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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: bert on August 16, 2006, 01:14:32 pm
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GT 1544 Anybody had any experience of this turbo? I have a 1.9 TD AAZ engine. Will this turbo be any good?
Cheers,
Bert
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i dont know how much hp you wanna make.
anyway, its to small.
it doenst have a good perfomance to tune youre 1.9 to.
Greetz, Benjamin
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benjamin,thanks for the reply,i have a garrett t3 off a 1.6 TD,i was told it is better for the 1.9 TD?
Cheers Bert
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Bigger is not necessarily better.
The GT15 (I assume coming out of a 90 HP TDI) will comfortably support 18-20 PSI of boost with good efficiency. This is more than most AAZs can reliably take advantage of without internal modifications. I had a Passat TDI with 300k kms modified to the tune of 140 HP, using this original turbo and running at 21 PSI boost sustained for almost 5 years.
Big turbos are a joke unless your engine is insanely tuned. As a stock- or near-stock replacement, the GT15 is a huge improvement over the T3 in terms of spool response and efficiency.
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i looked at the Garrett site www.turbobygarrett.com
there exist 3 GT1544 turbo's,
GT1544 - 452195-1
Horsepower 75 - 175
Displacement 0.9L - 1.5L
GT1544 - 454082-2
Horsepower 100 - 150
Displacement 1.0L - 1.6L
GT1544 - 454083-2
Horsepower 100 - 150
Displacement 1.0L - 1.6L
so, a 1.9 should be to big.
the gt15 will spool quick for 2reasons, its the newest product from garrett, the GT series (T series are older), the turbo is much smaller, but keep in mind the flow will higher with the T3.
@TDIMeister: i dont know how big the compressorwheel is, if this is bigger, it will give more....
OFFTOPIC: when we look at the pic you can see the airflow is the highest on 2,25bar. How much pressure can Garrett GT series handle (for long lifetime?)
(http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/images/catalog/Turbochargers/gt15_images/GT1544_454083_2_turbo_e.gif)
Greetz, Benjamin
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There are literally hundreds of Garrett part numbers within each turbocharger family like the GT1544. The ones that are original equipment for VW alone are listed here (http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/applications/passenger_cars_model.php?fabricante=VOLKSWAGEN&logo=volkswagen).
With all due respect, please don't use marketing info to form a basis about whether a turbo is too small or not. A correct compressor map (you showed a turbine map) is the best piece of data you can have. Those numbers you quoted are for GASOLINE engines which rev higher (as much as 50%) and therefore have higher maximum airflow ratings for a given engine displacement, and at best are very much "ballpark" suggestions.
I HAVE done the calculations and I can tell you that a GT15 has no problems efficiently supporting a 1.9L Diesel engine to over 140 HP.
The Garrett T-series family is based on 3 decades old technology, and the newer technology can match and far exceed the mass flow, efficiency, response and broad operating range of the older counterparts using much smaller frame sizes.
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Here are more exhaustive listings of OEM GT15 applications:
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/catalogs/model.php?base=garrett&pagina=GT15
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/catalogs/model.php?base=garrett&pagina=GT15P
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/catalogs/model.php?base=garrett&pagina=GT15Z
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I am gonna have to disagree with you big time there Dave, the gt15 is much too small for a 1.9. Yes I know you can get them to push 140WHP, but that really is out on the edge for that turbo, the turbine is simply much to small for this engine, the turbo's drive ratio on a 1.9 is approx. 2.8:1, which is terrible. The turbo from the 1.6 is not big by any means, it is very properly sized for the 1.6 engine and a tad small for the 1.9. You will see 40 degrees drop in oil temperature and nearly 200 degrees (depending on state of tune) drop in exhaust gas temperature, plus the obvious signifigant drop in exhaust back pressure. Also you now have a MUCH better compressor map.
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Thanks guys for all the replys,i have removed the kkk k03 turbo from the 1.9TD (non tdi) and i am going to put the garrett t3 in its place,the turbo is physically bigger,the inlet and outlet ports are bigger,the pressure hose to the inlet manifold is a bigger diameter,the turbine is alot bigger than the other,when i drove the mk3 golf (engine donor car)it had a cataliser on it,power steering,it was nippy but there was no real kick as the turbo came in,my mk2 jetta with SB engine has the kick and can be felt to cut in.
Will the 1.9 be ok with the 1.6TD turbo the garrett T3?
:roll:
THANKS Lee
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Definately, I have done a bunch of the t3 swaps onto 1.9's, for a daily driver they are great, much better suited to the engine than any of the stock 1.9 turbos, the ko3 being the worst of the bunch, so you are really making a step forward. :D
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Dave,really appreciate the help,i can sleep better now :wink:
Cheers Bert
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Hey now worries man :D Now you can crank up the fuel and boost 8)
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I replaced the k03 in my 1.9 with a Garrett T3. I love it... there's a bit more lag around town, but it's still a huge improvement.
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:wink:
when the engine is in my mk1 i will let you know how i get on!
Thanks all
Lee
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Ah,snag, the oil drain off to the block is different from the stock k03 turbo to the garrett t3 i have fitted,i have cut the two pipes and welded the garrett flange to the aaz drain pipe,its all ok now :D
Right then,the inlet manifold on the 1.9TD is on the engine with the t3 turbo,i have looked at the 1.6TD inlet manifold and have noticed a blow off valve fitted to it,question-why does the 1.9 not have one? and do i need one? the turbo came off the 1.6TD
Thanks lads
Bert
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the blow off valve opens at around 10-12 psi anyways, so if you're looking to get more boost than that, you don't need it. (was just added as a safety device incase your wastegate was broken)
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there's a bit more lag around town, but it's still a huge improvement.
So if that's the case, how is it better? Markedly and measuredly more horsepower, lower fuel consumption?
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Bert, You'll have to cut/Grind a peice from the aaz intake manifold as it interfers with the T3's compressor housing.
My main reason for swaping the ko3 to T3 on my dads aaz was due to the ko3 being worn out (oil out the exhaust).T3/k24's are easy to find and are a cheap way out of replacing the ko3$$.Try finding a good used ko3 :lol:.
My dad tows with has passat wagon so by replacing and upgrading at the same time for less money we were able to keep EGT's at 1150 deg where before with the ko3 on the same 15 psi would peg the pyro with fuel upped and intercooled.Just my 2 cents :)
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Andy,yes,i found that little piece of alloy to be a problem,so out came the hacksaw and file :wink:
Now sitting snug on the 1.9
Its a vw exchange engine with a brand new fuel pump on it,so it should be ok,hopefully it will fit nice into my mk1 golf,the complete mk3 golf with the new aaz cost me £300 quid,so im happy as larry :lol:
Bert
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So if that's the case, how is it better? Markedly and measuredly more horsepower, lower fuel consumption?
Noticeable difference in power on the highway. There are a couple long, steep hills that used to have me going into 4th to maintain 100km/hr near the top. Now I can stay in 5th and easily maintain 110 km/hr up the same hills. Also much easier to pass on the highway, even uphill.
Most of my driving is on the highway, so a little extra lag is not an issue for me.
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Ok, so what is a good choice in turbo from garret gt? assuming you want about 200hp. I'm now running t25, from a nissan s13. It 's a bit slow spooling, need to get above 3500rpm to get things moving... looking to get a better turbo but a bit confused about how to convert gasser hp to diesel hp
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For 200WHP go with a gt22.
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I have a question for you guys. I have vw diesels (1.6) and audi etc. My neighbor has gas vws 1.8l 1986 golf. He claims that if I give him one of my stock garrett turbos and manifolds etc it will bolt right on to his gasser and perform well. I think he is out of his mind although I agree with the bolt right on part. I think from the little I know about turbos that the AR of the diesel turbo is unsuitable for a gas engine and would cause more problems than power WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?
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Without tuning it will perform poorly, with tuning it will perform OK at best, the ar of your garret turbos are too small to be really effecient for that 1.8 gasser. Been there done that.
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gt22
Horsepower 150 - 260
Displacement 1.7L - 2.2L
Sounds like same "size" as my t25 which have been known to push 260hp.
The point is that I want early spooling, full boost at 2500 rpm.
Would the gt22 do that, I know it impossible to say for sure, but give me an estimate.
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gt22
Horsepower 150 - 260
Displacement 1.7L - 2.2L
Sounds like same "size" as my t25 which have been known to push 260hp.
The point is that I want early spooling, full boost at 2500 rpm.
Would the gt22 do that, I know it impossible to say for sure, but give me an estimate.
The problem with the HP estimates and displacement estimates, is that is for a gasoline engine not diesel, so it throws things outta wack.
As far as spooling by 2500rpm... depends on how well your head flows, and how much fuel you got. Stock not a chance. 12mm pump with a ported 1.9 head, I would say you would be really close, through a VNT turbine housing on it and you would easily make it.
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"The problem with the HP estimates and displacement estimates, is that is for a gasoline engine not diesel, so it throws things outta wack."
As I suspected... How can i sorta accuratly estimate/convert gas numbers to diesel?
"As far as spooling by 2500rpm... depends on how well your head flows, and how much fuel you got. Stock not a chance. 12mm pump with a ported 1.9 head, I would say you would be really close, through a VNT turbine housing on it and you would easily make it."
12mm pump with a ported 1.9 head is the only way to go right? Anyway thats what I've got. And of course my custom intake and ex manifolds and 3" expipes. The guy that modded my IP said that I would need ~2.2 bar boost pressure to match the amount of diesel. The only thing I havent sorted out is the right size turbo, since my current t25 is to big.
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The camshaft also makes a large difference in how soon your turbo spools. AS for manifolds they are crucial, but not all manifolds are created equal, post some pictures of you manifolds I can help you determine how much they are helping or hurting your performance.
I would likely run the gt22 on your setup.
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Had a nice talk to a garret salesguy today. He said that I should go with a gt28rs, he claimed that 200 diesel ponys, is = 200*1.7 gasser ponys. The gt28rs had a max power rating at 360 (gas). I just hung up on him. He wanted me to go bigger, nutcase.
I have factory cam, not entirely convinced that other cams work... Anyway my thought when modding the intake was to get even flow to all cylinders. Doesnt look all sofisticated, but it works. Exhaust manifold, just followed standard procedure from a gasser.
pics here:
http://200sx.kicks-ass.net/gasbjorn/
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Here's a primer for reading compressor maps and turbo matching basics.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=148730
I see that the Garrett website also has a great tutorial of the same subject at http://www.turbobygarrett.com