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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: monst on October 12, 2020, 10:24:15 am
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Hello,
It has been a while.........
I am doing a clutch in a 91 jetta NA........Diesel....
Any tips.... and tricks?? to make life easier....
AND if you can recommend any clutch kits....... / brands......
She is a great running little NA...... did the head gasket..... recently... and had injection pump rebuilt(stock)....
thanks, Monst
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Fairly easy clutch to change due to the trans being so light. Brand - Sachs, Luk? You should consider a few other items while you're at it: engine rear main seal, trans input shaft seal, clutch pushrod seal AND bushing. Flywheel to crank bolts are single use, so get those at the same time. I would replace the pressure plate and have the flywheel resurfaced. Make sure the machinist has the tooling and skills required to turn the rabbit style flywheel as they are quite unique. I would also replace the throw out bearing. You'll want a replacement end cap for the end of the trans as pulling it will ruin it when you access the throw out bearing. I would also consider it a fine time to replace the trans fluid. Be aware of the atypical (incorrect) fill hole location and fill to the correct level. You might also consider repacking the CV's and obviously replacing any boots that need it. Etc...
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All good advice. He probably didn't budget for all the parts though. Still, once you invest the time to get that trans out the other items are but a few extra hours of work.
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Ahhh! Beautifully said!
I will make my list. from your post....
And pose more questions as I go.......... THanks! Lib
Can you elaborate on the turning of a "rabbit style" flywheel... So I can explain...
to the macheen-ist...... Not sure..... He is quite younger than the times.....
These.... Older cars....... they don't necessarily get to visit these situations(machinists).... So they just don't kno... due to lack of experience in the setting.......
Monst
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On the Rabbit/Golf/Jetta, the pressure plate bolts to the crankshaft and then the flywheel bolts onto the pressure plate opposite the 'normal' order of things. The center of the flywheel is then a large open hole.
[stolen pics]
(https://i.imgur.com/hrLdl9H.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gFuelbA.jpg)
The large hole in the center can make machining the flywheel a bit problematic. Also, very important, is that the surface that mates to the pressure plate (shown in the second pic) must have the dowel pins removed and be machined to the proper specification from the machined friction surface. If not done correctly, the pressure plate will not grip the disc properly.
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Right, it's not just a flat flywheel.
There are inside corners that need to be reached into.
...and like libby said; 2 surfaces to machine.
Pull that green end cap, remove the clutch bearing and slide a piece of 5/16" rod down the tube.
Lean the tip against the side and you'll feel when you hit the bushing.
Hit it with a hammer and drive the pushrod tube bushing and seal out the other end.
Kind of a trick to countersink the new pushrod tube seal 1mm below the end of the tube.
Support the engine from above with a board across the engine bay and make it so you can lower the engine.
Or it won't clear the d-side engine bay enough to pull the trany from the engine.
I like to pull the trany separate, not the whole engine.
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Thanks!..Lib... Glad I asked(I think....)
You gotta do what you gotta do....
Thanks! for the shots on the flywheel.... and procedural info...... I will start asking around.... See where I can get this done...
(what is the cost for a new flywheel?-offhand if you kno)
Fmobl....... The clutch bearing.....( AKA??:: throwout bearing)
Pushrod tube bushing and seal......(clutch bearing slides down tube??)
Thanks.... I am not able visualize this..(I can see why you would want to do it... but..[parts the wear].) ... being I have never seen it before......
(input shaft and clutch engagement and disengagement etc. -- seeing the the shifter fork is way back--near green cap......)
Be cool if I could see an exploded view.....(if you can elaborate some more... thanks! much appreciated..)
Done clutches on many vehicles...... I think I have had/ owned only a half dozen Autos in my life.... all the others have been sticks..70? 80?+ lost count.
So yeah, this being the first VW clutch....(got two of these cars at the moment - this one nearin' 300k.-- in it's mid life crisis.... [that's all it is!)
Monst
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The clutch release lever on the side of the trans rotates a shaft and on that shaft is a short 'finger' that pushes onto the clutch release bearing. On the other side of the clutch release bearing is the clutch pushrod. That pushrod runs through the middle of the transmission input shaft and rides in a bronze bushing that is pressed into the shaft on the engine side. There is also a small seal that seals around that clutch pushrod.
Look here: http://www.brokevw.com/releasearm.html
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Thanks!
That helps alot.........
I got homework to do.....Time to dig in....
Should have the tranny down today......
Will put a call into the Local import parts guys.... see if they know of a machinist for the flywheel.....
thanks again.....
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-----------------------------------Fmble--------------------------------------
Pull that green end cap, remove the clutch bearing and slide a piece of 5/16" rod down the tube.
Lean the tip against the side and you'll feel when you hit the bushing.
Hit it with a hammer and drive the pushrod tube bushing and seal out the other end.
Kind of a trick to countersink the new pushrod tube seal 1mm below the end of the tube.
Support the engine from above with a board across the engine bay and make it so you can lower the engine.
Or it won't clear the d-side engine bay enough to pull the trany from the engine.
I like to pull the trany separate, not the whole engine.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------END Fmbl---------------------------------------------
From how this is posted..by Fatmobile..
The idea appears to be, to ::::: (the order of things here as posted by Fmble)
Paraphrasing:: With Use of the 5/16" rod to remove the bushing and seal before removing (separating) tranny from engine(leaving engine in vehicle)
Mysummation::: So this will pop the seal and bushing out
and then when pressure plate is loosened from crank... this seal and bushing can be retrieved.... Bcuz... that is where is popped out to
when it was tapped out by the 5/16" rod,,,,,,,,,,, Correct????
That is my question
I have a decent engine over head support method .... should be able to do any necessary tilting.... etc. etc.....
Thanks! Monst
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I don't think that Fatmobile's post was meant to be sequential. Remove the trans before removing the end cap, clutch pushrod, seal, and bushing.
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Ok,
great!...... I will do it on the bench.
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Right support the engine so it can lower.
Then pull the trany.
Then remove the green end cover, if it looks good I reuse it with some form-a-gasket 2 stuff that doesn't harden.
After it's removed you'll see the clutch release bearing. Remove that and the pushrod.
Theeeen use the 5/16" rod down the pushrod tube to drive the bushing and seal out. Clean that tube.
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Thnks! Fo' the headZup...
Yeah, I will try and pull the cap gracefully....
Maybe I can reuse it..........
Monst
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So I am in the process of removing transaxle.
My problem is the back side of the passenger (right) drive flange...
It continues to get hung up on the fly wheel while attempting to slide back the transaxle.
Then I can not continue outward. I see no mention of removing drive flange... in the book...
I really don't want to think that the option is removing the flange..... Must be a way around this
(added note here: I did leave one motor mount attached.... this is the mount under the intake and the exhaust....
It would be easy enough to remove this mount as well,, being that the intake and exhaust
have been removed.........
The engine is attached to an overhead come-along...
(but probably not balanced enough.. front end of engine will need some support
I could easily lower both to the ground or just lower more than what I have the ability
to do now...........(BUT alternator might be in the way (easier to remove that a drive flange))
how much tilt can I put on the motor mount below the exhaust?????
What to do ?
ADDED NOTE:
Removed cap from flange...
Off to see the wizard for CirClip pliers.......
thanks, Monst
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If I remember right.
The trany has to be rotated so the flange is higher.
It can't be pulled straight out.
I don't think you need to remove the p-side motor mount.
If you lower that end much, watch the alternator and frame.
You took all the motor mounts off the trany right?
And you can lower that end of the engine enough for the trany to clear the body?
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So I need a set of circlip pliers for the drive flanges.....
Can someone provide me with the guaranteed... beauty... pair to get them off
local stores had non-specific...... junky ones............
Link to them..... and company name... and model......
I see Knipex....... makes some nice ones....... but which ones??????
thanks, MOnst
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I use duck bill pliers.
With the tip ground at a slight angle.
These look wimmpy:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/KNIPEX-6-in-Plastic-Duck-Bill-Pliers-33-01-160/205333681
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You don't need to remove either of the drive flanges in order to remove the trans. I know it seems like you have to, but you don't. It will finagle around the flywheel/pressure plate. You're just not angling it right.
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Yeah, only one mount is connected.... Pside
Alright..... I believe you.... on the drive flang.ee I could see it being possible....(curves around it)
Perhaps,,,,, you can describe..... using reference to..... orientation.... with respect to
position using......... o'clock.... terminology....
At this point...... the trans is being supported by the jack... and is not butted up to engine surface...
Does this pose clearance problems... (with finagling.... properly)
thanks, Monst
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Once you get the the engine and trans unbolted from each other, there should be enough play so that as you are pulling the trans away from the engine, rather than just pulling it straight, you can angle it enough to sneak the flange around the flywheel. FWIW, these are not heavy transmissions. I like to have a tranny jack under it to take most of the weight, but I can easily lift one and can wiggle it while pulling it away from the engine.
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Yeah, weight of trans... not an issue......
It is apart..... (mating surfaces are not touching)
I think I will get it back to where the mating surfaces are closer together.....
then try again as you describe.....
In the event..... I pop the flange off..(due to tired of wrestling with it)
It is just pulling the seal off(cover.....)
the circlip.....
and the washer beneath it.....
(there is a green collar on the trans)
Is there a spring behind the flange?
This can't be too much of a PIA to remove the flange(in the car) can it?
AND I would replace the seal as a result...
M
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I call it turning more than angling.
I think the back of the trany needs to be lifted up while the front goes down a little.
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It is just pulling the seal off(cover.....)
the circlip.....
and the washer beneath it.....
(there is a green collar on the trans)
Is there a spring behind the flange?
This can't be too much of a PIA to remove the flange(in the car) can it?
AND I would replace the seal as a result...
M
Yes, there is a spring behind the flange. http://www.brokevw.com/020flange.html
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well...........................
Transaxle/trans is out on the floor... Now.... thanks!
Got lots of work ahead........
I will post some more specific details...... as I go.....
Sadly, the clutch has much more material on it.....
the slipping is due to a highly glazed clutch due to oil contamination.....
The rear seal appears to be the culprit......
Should I look to Sachs for all replacement needs... on parts?
Seals as well???
Monst
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Glad you got it out.
I'm thinking it's the push rod tube seal that soaked your clutch.
Most of the oil from a rear main seal leak hits the outside of the pressure plate and is spun off.
The push rod tube dumps it right in the center of the clutch and spins it outward onto the disk.
Not sure what brand to buy.
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Maybe it is both......
She has
almost 300k.............
Found a place to cut the flywheel........ they want $150.00
I can get a new LUK flywheel(supposedly LUK) Saw it for like $60.00... inclds.. shipping?
(have to look closer at the vin.... code::: but 1.6L it supposedly fits)
I just hate buying stuff that sucks...... wouldn't want to have to deal with something stupid later
like a spun starter ring gear(%**^*) on the flywheel.......
Just wondering thoughts out there..............
Save a little dough or not????
Monst
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$150 sounds pretty high.
I used to get them done for $40 but that was awhile ago and that shop has closed/moved.
If it doesn't look too bad you can get away without having it resurfaced.
Maybe scratch it up with some sandpaper.
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$150 to turn the flywheel?!?! The last one I had turned was about a year ago and was ~$40 if memory serves. $150 is ridiculous.
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Yup!...... I kinda had that feeling too....... (too much...)
I'm glad I didn't just bring it there and drop it off..........
(and get soaked for it later) Sounds like they were just trying to "capitalize" on a situation........
I got a couple of other places to ask....... I'll call them just to see.... (thanks for the tip on flywheel requiring special jig to cut etc etc.)
BUT, what do you think about the new ones that I have been seeing on line.... the run about 60 bucks?(they say they r LUK)
Like I said earlier...... I hate to put something in and later it fails.......... especially something deep down there...
(like clutch peripherals and flywheel.
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New Luk flywheel would probably be fine also.
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GTK..... Thanks!....
I may go that route.......
In the event I do......... What I saw for "compatibility".....
It said,,,,,,,,(requirements being)
Single Alignment Dowel Pin 7.4x1.75mm -
Also Use 027 198 141E Clutch Kit Or 027 141 026C Plate; Engine: VIN: K; Transmission: Manualless
Single Alignment Dowel Pin 7.4x1.75mm -
Also Use 027 198 141E Clutch Kit Or 027 141 026C Plate; Engine: VIN: A; Transmission: Manualless
(have to research the kit #.... and why it makes that suggestion....)))
Just wondering If anyone knows Engine: VIN K
AND Engine VIN A
What bit position are they lookin at for VIN K and VIN A......
I don't have my VIN in front of me....... I guess... perhaps I might be able to deduce... something if I did....
VIN K and VIN A ... (dont' have anythin to do with the plant which the wheels were manufactured??))
I will have to look deeper if I am to purchase a new one..........
(ebay ones are cheaper but, I believe are without the dowel pins)
The pins on ebay are rather expensive..............
Is it ok to reuse dowel pins?
When the old one gets resurfaced.........
what is the idea there???? reuse pins........ install new pins???? thanks......
MOnst
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I don't know about the VIN values.
It is fine to reuse the dowel pins.
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Gtk thanks....
I got another place to go with it on Mon....
Seems to think he can cut it..... He has been in the bus... for long time...
So I will see what his vibe is..........
And explain.... dowel pins are to be removed.... both surfaces are to be machined.....
Monst
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Yeah, the dowels come out pretty easy with vice grips
tap right back in.
LUK is good quality.
Not sure I'd name my auto parts company LUK ,...
or FAG for that matter, ha.
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GTK...
Yeah, dropped it off somewhere... he will look at it and let me know a price tomorrow...
If it is ridiculous.... Those Luk's... where like 60 bucks......
I will just do that....
(yeah have to watch out when choosing an Acronym as the name of your company ;D)
(Luk...... to close to Puke...)
I have to start collecting all my new parts........
Do you know where to get the best prices online....
I guess that is where I will get my stuff...... or at least use that as my reference... and buy local........
STUFF
(Is there an everthing kit anymore??) you know with the bolts and maybe even the pushrod seal and bush
- rear seal
- input seal
- shifter seal
- transaxle drive flange seals
- trans axle mount (hydraulic -- mine is fried)
- valve cover gasket....
- CAN YOU THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE??? WHAT MIGHT I BE MISSING???
If you can make recommendations much appreciated.....
hypertext links are cool! to the items.... if possible
or part numbers..............
Also yeah,, I want to re-pack the inner cv joints......
To what detail (should/ can I get away with)... doing this.......
THanks, MOnst
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Make sure you center the clutch disc.
If you dont have the centering tool.
You can use vernier calipers to center it. Or something like that to center it.
Then tighten the flywheel to the pressure plate, have it just snug enough that you can move the disc around a bit.
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Runnin on LUK, ha.
Most people don't think to center the disc the push rod presses against.
I run a bic pen around the outside.
In the space between the disc and pressure plate.
Parts places for the 1.6 stuff.
Lately I've been using rock auto or autohaus.
Or the local NAPA.
Sometime oreilly.
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GTK, Thanks!
Yeah, Bought somewhere else...
Sorta got strung along..... That is when I just came out and said... Will it be more than a Franklin to cut the flywheel?
I even told him that the guy with a jig set up specifically for that flywheel wanted 150. His eyes lit up when I said I can get a new one for 60 samolians.......
Anyway, I have to collect parts still, been sidetracked with other crazy projects........
Can anyone chime in the list above regarding parts?
thanks, Monst
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(Is there an everthing kit anymore??) you know with the bolts and maybe even the pushrod seal and bush
- rear seal
- input seal
- shifter seal
- transaxle drive flange seals
- trans axle mount (hydraulic -- mine is fried)
- valve cover gasket....
- CAN YOU THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE??? WHAT MIGHT I BE MISSING???
Push rod bushing: 020311107C
Push rod seal: 020311108A
Clutch kit: Sachs K0028-03 (that's the last one I got for my '79 rabbit - I believe it would be the same for you but confirm before ordering)
Trans end cap: 020141073A
Pressure plate to Crank bolts: N90206103
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A '79 Rabbit might have the 180mm clutch instead of the 200mm behind the later 1.6D.
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Thanks!
Be ordering stuff sometime this week....
Buying a new FlyWheel I will....... Second place didn't work out.....
Vin: K and Vin:A might have to do with the 8 digit....
which is this.....
4th – 8th Character – The next five characters tell you all about vehicle itself. The characters vary between automakers, but for the most part, the letters and numbers include information about the body style, engine type, model, series and more.
I am wondering
I ran a compatibility check for the flywheel below is what the results are.....
Josephina is a 1991 Vw Diesel jetta 1.6l naturally aspirated...
RESULTS:::::::::::
Compatibility
To confirm that this part fits your vehicle, please choose a vehicle from the "My Garage" list OR enter your vehicle’s details below.
My Garage
Select a vehicle
Go to My Garage
or
Year Make Model Trim Engine
1991
Volkswagen
Jetta
GL Sedan 4-Door
1.6L 1588CC 97Cu. In. l4 DIESEL Naturally Aspirated
[show all compatible vehicles]
This part is compatible with 2 vehicle(s) matching 1991 Volkswagen Jetta GL Sedan 4-Door 1.6L 1588CC 97Cu. In. l4 DIESEL Naturally Aspirated.
Notes
Important part details Year Make Model Trim Engine
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***Single Alignment Dowel Pin 7.4x1.75mm - Also Use 027 198 141E Clutch Kit Or 027 141 026C Plate; Engine: VIN: A; Transmission: Manualless 1991
Volkswagen Jetta GL Sedan 4-Door 1.6L 1588CC 97Cu. In. l4 DIESEL Naturally Aspirated
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***Single Alignment Dowel Pin 7.4x1.75mm - Also Use 027 198 1...more 1991 Volkswagen Jetta GL Sedan 4-Door 1.6L 1588CC 97Cu. In. l4 DIESEL Naturally Aspirated
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Portions of the information contained in this table have been provided by autopartsgeek (they are the seller... listing is E bay)
Item specifics
Condition: New Brand: LUK
Application: Volkswagen Jetta Flywheel Part Number: 76524KT
Product Name: Flywheel Warranty: 12 Month Warranty
CS-SKU: 400:76524KT Years: 1997 1996 1986 1983 1984 1985 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993
What do you think.....??????
I could call partsgeek? do they pick up phones????
thanks, MOnst
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I don't know the part numbers.
Just 200mm and the smaller center splines than the 16V trany mainshaft used.
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Thanks!...
Yeah, my time(which is spread of many many catastrophes all the time)
just passes by this set of wheels up on jack stands in the garage......
Soon I will delve back in......
So I measure the clutch.... as you are saying 200mm & smaller splines......