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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: klr650@ on September 10, 2006, 07:47:17 pm
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I am having a ton of trouble getting this thing finisded. I'm so close..... anyway. Once again I'm having problems getting the 1.6TD started. I had her running last weekend but my IP had a leak. So I pulled it, replaced the seal and reinstalled everything.
I assuming during the reinstall of pump is where I got into trouble since it worked prior. Here's what I did:
1. Bolted the IP on
2. timed it and installed the timing belt
3. hooked up the steel injector lines
4. hooked up the braided fuel lines to the pump, included boost line from the intake manifold
5. Primed the pump
6. Checked the fuel stop solenoid by hooking it directly to the + battery, it clicked, so I plugged real power line to it.
I turn it over and it just cranks. The pump isn't pumping fuel to the injectors. I tried to start it with 2 different working pumps and had the same problems. I think the problem is with something electrical with the fuel stop solenoid. Its not coughing, and injections are not getting fuel.
Before when I had this problem it was blown fuse, ignition coil fuse. So the fuel stop wasn't getting juice. I checked it and its a good fuse.
I need a break and some help. Its got to be something stupid and simple but I've been at it so long my brain is broke. So any suggestions on what to check?
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Is there fuel in the pump? If its empty it will take for ever to fill itself if it ever does.
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No, I removed the pump.
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Why not run main power to the solenoid, check your GP (glow plug ) fuse on the fire wall of the car. Check to make sure you are full of Fuel.
IE fill with diesel, you can also check to see if you filter is blocked by drawing fuel through the Fuel line that goes to the pump. When fuel comes out the out line on the Filter then you are good from there.
I would also check compression to see if the motor is ok. The solenoid on the pump if soaked with water can fail open or closed...... So be carefull in that case.
Check timing by hand on the motor..... (This may be over kill, but it can route out other future problems)....
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I may know the problem now. The solenoid may be soaked with diesel. When I was putting the return line on diesel leaked all over the place, especially on the solenoid
I bottle feed the pump until I get it started, so I shouldn't have a problem with the fuel filter.
I ran + battery to the solenoid, it clicks. GP are good, I just replaced them. Fuse is good. Plenty of fuel in the tank and pump.
Timing could be slightly off, but I was extremely careful. Plus the steel lines are not getting fuel so I'm assuming if timing were off they'd still be squirting fuel when I crack and crank 'em.
I'm thinking the solenoid is soaked and not working correctly. I'm still open to suggestions. Thanks
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For troubleshooting, you can remove the plunger from the solenoid then re-install it. Just make sure you have a plan for stopping the engine.
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For troubleshooting, you can remove the plunger from the solenoid then re-install it. Just make sure you have a plan for stopping the engine.
1st gear, dump clutch with food on brake. OR... turn fuel screw in until engine dies? lol
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That would do it, unless his 4x4 project is sitting on blocks wihout the clutch connected! Big rag held over the intake was my idea.
reminds me.......many years ago back in the dark ages of my career as a starving student/labourer, there was this old ford cabover diesel automatic dumptruck used as a yard truck at the sawmill where I worked. (See where this is headed yet?) Thing had suffered a dash fire at some point and was never rewired. All there was was a push button for starter, and a bent welding rod going through the floor that you pulled to kill the air supply for shut down. One of the other kids came to get me saying he couldn't shut the truck off. The welding rod had fallen through the floor! When I put a bag over the roof top air intake, it became apparent that it wasn't connected anymore. And the cab tilt mechanism was replaced with a big block of steel bolting frame and cab together at back. The boss said he would take care of it....his solution was to leave it idling outside the mechanic shop for 2 days until Monday!!
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No, its not on blocks. I actually had it running a few weeks ago and drove it around the block a few times. Diesels sound so cool!!!
Anyway... I did something really bad. I lost the timing on the engine. Big time rookie mistake. I've been reading up on how to do it without the original VW Tranny. It should be interesting. I think I should be able to pull the injector and glow plug on #1 and run a feeling in to see if its at TDC. Then remove the valve cover and ensure everything is also TDC.
Any thoughts? I owe beers! And probably some pics of this thing when its done.
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Getting something through the precombustion chamber insert and onto the top of the piston might not be easy.
Someone has suggested on here in the past that you could compress a valve spring on number one and use that valve stem to find TDC by rotating motor so the valve goes up and down. That may mean pulling the cam. Dropping the oil pan to get at a crank throw may be easier.
If you are using a VW flywheel and can access to the top of the flywheel, I have a spare vw tranny in garage and could measure the relative position of the timing mark and top 2 bellhousing bolts if that helps.
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Let's try from a different angle.
I still have my timing marks on the intermediate shaft and belt cover. So I'm thinking I have a 50/50 shot on the intermediate shaft being lined up correctly. Sound right?
If I take the valve cover off I can get the camshaft aligned correctly to TDC.
The only other issue would be the IP, but I have the tools and the marks to time it.
If I try to start it with the timing 180 degrees off, what's the worse that can happen?
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You can't go by the intermediate shaft, it has no mark, unless you put on there. Or, I wouldn't go by it, anyways. And if your cam/crank timing is 180 off, you'll hit valves, and that wont be good. If the injection pump is off 180, it just wont start. Cam and crank are the most crucial to have lined up at TDC. Your best bet is removing the injectors and feeling around for tdc. It will only be a one time deal, because then, you can mark it on your bellhousing and flywheel with nail polish or something that wont come off and you'll never have this problem again.
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I did put a mark on the intermediate shaft and belt cover. I'll try aligning my marks, then feel around to make sure I'm at TDC before I try anything. I really don't want to hit valves. That would probablys send me all the way back to the begining. My girlfriend would kill me!!
I'll probably make a go at this weekend, but I'm sure I'll have more question before then. I plan on examining things first.
Thanks, Dave
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Unless you have had the cam off or have already crunched valves there is no way that the crank and cam can be 180 degrees out. So if you have the belt off and get it back on without moving crank or cam, you should be within a tooth. (I have heard they will even run (poorly) within 1 or 2 teeth.) I would then turn it over carefully, by hand, with injectors out if necessary until you have located TDC. Then loosen cam pulley, make sure cam slot is aligned with edge of head, align mark on IP, tighten it all down then set the pump timing with gauge.
If you really arent sure where the cam and crank are in relation to each other, I would pull the cam off head so you can rotate engine without risk.
I think wlydman's description of timing here: http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3587 is the best I have read
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Ok guys an update. I think I have everything aligned. As a test, can I turn everything by hand? If I don't hear anything bad or I can't make a full rotation something would need to be adjusted? Or is this too risky of a test?
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Turning it manually is how you tell if its all aligned. They say turn it two full rotations to make sure you dont feel pistons hitting valves or to make sure the belt doesn't loosen up.
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Hit the belt with a mallet when it's all said and done too, just in case it's weak. You may want to crack open the injectors or glow plugs so the compression doesn't have you thinking you are hitting a vavle.
FTR my bunny ran for 1000s of kms with the cam retarded (pretty sure it wasn't advanced) about a tooth. Still got 45MPG too.
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Its definitely not easy to move it by hand. However, I can hear the air release as it moves, then it easy to rotate then harder. So I'm assuming the difficultly in rotating is due to the pressure building or compression occuring then the release which makes it easier.
I'm going to give it a try tomorrow morning!! I hope this works......
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If you've already spun it arond twice by hand I don't think you can do any more damage (if there was any) by cranking it
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Well, I couldn't get to run with the turbo pump I think its broke. I think I need to send it to Giles.
Anywho, I replaced the leaky seal on the NA pump. I knew that pump worked for sure. Sure enough I get the timing all adjust. Turns right over and starts up!!!!
I guess I'm going with the NA pump until I can work something out with the 2 broken turbo pumps.
Thanks for everyone's help!!