VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: BellCityDubber on May 29, 2006, 11:15:47 am
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Here's how the problem began....
I had to take a friend home to Toronto after a long weekend of doing an engine swap in his new mk1 rabbit...
on the way there, my alt. light blipped on and off twice, but no more than a second... and for the remainder of the ride we discussed our hypothesis as to why that happened. I dropped him off and on the way back home, my tach and alternator light were going crazy...
I knew it was my alternator belt at that point.
I checked my alternator belt and I see that it could stand to be replaced. the car is drivable, but not for long periods of time. (no 400 series for me) :'(
The car in question: 91 MF code jetta TD w/ power steering & A/C
The bentley has little to no information about belt tensioning or routing diagrams for our diesel cars :(
from what I can tell, I have to take off my crank to A/C compressor belt before I can get at my alternator belt. I know how to do belts on a 8v gas engine, but the alternator doesnt have the toothed bracket thing, and I now have to contend with the A/C Compressor.
can anyone tell me how to move/remove the AC or a procedure to remove the crank/AC belt to get at the alternator belt, and how to re-tension said belts...
from my research I take it the A/C-alternator belt for my specific application is a 9.5x695mm belt (p/n 068 903 137 AQ)
is this correct? I don't really want to call the dealership as they'd probally screw it all up.
TIA
phil
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Well sadly I have already boxed up my A/C-alt belt or I could tell you the size. I think mine was a 10mm though, so 9.5mm should work.
Yes, you need to pull the outboard crank->A/C->waterpump belt off before you can get to the alternator belt. Annoying. I suppose you could actually remove the alternator entirely, then you wouldn't have to mess with the A/C belt. Not sure which would be worse!
If you do want to take the outboard belt off, the A/C swings down after you loosen two bolts on the lower bracket. To tension it, pry on the A/C with a large tool then tighten the bolts. Helps to have three hands. The alternator belt is the same, pry on the alternator and tighten the bolt.
A lot of us have had problems with the alt-A/C belts, so here are some related posts:
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4601
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4761
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4893
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4567
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Alot of that looks like mk1 info, and even moreso, they're retrofitting the alternator bracket...
here's a crude diagram of my belts
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/dubdiesel/belts.jpg)
I can see how to get the alternator belt off, (the idler tension screw on the bracket)
but I need to get both the crank/waterpump/ac belt AND the crank/power steering belts off as they're the topmost and the AC/Alt belt is the bottom most.
are there other tensioner bolts on the AC or the power steering? I know the waterpump is fixed...
can anyone clarify this for me?
and does anyone know the belt sizes for all 3?
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Huh, I've never seen an idler on the alternator belt before, so I can't comment on that. Yes the waterpump is fixed and the A/C adjusts, and I've never had P/S before but I believe there is an adjustment on the P/S unit somewhere. And since you have P/S the aforementioned trick of removing the A/C and using a longer belt crank-waterpump-alt probably will not work.
For belt sizes I usually just pop into autozone.com and look them up there.
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tylernt
congrats you have the nightmare belt set up. there are three belts
crank,waterpump,powersteering. crank, waterpump, a/c/ and a/c alt,idler
each one of these has a bolt/threaded rod tensioner and locking/holding bolts There should be no prying to get belts tightened
you do have to remove the crank,waterpump, a/c belt to change the alternater belt.
The alternaters have a history of being misaligned so triple check them I have had to shim a few in the past to prevent premature belt wear.
I agree with you the dealer does ussually screw things up then charges you for them to learn how to fix it (if they can fix it)
Kevin L
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each one of these has a bolt/threaded rod tensioner and locking/holding bolts There should be no prying to get belts tightened
Ooh, I like the sound of that! Can these tensioner ystems be retrofitted onto A1s? It would be really nice to not have to pry.
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Kevin
I am the one with the nightmare belt setup in question. You indicate in your sig that you have a 1990 correct? does it have the same v-belt setup? are you familiar with these tension and locking bolts? Can you inform me of their location?
and do you know anything regarding the belt sizes for the required V-belts?
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BellCityDubber
Sorry for the name confusion. I have actually removed my a/c so mine will look a little different. Respacing my alt. was a few trial and errors too I thought the bently showed how/where to adjust these belts
Anyway
For the alt you loosen the idler pulley bolt just enough to allow it to move them on the mount right at the front there is a 13mm bolt to adjust with,it is in such a position that you can only use a wrench. When you find it it will all make sense. The a/c tension is simmilar but I believe you have to loosen 2 locking bolts one on either side before adjusting I have found these adjusters always to be seized a little on every "new"used car I had so it's a good idea to remove them, clean them up an use anti seize when time permits. The power steering is done from below and pretty clear to see once your down under
Hope this helps
If my power steering ever has trouble I will be going with a manual rack and one belt for water pump and alt. Less belts--less trouble
Kevin L
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Thanks kev
it's slowly starting to make a little more sence...
I have this post up on a few sites, becuase I know that when I'm finished I'm going to do a walkthru the bentley forgot.
I have both the book and have the electronic versions. and neither of them talk about the 3 v-belt setup
you wouldnt happen to know the sizes of the belts?? the parts program calls for a 9.5x695belt but someone on tdi club recommends a 10x685 for the ac/alt belt.
does anyone know what the crank/water/ac belt is? or the crank/ps pump belt is?
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According to Autozone.com, the crank -> W/P -> A/C belt is a 17375. The crank -> W/P -> P/S is 15290. The A/C -> alt -> idler is 13275.
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According to Autozone.com, the crank -> W/P -> A/C belt is a 17375. The crank -> W/P -> P/S is 15290. The A/C -> alt -> idler is 13275.
hmm...
we don't have autozone in canada.. is this an international numbering system? what manufacturer are these?
this leaves a lot to question... you listed the following
crank - w/p - a/c
crank - w/p - p/s
and
a/c - alt - idler
where as the w/p pulley has only one v-belt groove
it should go as follows
crank - w/p - a/c
crank - p/s
and
ac - alt - idler
thanks tho :D I appricate your help and effort in locating these belt sizes
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The belt numbering system here is really messed up. The last three numbers are the circumference of the belt in tenths of inches. So 27.5 inches for the alt belt. The preceeding numbers are the width of the belt in mm, so 13mm for the alt belt. 13mmx27.5in = 13275. Weird huh?
As to the P/S belt not going through a double pulley on the W/P, I guess I was thinking of A1s again. Autozone may be wrong about that belt, then. Hard to say. The brands are Gatorback, Duralast, and Valucraft.
Around here the auto parts stores all have databases, so if you tell them your car they can look it up and tell you what belts you need.
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Around here the auto parts stores all have databases, so if you tell them your car they can look it up and tell you what belts you need.
yea, that's a really messed up numbering system... and yea, that belt setup sounds unfamiliar to my application
as for "databases".. I've always had weird cars that arent in the databases... I think I'm just going to order the belts from vw, and if they aint right... I can always blame them and say "you guys have etka and you cant work it?"
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I wish I had owned this car originally, because the previous owner decided to hack up the bracket that holds the AC, alternator and tensioner for the AC and alternator..... My belt from crank, to water pump to ac is 38 ", this belt should be on non AC cars, but ok thats fine, the biggest problem is my ac to alternator belt..... it's not a vw belt, because it's 22.5 ", and the smallest VW V-belt is 25" :evil:
So right now I'm just going to grab a short belt, throw it on, and take apart my other bracket to mount onto this car, to by pass the ac.....
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Having only one pully on the w/p doesen't sound right for what I've seen before with p/s but who knows what VW was doing at the time or what happened before you got the car
As for sizes they seem to be different for each individual car i have had. they all inter relate and if one is on the large end of the adjustment the others seem to have to be smaller. In the end i took a rope and put it in place of the belt clamped it together to best aprox belt size then went to my regular parts suppler (napa) and purchase belts larger and smaller than the rope then used only the ones that fit and returned the others. My parts guy understands and works on what I need not what the book tells him should be .
Try going to Canadian T and order spark plugs for you 90 TD 1.6 or a lower radiator hose for your 1970 super beetle and I'm going to bet they say OK Sir does that car have A/C
I'll try to get a pic or two of the set up I am currently running and belt sizes but that wouldn't be till Monday
Kevin L
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I have a 37.5 " belt running from the water pump to the crank, to the AC
The other belt is 26" and that runs from the AC to the Alternator, I had to re rig my bolts on my ac, but it's all good now, I finally can drive my car again
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It's good to see all this different information on all the different types of v-belts on all the cars....
too bad the bentley didnt account for this :P
I managed to get my alternator belt changed, and I did a retension after my test run, and now it's doing it again :evil: :shock: :(
it seems when I get the car up at 3krpms the belt will just slip and I get the alt. light and the tach drops...
could this be symptoms of a dying alternator or a bad idler bearing or something???
I've found this post
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1925&highlight=alternator
and those are exactly my symptoms...
I think I need a new alternator..
:cry:
SATURDAY UPDATE
this morning, I decided to wake up early and go to the junkers.... making the assumption that they'd have SOMETHING....
so I get up, call around, and the only answer I get is "yeh we gotz sum dem der volkswagen diesels - bring `er by so we can match sumtin' up" :roll:
as much to my dismay, I have no other option at this time... so out comes the alternator and off I go to the junkers.... the first place had a early diesel, but the alternator wires werent the same.... and the rest were gas alternators and one of the shelf didn't have a W terminal on it...
so off I went to the second junkers.
in I went with the alternator, someone handed me off to somebody else and into the stock shelves we went.... and she was looking thru ford and chev and import alternators.... and in the box at the bottom in the far corner I reach in. pull one out. and go
" I GOT IT! "
45 bucks later....
it rains...
more to this story when the rain stops.
----- POST RAIN UPDATE -----
Alright, so the used alt. is in. and works, it charges but now, my tach doesnt work :shock:
all the connections are the same and everything, except that the orientation of the connection points for the wires were not the same.. but it DOES put out 14v, so I'm happy
it seems it was my brushes all along.... does anyone know what's going on with the W terminal / Tachometer and why it doesnt seem to be working??
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Moved to troubleshooting. IDI engine is for power enhancement related discussion only.