top of an NA pump... without removing one of the posts inside.
I could be wrong but I think there is a stop on the NA pump body that the governor comes back and hits.
On the TD pump this stop isn't there and the finger coming down from the LDA stops it instead.
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Ok, so what's the verdict here. Is this a bolt off bolt on mod? Anyone ever done this? Or should I be the tester?
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From what I have read in the past it should be a direct bolt on, but from what fatmobile says maybe it is a little more in depth with the govenor assembly
I am not sure since the Turbo pumps are so rare around here that I have never seen one to tell you the difference, if someone would sell me one I would let you know
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Andrew PMd me saying the extra post doesn't get in the way of the little finger.
Glad to hear that. I haven't actually swapped tops but did take a couple apart and take a look in there. I saw the extra post and didn't go any farther.
Glad to hear it isn't something that needs removed.
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When I do mine, perhaps this weekend, I'll take photos. But I'll need some help posting them. Assuming people are interested.
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I can help with the posting of pics
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Ok, so I did the swap. Bolt off and then bolt on. Went pretty easy except those nasty springs, which I still have gotten back into place. I did the gov mod while I had it open. Still not running yet, but I know I'll be glad that I did the gov mod.
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you'll have to test it then, like turn the fueling on the lda up really high and see if it smokes a bunch to make sure it's installed right, cause giles made it sound like it was more than just bolting on the new top
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yeah if so, I might try that then. I have a spare turbo pump in unknown condition and a good NA pump so slap em together and BAM! ha ha don't follow close!
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hi guys
yes u do have to cut one of the posts out inside the pump housing.
it's hardened steel so the pump needs to be taken apart completely.
if u don't romove the post the cover won't do very much.
Giles
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shucks
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Wait a minute. I just removed the NA top and put the LDA top without any problems. I didn't see a post in the way. Everything fit as far as I know. Before I put the LDA top on, I compared the 2 pumps internals and couldn't see any difference.
So what's everyone talking about it not fitting? Or did I miss something here.....
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This is an NA pump.... click to make larger.
(http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/8670/12mmtool8eh.th.jpg) (http://img482.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12mmtool8eh.jpg)
There is a post jutting into the pump, near the governor shaft, the green arrow is pointing in the general direction.
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Sorry for all you dialup users, but these are nice pics of the boost enrichment device, and how it works :o
(http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7900/loadingpressureenrichment2ok0.jpg)
(http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7185/loadingpressureenrichment3zm3.jpg)
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So are you guys saying the LDA top will mount on the NA pump, but won't function correctly?
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I assume that it is possible. Look at those intricate parts inside the pump... gives you a good idea of what the LDA is doing (it basically acts like a dynamic fuel screw, being able to increase/decrease fuel quantity)
In theory, you could set the fuel screw to maximum, but arrange the lda fuel lever to compensate, and stiffen the lda up. (may require some shims on the inside of the pump)
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3153/loadingpressureenrichment3aie8.jpg)
Imagine that. Bleed off pressure from your LDA for light town driving + fuel economy, or let all the pressure go to the LDA and have uber power!
Forgot to add. In my pic I said to shim the lda lever... how about just bend it???
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Giles just did one for me today, 1.9 AAZ umwelt TD without the LDA, retrofitted with a 1.6 pump top.
Can't wait. It's currently a slug with sub-par fuel economy.
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GILES? I don't know you but I could really do with your help on this matter, Can I actually retro fit the lda from a 1.6 td pump to a newer 1.6 td pump that does not have it fitted?
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Well, I have NA pump apart for putting a LDA on and I'm sure the long post needs to be wacked or the LDA would be nearly useless. It appears that for an NA the post is the full throttle stop and when you put an LDA on the little arm stickin' down becomes the stop, thus, you now have a movable stop. :)
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg218/rabbitdude82/P2180100.jpg)
Note the two posts sticking in, the long one needs to go.
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Hammer time! 8)
I may do this some day. :D Too bad that post isn't threaded in or something.
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Can someone post a pic of the two tops side by side?
Hell, why not post the bottom side by side too...
This thread is a really Nice read...Thanks to everyone!
so the final verdict is "Yes we need to remove that stopper"? Or no?
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(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg206/2253benjamin/volkswagendiesel006-3.jpg)
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg206/2253benjamin/volkswagendiesel005-2.jpg)
Does anyone have an idea how to remove this without taking the pump apart?
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sweet pics! I will be pulling the guts out of my IP soon anyways (broken plunger :oops: ) so I'll wack it off w/ a grinder.
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What i did is take a dye grinder and grind the crimp on the outside of the pump. Then take a propane torch and heat up the aluminium around the pin. From the inside take a punch and hit the pin out towards the outside about half way. Then whan the aluminum cools it will seal back tite around the pin. Mine has been like that for about a year with no leaks.
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I dont know that metals got balls of steel! :D Its super hard.I think pressing it out from the inside would be easier(less messy to)If you can get past the fly weights in the way.Maybe tapping it out from the inside out.
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bump :) Ok quik question about the LDA lever that comes down to act on the gov. plate.I was playing around with the action abit,and it seems very rigid.Is this correct?Its tight enough to make an indent in my fingertip before it moves.
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Yes, I wondered that to. I tried wrapping my brain around it 'cause I wanna know how it works but it's awful confusing. If you look down behind the....wait now, I just reread yer post. You mean the little movable throttle stop? I never pushed on that 'cause I thought it would break. Look on the LDA below were the turbo boost line hooks up and you'll see a little thing with a hole in it, it's the vent for the LDA. You can suck on it and it'll pull the diaphram down simulating boost, then you can feel the little lever move a tiny bit.
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HA ha ,ive successfully pushed the post out of the way of the gov. plate! :D Its was easy enough with a propane torch and a punch after i took a die ginder to the little crimp on the outside ive got pics ill post soon.
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Cool, Glad to see it worked for you too.
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(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg206/2253benjamin/volkswagendiesel004-5.jpg)
heres the post tapped back
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neat.....doesn't look to hard. I'll be doing that as soon as I get some time.