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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: zooky on August 05, 2006, 07:38:09 am

Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: zooky on August 05, 2006, 07:38:09 am
I found a guy that can make copper head gaskets for the 1.6TD, they would be as good as or better than the 1.9 metal ones. There is a $40 set-up fee to get the pattern in the computer then they can be produced. Is there any vendors here that would be willing to stock these? Is there any interest in these? Here is his URL: http://www.headgasket.com (Gasket Works USA, LLC)
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: zooky on August 05, 2006, 08:33:13 am
yes, I sent him my old 1.6 mechanical gasket and he said he could duplicate it. I am sure he could also add those water jacket holes that have been discussed previously
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: Benjamin on August 05, 2006, 09:30:24 am
just for information, how much boost (turbopressure) can a copper headgasket hold?

Greetz, Benjamin
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: jtanguay on August 05, 2006, 09:33:02 am
copper is an excellent gasket material.  It should be able to give a really good seal, better than the 1.9 metal HG.
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: Benjamin on August 05, 2006, 09:57:00 am
i ever learned at school copper gaskets can re-used (by heating and make it cold by putting it in water), are those heagaskets also able to re-used?

Greetz, Benjamin
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: DVST8R on August 05, 2006, 10:39:14 am
I talked with them, the better part of 4years ago about the same thing, Because of the costs of setup and my time frame I decided to go the 1.9HG route. I'm glad I did, as even with head bolts a 1.9hg with eldelbrock gasket goup and a good flat head and block I have had no problems with a 490psi motor and pushing 40ish psi into it. (I had a boost controller go bad and I was hard into it) To this date the only thing that I have seen that causes these HG's to go bad are:

1. Overheating 50%
2. Inproper Install 25%
3. Non spec flat mating surface on the head or block 25%

With this being said, if you are planing on running 40psi regularly, or have a mech head, the copper gasket is probably the way to go.

Theoreticaly you can re-aneal a copper gasket, but imho, it's a crap shoot and just not worth it.
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 05, 2006, 11:12:07 am
if someone like say passenger performance made them available, i'd blow my headgasket on purpose just to have an excuse to put one of these on haha.
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: zooky on August 05, 2006, 11:18:41 am
setup is $40 and $104 to produce it, thats for a one-off. If one of the vendors (or a group buy) were to order a few, the setup cost could be shared and the production should be cheaper
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: MaxHedrm on August 05, 2006, 11:37:25 am
What about the varying thicknesses? Would he just go with the thickest, or would there be options?[/url]
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: DVST8R on August 05, 2006, 12:18:55 pm
$144USD for a one off, or like $22CDN for a 1.9  :?

As far as verying thickness the vendor should offer the 1, 2 , or 3 hole thickness's. Though I have run a 3 hole on a 1 hole spec motor and didn't notice much of a differance (mostly just in starting it) The problem with verying the thickness too much is that you start to play with the squish area and that is just a whole nother barrell of monkeys.
Title: HG
Post by: zooky on August 05, 2006, 12:33:42 pm
how do you modify the 1.9 HG?
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: Master ACiD on August 05, 2006, 12:52:24 pm
these engines have a funny squish. the angle is basically zero. on most engines the squish has an angle. that is, the squish gap gets bigger the closer you get to the centre of the piston.

i wonder if a custom set of pistons which have a proper squish geometry and a hemisperical dome cut into the middle of the piston top would be beneficial. i dont know if theres enough room to work with though, sence idi needs such high compression to start. maybe if proper squish pistons were made with the right thickness headgasket then the idi would not need such high compression.
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on August 05, 2006, 03:15:48 pm
Damn, I got  played $160 for my last disposable fiber guaranteed to fail gasket....
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: 935racer on August 05, 2006, 04:31:37 pm
I actually made a small run (4) of copper headgaskets about 3 months ago from a shop here locally, copper gaskets can be reused, and I could get them in different thicknesses as well. The thing is though, that a 1.9 HG with some goo and even just the stock stretch bolts hold lots of boost, like brett said, his hit 40 psi, and I think he had it set at 35 for daily driving, with the 1.9 gasket and headstuds, I woudl say the seal is good for 50psi+, but this is given that the block and head deck are STRAIGHT! That right there is the #1 reason for HG failure.

SO whos interested? :D
Title: What is the difference between the 1.6 and 1.9 head gasket?
Post by: larry104 on August 05, 2006, 07:55:45 pm
I have a hydraulic head Ecodiesel and I'm about to remove the head and replace the gasket. It's not blown, but I'm intalled a TD pump and plan to run up the boost and don't want to take any chances. I'll be using stretch bolts. Also, one more question. Where can I get a tool to remove the head bolts? It looks like a Torx, but not quite. Thank you.
Title: Re: HG
Post by: zooky on August 05, 2006, 08:28:24 pm
Quote from: libbybapa
Quote from: zooky
how do you modify the 1.9 HG?


You don't if it's going in a hyd motot.  It's a direct fit.

Andrew


how about a 1.9 HD onto a mechanical 1.6?
Title: Re: What is the difference between the 1.6 and 1.9 head gask
Post by: 935racer on August 05, 2006, 09:21:50 pm
Quote from: larry104
I have a hydraulic head Ecodiesel and I'm about to remove the head and replace the gasket. It's not blown, but I'm intalled a TD pump and plan to run up the boost and don't want to take any chances. I'll be using stretch bolts. Also, one more question. Where can I get a tool to remove the head bolts? It looks like a Torx, but not quite. Thank you.


Its triple square, NOT TORX, same style your cv bolts are.
Title: Re: What is the difference between the 1.6 and 1.9 head gask
Post by: larry104 on August 05, 2006, 09:30:17 pm
Quote from: 935racer

Its triple square, NOT TORX, same style your cv bolts are.


Actually, my inner cv bolts are 6 mm socket head cap screws. Where would I get a triple square tool bit for a 3/8 or 1/2 drive ratchet? Thank you.
Title: Re: What is the difference between the 1.6 and 1.9 head gask
Post by: 935racer on August 05, 2006, 09:31:57 pm
Quote from: larry104
Quote from: 935racer

Its triple square, NOT TORX, same style your cv bolts are.


Actually, my inner cv bolts are 6 mm socket head cap screws. Where would I get a triple square tool bit for a 3/8 or 1/2 drive ratchet? Thank you.


I have seen those, they are aftermarket not factory hardware, Any good tool store should have triple square tools.
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on August 06, 2006, 02:13:27 pm
Its triple square, NOT TORX, same style your cv bolts are.

 :D Here's a funny thing: :D
A Torx [is it 12mmIIRC?] DOES fit and torque the head bolts.
Even though they ARE a tri-square. I know this because I've done it.  A crud filled head with gooed up bolts looked like 6pt to me on my first 'new' head post allen key back in the '80's. Only after removal and inspection did I discover 12 pt needed. Didn't buy a 12 pt for years (never saw one!).
 [I do have one now though  :oops: ]

the the axle bolts tri square 6mm is it? is different and the torx does not fit. Which is strange as it ought to be a scaled down version ( to do with torx teeth not being scaled down linearly)  However a damaged axle bolt can be removed by hammering in a torx which will deepen/widen its 6 grooves.....Twilight Zone over... :shock:
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: tylernt on August 06, 2006, 06:41:51 pm
Yeah, my aftermarket CV bolts were allens. They are now covered with a thick coating of RUST. :evil: Next time I'm getting the real VW bolts!

I tried to use a Torx to remove my head bolts. Bad idea, I stripped two and had to DRILL them out. Yuck! I went through like three drill bits. I had a hard time finding a 12mm 12-point bit, finally found some online when I started searching for "triplesquare", I think I finally got mine from from Snap-on or someplace like that.

The 8mm, I think I actually got at a local tool shop. It's not a chain store so that probably doesn't help you, sorry.
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: zooky on August 07, 2006, 06:51:38 am
me too, I just want a metal gasket for my mechanical motor
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: larry104 on August 07, 2006, 07:48:44 am
So a 1.9 gasket is metal and the 1.6 is fiber , correct? I like the idea of using a metal gasket, and copper would be ideal. I use copper gaskets on my motorcycle heads and they work great. My 92 hydraulic-head eco uses a 3-hole fiber gasket. Obviously, fiber will squish more than a steel or copper when the head is torqued down. Does anyone have the gasket/piston-protusion specs for a 1.9 metal gasket?
Title: 1.6TD copper head gasket
Post by: veeman on August 07, 2006, 08:52:03 am
I'd potentially be interested in one for my 1.6 mechanical head.  I thought about using a 1.9 metal gasket as people have done, but I'm a little hesitant to cut plugs and try to match thicknesses / crush heights between materials.

Any chance you can price the per unit price factored out over runs of 5, 10, 15, 20 gaskets?  

That'd probably make the decision easier for people if they can compare the costs and we can see how many people we need on board.